RavensfanRD Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 1 hour ago, M.10.E said: League mvp 3 years ago and hasn’t finished the last two regular seasons costing us playoff opportunities. It ain’t like he’s walking out the door after just winning an MVP. He looks to be going down the Cam Newton path and not the Pat Mahomes path. That is true it was 3 years ago, but pretty hard going down the Pat Mahomes path with a psychopath at OC and less than at skill positions. (This man called a FB screen, in real life, on 3rd and 20) Injuries do look concerning, but with the new context about Steve Saunders and company, I'm not so inclined to go straight to injury prone Lamar. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RavensfanRD Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 3 minutes ago, DreamKid said: Never said Lamar and DJ's value was remotely comparable, merely pointed out how people applaud the 'nobility' of Lamar's quest for a historic deal- but deride Jones seeking one commensurate with his own station. You proved my point. Probably because DJ had one decent year and asking for 45 mill whereas LJ8 has been consistently fighting for the AFC North and #1 Seed in spite of being injured the last two years. Because Daniel Jones asking for a bag (all though his absolute right) is pretty insane, lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatJaxxenGuy Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 I really hope something just happens soon. This is now ugly and needs to be resolved Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamKid Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 1 minute ago, RavensfanRD said: Probably because DJ had one decent year and asking for 45 mill whereas LJ8 has been consistently fighting for the AFC North and #1 Seed in spite of being injured the last two years. Because Daniel Jones asking for a bag (all though his absolute right) is pretty insane, lol. That's the thing, all of this pro Lamar slant to the point where his regression, injuries, etc are ignored is all predicated upon sports media pundits being in favor of players maximizing their worth. So why celebrate one player doing it and not another? It's not about Lamar's talent vs Daniel Jones' talent. It's about a dishonest framing of their(the pundits') positions. The NFLPA feels like Lamar's contract negotiations are a hail mary shot at changing the landscape for fully guaranteed contracts in the NFL. So all these former players and all the other talking heads in service to the NFLPA have made coverage of the negotiation as insufferable and one sided as possible. They aren't good people who just want to see a player win against his club, cause if they were they'd also support Daniel Jones and every other player seeking their own bump. They have an agenda. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamKid Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diamondbull424 Posted March 7, 2023 Author Share Posted March 7, 2023 (edited) 8 hours ago, DreamKid said: Any predictions? I'll go with the exclusive franchise tag, and Lamar liking a bunch of incoherent tweets attacking the club. Part of my thinks they go the non-exclusive route because it would allow for most beneficial cap position and wouldn’t prohibit the squad from doing offseason stuff… However that could kill the trust, right now negotiations are all quiet and internal. Everything else is ESPN noise. If you open that up, you present the prospect for feelings getting hurt. The exclusive tag would force any team to remain “quiet” which is what I’m sure both Lamar and the Ravens would prefer. So I’ll go exclusive for that main reason of keeping things private. Keep the media guessing and keep all conversations internal (as much as possible). I don’t think we do much in free agency anyway and so we can restructure deals to get Lamar in under the exclusive tag and then restructure them later if we do a beneficial long term deal. 7 hours ago, DreamKid said: Never said Lamar and DJ's value was remotely comparable, merely pointed out how people applaud the 'nobility' of Lamar's quest for a historic deal- but deride Jones seeking one commensurate with his own station. You proved my point. I get your point, but while people will say the MVP season was years ago, it still was the 2nd best Adjusted Value season of all time. Then 2020 was still a quite good 18 AV season. Then both 2021 and 2022 there were points where Lamar had inserted himself into the MVP conversation, only to have his consistency suffer during the course of the season. 1) New offensive system could assist that. 2) New QB coach could also potentially assist in that, it’s weird that each season Lamar’s mechanics would begin to suffer as he was around James Urban. Clearly there must’ve been some disconnect there and there’s hope that this could improve and the consistency could be reached. 3) On the injury front, without Saunders, there’s also hope that guys end up seeing less injuries as well. Durability was never a question for Lamar coming out and the same for many players, yet he’s been injured within the pocket during routine plays. I say all this to acknowledge that Lamar has battles towards improvement, but that improvement shows a consistent MVP peak, regardless of the season. Daniel Jones is wholly potential, the assumption is that perhaps under Daboll he might be a capable starting QB, yet is that worth $40m? There is and should be a large gap between capable and elite. Whether Lamar is an elite passer or not, doesn’t limit the fact that his impact on the field has been elite at various points every season. Particularly early on when he’s fresh off of working with his QB coach in the summer. If we get MVP level Lamar and keep him healthy, that’s a definite path to the playoffs and potentially more, can Daniel Jones say the same? So he should take all the money he can get, especially since IIRC the Giants didn’t believe in him enough to give him the 5th year of $23m, so why should he take a deal they give him vs assessing what the market is willing to pay him? I don’t disagree with both players seeking to get theirs, but this feels like two wildly different scenarios with two wildly different values. DJ feels like a $25-30m value type of guy based off what he has shown to this point so $40m is an absurd differential, while Lamar IMO should be something more like a $45-50m type of value, it doesn’t sound like he’s asking for $60m which would be the equivalent with Jones. Lamar is simply asking for guaranteed dollars and I don’t find anything wrong with that if it saves the Ravens cap space. People say “Lamar isn’t worth it” but yet are willing to pay $48-49m as long as it’s not guaranteed. Either way if we have to end this deal because Lamar couldn’t remain healthy