The Lamar offseason talk thread

[diamondbull424]

49 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

Benefiting the WR room is benefitting the team overall, though. Lamar signing a big deal would benefit himself, and I think we both know the difference there and you trying to use "QB Room" is just trying to wordplay around the point.

If you are taking a deal lower than your value to help any other part of the team, that, by definition, is a team friendly deal.

This is my last post on this because:

1. I don't care this much to keep arguing semantics
2. Joe Burrow isn't taking a team friendly deal idc what anyone says

1) You’re already opening up with the assumption that to retain his weapons he would need to take a deal below his value though. Do you not agree that both things can be true?

That he can sign a record deal and still have an understanding of the Bengals cap and his team influence enough to ensure/leverage that cap space goes to his weapons?

2) I agree with this point. Dude is viewed like a god in Cincy, I’d bet he’s the only other QB to do a 10 year deal… I think he’s going to be targeting surpassing the Mahomes deal, same as Lamar targeting the Watson deal.

3) I can see all the QBs waiting until after Lamar signs, see if they can go from 50% guarantees up to 75-80% guarantees because that’s the new precedent… at least that would be the smart way to play it… and Burrow sounds like he’s got a strategy in mind already and analyzing the long game.

Plus all of them are targeting extensions, so they can keep negotiating into the season no problem, no true rush to be the first to sign… they can only benefit from the Lamar deal in their negotiations IMO.

If anything the Derek Carr contract could show something. If Carr signs a Kirk Cousins style fully guaranteed deal with lower APY, then that could be an interesting monkey wrench thrown into this scenario.

Edited March 2, 2023 by diamondbull424

[Ray Reed]

 

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

1 hour ago, Ray Reed said:

 

we've heard this a million times before. It does nothing for me at this point.

[diamondbull424]

8 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

we've heard this a million times before. It does nothing for me at this point.

I think the important thing here is that Lamar wants to be here and is negotiating to be here. Guys like Campbell understand that and is probably part of the reason he is willing to return.

Lamar and the team haven’t been negotiating on this deal for very long. I think as fans we shouldn’t expect resolution to this until June or July. This isn’t something that’s going to be resolved overnight, it’s a lot of money and as someone that negotiates smaller contracts on a daily/weekly basis and has to be the middle man between owners/managers and customers in facilitating a deal both sides can be happy with… I don’t envy the position EDC is in, however both sides want to get a deal done.

Bisciotti is the party that I’m most concerned with here. What’s his huge beef with guaranteed cash, if the economy was booming would he have any issue? Is his business dealings outside the NFL experiencing some setbacks?

But from a team friendly standpoint, giving Lamar a lower contract, but fully guaranteed would be about the friendliest deal we could do.

But if he doesn’t “have it like that atm” it can also make sense why he would want to recoil a bit from that proposition.

I wonder if he could go the Knicks/Jordan route and offer Lamar a stake in his business in lieu of some guarantees. There are rumors that Mahomes minority stake in the KC Royals was apart of the contract facilitation to get him earning more beyond his deal… not sure if that’s legitimately true or not.

But if Lamar wants to be a billionaire, Bisciotti setting him up with some stock options might be another way to get this deal done.

But that would assume that Bisciotti believes in Lamar as the QB of his organization.

[ThatJaxxenGuy]

6 hours ago, diamondbull424 said:

I think the important thing here is that Lamar wants to be here and is negotiating to be here. Guys like Campbell understand that and is probably part of the reason he is willing to return.

Lamar and the team haven’t been negotiating on this deal for very long. I think as fans we shouldn’t expect resolution to this until June or July. This isn’t something that’s going to be resolved overnight, it’s a lot of money and as someone that negotiates smaller contracts on a daily/weekly basis and has to be the middle man between owners/managers and customers in facilitating a deal both sides can be happy with… I don’t envy the position EDC is in, however both sides want to get a deal done.

Bisciotti is the party that I’m most concerned with here. What’s his huge beef with guaranteed cash, if the economy was booming would he have any issue? Is his business dealings outside the NFL experiencing some setbacks?

But from a team friendly standpoint, giving Lamar a lower contract, but fully guaranteed would be about the friendliest deal we could do.

But if he doesn’t “have it like that atm” it can also make sense why he would want to recoil a bit from that proposition.

I wonder if he could go the Knicks/Jordan route and offer Lamar a stake in his business in lieu of some guarantees. There are rumors that Mahomes minority stake in the KC Royals was apart of the contract facilitation to get him earning more beyond his deal… not sure if that’s legitimately true or not.

But if Lamar wants to be a billionaire, Bisciotti setting him up with some stock options might be another way to get this deal done.

But that would assume that Bisciotti believes in Lamar as the QB of his organization.

I think Biscotti and most owners hate the idea of guaranteed money because they have to have it sitting in escrow as a liquidated cash flow when they make these contracts but they’d rather have it invested in assets in order to be generating more money. this would likely be an issue with any player on the team who wanted full guarantees, not that it necessarily indicates a Lamar problem.

 

that being said I do have to wonder how fully Biscotti buys in. Thankfully, time will reveal all 

Edited March 4, 2023 by ThatJaxxenGuy

[Ray Reed]

8 hours ago, diamondbull424 said:

I think the important thing here is that Lamar wants to be here and is negotiating to be here. Guys like Campbell understand that and is probably part of the reason he is willing to return.

Lamar and the team haven’t been negotiating on this deal for very long. I think as fans we shouldn’t expect resolution to this until June or July. This isn’t something that’s going to be resolved overnight, it’s a lot of money and as someone that negotiates smaller contracts on a daily/weekly basis and has to be the middle man between owners/managers and customers in facilitating a deal both sides can be happy with… I don’t envy the position EDC is in, however both sides want to get a deal done.

Bisciotti is the party that I’m most concerned with here. What’s his huge beef with guaranteed cash, if the economy was booming would he have any issue? Is his business dealings outside the NFL experiencing some setbacks?

But from a team friendly standpoint, giving Lamar a lower contract, but fully guaranteed would be about the friendliest deal we could do.

But if he doesn’t “have it like that atm” it can also make sense why he would want to recoil a bit from that proposition.

I wonder if he could go the Knicks/Jordan route and offer Lamar a stake in his business in lieu of some guarantees. There are rumors that Mahomes minority stake in the KC Royals was apart of the contract facilitation to get him earning more beyond his deal… not sure if that’s legitimately true or not.

But if Lamar wants to be a billionaire, Bisciotti setting him up with some stock options might be another way to get this deal done.

But that would assume that Bisciotti believes in Lamar as the QB of his organization.

This is what I genuinely think the holdup is. I just don't think Biscotti wants to guarantee Lamar a contract where he's costing the team $50mil a year in 2027, 2028, etc. because I don't think he believes that to be a good investment. His entire background with Aerotek is investing in people that he believes will be able to get the job done for him at a high level over an extended period and he can be hands off. I don't think it's a cash issue for Steve. He's the 13th richest owner in the NFL https://www.profootballnetwork.com/nfl-richest-owners-net-worth-ranked/ 

Based on comments he's made in the past about Lamar, and reading some tea-leaves with how adamant he's been about playoff success in the past (admitting he contemplated selling the team in 2018 after the playoff drought from 2015-2017), I just don't think he believes in investing in Lamar for that much $ that far down the line. And that's the thing about the fully guaranteed deal...he doesn't want to be paying Lamar 50mil+ in seasons where he's not contributing to the team because of injury, regression, etc. It hamstrings him and the team into significantly committing to a guy long term and ties their hands from potentially moving on if he wants to see changes.

 

Edited March 4, 2023 by Ray Reed

[Ray Reed]

1 hour ago, ThatJaxxenGuy said:

I think Biscotti and most owners hate the idea of guaranteed money because they have to have it sitting in escrow as a liquidated cash flow when they make these contracts but they’d rather have it invested in assets in order to be generating more money. this would likely be an issue with any player on the team who wanted full guarantees, not that it necessarily indicates a Lamar problem.

 

that being said I do have to wonder how fully Biscotti buys in. Thankfully, time will reveal all 

By all accounts, everyone around the org - including the players themselves - believe that Biscotti is fully in on spending money on/for the team. 