or whatever, we’re screwed. I don’t mind being “more screwed” in the pessimistic reality if the trade off is that under the other more optimistic reality, we benefit greatly with a nice discounted deal. So idk I don’t see the Jackson vs Jones comparison. But whatever the market is willing to pay makes sense to me in both circumstances, though if Jones gets $40m that would be quite interesting. Edited March 7, 2023 by diamondbull424 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diamondbull424 Posted March 7, 2023 Author Share Posted March 7, 2023 7 hours ago, ThatJaxxenGuy said: I really hope something just happens soon. This is now ugly and needs to be resolved Idk if it is ugly. I think it’s only ugly from the perspective of the media driven narratives creating Ravens fan hysteria. Like the reports of “Ravens expected to trade Lamar” maybe, but I doubt that’s based on anything of substance. Sounds more like team gossip than anything. No one knows anything so everyone is gossiping IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.10.E Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 (edited) 8 hours ago, RavensfanRD said: That is true it was 3 years ago, but pretty hard going down the Pat Mahomes path with a psychopath at OC and less than at skill positions. (This man called a FB screen, in real life, on 3rd and 20) Injuries do look concerning, but with the new context about Steve Saunders and company, I'm not so inclined to go straight to injury prone Lamar. I have no problem paying him the next in line deal that's higher than Kyler/Russ, but he's acting like he's Mahomes. He can try to get all the money he wants and I understand that, but when you ask for that kinda money, I don't wanna hear any excuses. Edited March 7, 2023 by M.10.E Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.10.E Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 I do think the only chance we have of keeping Lamar is the non-exclusive tag. If he gets an exclusive tag I think a trade is 99% the outcome. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Reed Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 (edited) 13 hours ago, RavensfanRD said: Pretty amazing to me to see folks be so cavalier with losing a league MVP in his mid 20s. If Lamar Jackson walks for two 1st round picks, someone should be immediately fired. Ravens backed themselves in an unnecessary corner with a generational talent, but they've always done business like this. The only difference is that Flacco put it on their forehead in '12. LJ8 should've been given a blank check for what he's been able to do in this offense with these weapons at the skill positions. Absolutely insane this is how its gonna end. And @santiagomn8 Those are some shakey alternatives, but interesting to look at. Stroud is cool, but I'd be happier with Richardson. Brady looks washed. I'm good on Winston, but might be able to be talked into getting on board with his signing. Keep Garapalo as far away from the Ravens as possible, hard pass. Hooker is a cool. At this point, unless you're getting Stroud or Richardson, Ravens should just re-sign the man who went into business for himself (Huntley) and draft their QB next year. The answer to this is largely due to the lack of team success. The simple fact of the matter is that we've won 1 playoff game in 5 seasons with Lamar at the helm. Same # of wins in that span as teams like the Cleveland Browns and New York Giants. Whether you think that lack of meaningful success is the front office's fault, Lamar's fault, or a combo of both is entirely up to the individual, but the fact is that's not nearly good enough. If we were consistently winning playoff games with Lamar, or had even gotten to a conference championship in the last 5 years I don't think people would be nearly this cavalier about it. It's just really hard for most fans of the team to get really upset about losing a player when we haven't had much meaningful success with them. It's like, what exactly are we getting upset about? Worst case we'll just continue to not win playoff games? Oh, ok. Damn. Well we weren't doing that anyway. Cam Newton was released 4 years after he won an MVP and took his team to the SB and Panthers fans weren't particularly broken up about it. It's all contextual. Edited March 7, 2023 by Ray Reed 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Reed Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 11 hours ago, DreamKid said: He's the only QB where the media frames a failure to meet his demands as some sort of moral failing on the part of the organization. A lot of the fans, too. It's beyond exhausting. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobellythrower Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 1 hour ago, Ray Reed said: he simple fact of the matter is that we've won 1 playoff game in 5 seasons with Lamar at the helm. Same # of wins in that span as teams like the Cleveland Browns and New York Giants. Whether you think that lack of meaningful success is the front office's fault, Lamar's fault, Herbert going to get paid with 1 playoff appearance and one of the biggest choke jobs in the playoffs, trading lamar for two first round pick is not a good move, whoever trades for him would just wait a week, trade down, then get lamar, or they don't have to listen to the ravens request of multiple picks and lamar would have the leverage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Reed Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 12 minutes ago, Nobellythrower said: Herbert going to get paid with 1 playoff appearance and one of the biggest choke jobs in the playoffs, trading lamar for two first round pick is not a good move, whoever trades for him would just wait a week, trade down, then get lamar, or they don't have to listen to the ravens request of multiple picks and lamar would have the leverage He's not getting a fully guaranteed deal, though, which is the entire holdup between us and Lamar. It's not like we're lowballing the guy. We've offered a ton of money. The Chargers will do the same to Herbert, and he'll take it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFlaccoSeagulls Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 Tag is all but confirmed, but we already knew this. Can't believe we weren't able to extend the ONE QB we should have extended over the past 20 years... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWil23 Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 21 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said: Tag is all but confirmed, but we already knew this. Can't believe we weren't able to extend the ONE QB we should have extended over the past 20 years... 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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