Quote

The players do believe in Ravens owner Steve Biscotti’s commitment to high quality, as 100% of them believe he is willing to invest in upgrades to the facility.

https://nflpa.com/baltimore-ravens-report-card 

 

Edited March 4, 2023 by Ray Reed

[Ray Reed]

 

[ThatJaxxenGuy]

1 hour ago, Ray Reed said:

By all accounts, everyone around the org - including the players themselves - believe that Biscotti is fully in on spending money on/for the team. 

https://nflpa.com/baltimore-ravens-report-card 

 

I should clarify that I meant buys into Lamar as our QB, not buys into investing in the team.

[diamondbull424]

6 hours ago, ThatJaxxenGuy said:

I think Biscotti and most owners hate the idea of guaranteed money because they have to have it sitting in escrow as a liquidated cash flow when they make these contracts but they’d rather have it invested in assets in order to be generating more money. this would likely be an issue with any player on the team who wanted full guarantees, not that it necessarily indicates a Lamar problem.

 

that being said I do have to wonder how fully Biscotti buys in. Thankfully, time will reveal all 

That is absolutely true. Good point. And from a player standpoint they probably also would love to have it invested too.

I think if Bisciotti wants to retain Lamar, but doesn’t want to pay such guarantees, there are ways to get creative here.

Stock options from the Orioles that Bisciotti provides Lamar, under the table of course. On the surface, we would all see reported by the media… “Lamar Jackson becomes part investor with his new $300m deal in the Baltimore Orioles” and maybe he throws out a baseball or something and everything is hunky dory.

[diamondbull424]

5 hours ago, Ray Reed said:

This is what I genuinely think the holdup is. I just don't think Biscotti wants to guarantee Lamar a contract where he's costing the team $50mil a year in 2027, 2028, etc. because I don't think he believes that to be a good investment. His entire background with Aerotek is investing in people that he believes will be able to get the job done for him at a high level over an extended period and he can be hands off. I don't think it's a cash issue for Steve. He's the 13th richest owner in the NFL https://www.profootballnetwork.com/nfl-richest-owners-net-worth-ranked/ 

Based on comments he's made in the past about Lamar, and reading some tea-leaves with how adamant he's been about playoff success in the past (admitting he contemplated selling the team in 2018 after the playoff drought from 2015-2017), I just don't think he believes in investing in Lamar for that much $ that far down the line. And that's the thing about the fully guaranteed deal...he doesn't want to be paying Lamar 50mil+ in seasons where he's not contributing to the team because of injury, regression, etc. It hamstrings him and the team into significantly committing to a guy long term and ties their hands from potentially moving on if he wants to see changes.

 

Yeah if Bisciotti bought into Lamar legitimately, there should be no question whether Lamar should be getting as much guaranteed as the sexual predator Watson IMO.

Especially if such an investment meant saving cap space overall and dollars overall. That’s how we normally like to do things. Get the “hometown discount” by the players for “believing in them” with guaranteed dollars.
 

Conversely it does feel like EDC and Harbaugh (IMO) both genuinely believe in Lamar though, like they legitimately believe he’s the guy. I don’t think they’re capping his overall ability to progress as a passer or capping on their love for/relationship with him.

Have no idea, but I get the sense that it’s sort of like they both believe in Lamar and are both so fervent in their beliefs while Bisciotti is sort of lukewarm on Lamar, yet believes in them enough that he’s like… well if you guys say so then maybe I’d be willing to do x, y, and z… but that’s it… and that maybe if this continues into June/July that it might come down to the good ole “well do you believe enough in Lamar to bet your job on him?”

… Only I like to imagine this scene with Bisciotti as a mob boss sitting around a table with other goons, all in black hats, with him making a thinly veiled threat that he’s going to have both Harbaugh and EDC deleted if they don’t bring him a SB with Lamar if he hands out these record guarantees. 😂

[wackywabbit]

We've finally reached the week where actual news is going to happen on this front!!!

It's possible a deal gets done in the next 48 hours, but probably not. Tuesday we get to see which tag the Ravens use (exclusive or non). I still think exclusive is more likely, but I'm NOT going to be shocked if it is non-exclusive. As radical as it sounds, I think that will help the chances of getting the Lamar deal ironed out and resolved, but it has significant risk from a team making an offer the Ravens won't hit (It would be the Falcons, like I said before everyone else was talking about them). But, my locked in stance is that Lamar wants to be here and the Ravens want him here, which means he will have a new deal here in the next 9 days. 

No more noise, we are less than 48 hours from actual news 🙌

[diamondbull424]

1 hour ago, wackywabbit said:

We've finally reached the week where actual news is going to happen on this front!!!

It's possible a deal gets done in the next 48 hours, but probably not. Tuesday we get to see which tag the Ravens use (exclusive or non). I still think exclusive is more likely, but I'm NOT going to be shocked if it is non-exclusive. As radical as it sounds, I think that will help the chances of getting the Lamar deal ironed out and resolved, but it has significant risk from a team making an offer the Ravens won't hit (It would be the Falcons, like I said before everyone else was talking about them). But, my locked in stance is that Lamar wants to be here and the Ravens want him here, which means he will have a new deal here in the next 9 days. 

No more noise, we are less than 48 hours from actual news 🙌

Agreed. The media (especially ESPN) and their hypebeasting around this Lamar contract has been pathetic.

They legit haven’t had any legitimate bit of news this whole time outside of MAYBE the “best offer” news and even that is skeptical when you consider the fact that EDC stated in the combine interviews that the franchise tag deadline was only a “soft” deadline.

So the phrasing and usage of “best offer” makes it sound as though the Ravens offered a “take it or leave it” deal. However if true, then why would such a deal still be getting “feedback” from Lamar’s “camp”? Also why would such a deal be offered at the “soft deadline” and not further along closer towards the “hard deadline” in July?

So even this report sounds a lot like a source said, “they offered their best deal yet but both sides still seem far apart.” Which presents an entirely different connotation than the direction ESPN’s hypebeasting has taken it into. That hypothetical phrasing would simply connote that both sides are negotiating with one another. While the hypebeasting allows for a more dramatic interpretation; suddenly if this deal isn’t signed, negotiations are over and a trade is the only logical course of action to rectify the situation.

It’s been really pathetic reporting. At this point I’d rather get my news from YouTubers than these media machines.

[wackywabbit]

30 minutes ago, diamondbull424 said:

Agreed. The media (especially ESPN) and their hypebeasting around this Lamar contract has been pathetic.

They legit haven’t had any legitimate bit of news this whole time outside of MAYBE the “best offer” news and even that is skeptical when you consider the fact that EDC stated in the combine interviews that the franchise tag deadline was only a “soft” deadline.

So the phrasing and usage of “best offer” makes it sound as though the Ravens offered a “take it or leave it” deal. However if true, then why would such a deal still be getting “feedback” from Lamar’s “camp”? Also why would such a deal be offered at the “soft deadline” and not further along closer towards the “hard deadline” in July?

So even this report sounds a lot like a source said, “they offered their best deal yet but both sides still seem far apart.” Which presents an entirely different connotation than the direction ESPN’s hypebeasting has taken it into. That hypothetical phrasing would simply connote that both sides are negotiating with one another. While the hypebeasting allows for a more dramatic interpretation; suddenly if this deal isn’t signed, negotiations are over and a trade is the only logical course of action to rectify the situation.

It’s been really pathetic reporting. At this point I’d rather get my news from YouTubers than these media machines.

The video above is the source. There is nothing being said at all either way if you listen to the literal words from the reporter.

There was never going to be any news the last couple weeks. We WILL have something to talk about on Tuesday.

[baltimoreRebel]

On 3/3/2023 at 4:02 PM, diamondbull424 said:

Lamar and the team haven’t been negotiating on this deal for very long. I think as fans we shouldn’t expect resolution to this until June or July. This isn’t something that’s going to be resolved overnight, it’s a lot of money and as someone that negotiates smaller contracts on a daily/weekly basis and has to be the middle man between owners/managers and customers in facilitating a deal both sides can be happy with… I don’t envy the position EDC is in, however both sides want to get a deal done. 

I don't think that makes much sense at all considering all of the ambiguity that would surround our team headed into Free agency and the draft. I'd expect some type of resolution prior to the draft. I think it's either a deal gets done or Lamar is sent packing for picks in this upcoming draft and beyond. 

This negotiation is essentially a pair of handcuffs on our hands and feet moving forward. Figuring it out in June or July? I don't think so.