M.10.E Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 (edited) 36 minutes ago, Ray Reed said: There’s a huge difference between me advocating for a QB playing on a vet min contract and the point i’m making and I think you know that though. His reach was so outrageous I kinda respect it. Absurd. Edited February 28, 2023 by M.10.E Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wackywabbit Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 (edited) 25 minutes ago, M.10.E said: His reach was so outrageous I kinda respect it. Absurd. The benchmark is Joe Burrow's team friendly contract This reminds me of back when agents used to leak the story of players restructuring their contracts to create cap space for their teams and then they got a whole media and internet fan praise cycle for how selfless they were and how much they cared about winning with quotes from the player saying as much. Anyone else remember those stories? It seems like enough people finally figured out what the actual SPECIFIC details there were, because we don't hear those stories anymore, do we? All that was happening was that they were getting some of their guaranteed money paid sooner as a signing bonus so teams could amortize the cap hit over more years. Team friendly though... 😆 Edited February 28, 2023 by wackywabbit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Reed Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 58 minutes ago, wackywabbit said: You are already fantasizing about how selfless Burrow was for his new contract which doesn't exist yet. When has specifics been an issue for you before? No I don't. I care about specifics. If this fantasy of a QB who felt he had enough money to prioritize winning over money, that is the specific data point I want to see to believe it. Specifically, I'll allow up to $5M AAV. Like I'm being the unreasonable one when you openly admit you basing everything around buzz words like "team-friendly" 😂 1. Na, I posted a clip and commented on a clip of Jamar Chase specifically talking about his QB discussing taking less $ to keep the team around him. If that's enough to trigger you maybe stay out of the Lamar offseason discussion thread? 2. Yeah, I know you want specifics. That's why I'm going to ask specifics from KC and BUF fans. Where is this disconnect coming from? 3. Buddy, you've always been the unreasonable one when it comes to talking about Lamar Jackson. In an NFL Gen thread last year you literally spent multiple posts arguing with everyone saying Lamar's tattoo looked bad because you were so butthurt that someone would say anything negative about him. Legit took it personally that people didn't like his tattoo. Bruh. I promise you, just as you see me as unreasonable in these conversations, I see you as double that. I know what I'm getting into with your love affair with this guy lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wackywabbit Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Ray Reed said: you literally spent multiple posts arguing with everyone saying Lamar's tattoo looked bad Specific fact: I don't think Lamar's tattoos look good/cool, but I'm also generally not comfortable talking about a man's body like that. I think he can do what he wants with his body. I don't remember the thread you are talking about, but I can't imagine me praising that decision; at I most I would say "who cares?" Feel free to dispute that with quotes if you know the thread in mind. Things Lamar did that I'd have an issue with would be like that time he was live streaming while going 100+ in a car. That was a dumb*** move and would give me hesitation about investing a lot in him as a person. Doesn't seem like more of those types of incidents happened though. Edited February 28, 2023 by wackywabbit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Reed Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 42 minutes ago, wackywabbit said: Specific fact: I don't think Lamar's tattoos look good/cool, but I'm also generally not comfortable talking about a man's body like that. I think he can do what he wants with his body. I don't remember the thread you are talking about, but I can't imagine me praising that decision; at I most I would say "who cares?" Feel free to dispute that with quotes if you know the thread in mind. Things Lamar did that I'd have an issue with would be like that time he was live streaming while going 100+ in a car. That was a dumb*** move and would give me hesitation about investing a lot in him as a person. Doesn't seem like more of those types of incidents happened though. Cliffs notes version, not looking for a year old thread lol: •Thread in Gen about whether Lamar would stay with Ravens long term •You posted his wings tattoo as evidence that he’d stay •People called tattoo ugly and you got oddly defensive about it I forgot about the car thing in all honesty lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wackywabbit Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Ray Reed said: Cliffs notes version, not looking for a year old thread lol: •Thread in Gen about whether Lamar would stay with Ravens long term •You posted his wings tattoo as evidence that he’d stay •People called tattoo ugly and you got oddly defensive about it I forgot about the car thing in all honesty lol Well I'm not going to look for whatever thread either. So, me defending those tattoos... 20 minutes ago, Ray Reed said: I forgot about the car thing in all honesty lol Funny how some things get made a big deal and some don't. My ideal QB would also not support Watson being back in the league either passively or actively, but that also rules out the entire NFLPA. And my ideal owner would actively speak out about Dan Snyder not being kicked out yet*. *But also not be Jim Irsay Edited February 28, 2023 by wackywabbit 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Reed Posted March 1, 2023 Share Posted March 1, 2023 34 minutes ago, wackywabbit said: Well I'm not going to look for whatever thread either. So, me defending those tattoos... Funny how some things get made a big deal and some don't. My ideal QB would also not support Watson being back in the league either passively or actively, but that also rules out the entire NFLPA. And my ideal owner would actively speak out about Dan Snyder not being kicked out yet*. *But also not be Jim Irsay I also remember a jet ski leap and running routes on asphalt at a kids camp being like a week of coverage at some point haha. He’s definitely been over scrutinized for a lot of things early in his career (but under scrutinized for this current situation 😜) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diamondbull424 Posted March 1, 2023 Author Share Posted March 1, 2023 (edited) 6 hours ago, Ray Reed said: 1. Na, I posted a clip and commented on a clip of Jamar Chase specifically talking about his QB discussing taking less $ to keep the team around him. If that's enough to trigger you maybe stay out of the Lamar offseason discussion thread? You’re embellishing, your clip about Burrow leaving enough so that his weapons could also eat. He never mentioned the greater team around him. Just his weapons. Many QBs have been able to get paid and their top weapons got paid as well; Matt Ryan and Julio, Ben and AB, Stafford and Megatron,etc. Your point was a reach of galactic proportions. Dude didn’t sign an extension, has yet to sign an extension and yet you were comparing him and how amazing he is and how he’s the next Tom Brady (when he legit hasn’t even signed a deal). 6 hours ago, Ray Reed said: 2. Yeah, I know you want specifics. That's why I'm going to ask specifics from KC and BUF fans. Where is this disconnect coming from? The KC deal was signed before the numbers of the current NFL tv/streaming deal had really materialized into the public space. The #Chiefs and QB Patrick Mahomes have agreed to terms on a 10-year extension worth $503 million, sources tell me and @TomPelissero. He gets $477M in guarantee mechanisms and gives the ability for Mahomes to have outs if the guarantee mechanisms aren’t exercised. No trade clause So Mahomes is protected with multiple outs and the team has exercise options that when provided essentially guarantee Mahomes $477m/$503m, however in terms of “fully guaranteed” that number is far lower. The base of the deal without the guarantee mechanisms looks like 10 year/$450m. This at a time when Deshaun Watson wasn’t a known predator and was considered a top 5 QB and similarly got paid that offseason to the tune of $40m/year. Which means Mahomes had a $10m/year differential, with at least a $5m differential in base contract form. He didn’t just set the QB market, he shattered past it. His deal looks incredibly reasonable now knowing what we know about the NFL new tv/stream deals, but at the time it was surprising; not bad, but surprising. We don’t need to consult a biased party, team fans, whether their QBs are on “team friendly” deals. We can look the details up on google. The other stuff I can’t comment on. But just the stuff above. I think there’s a fair line between Lamar being reasonable and questioning his will to win because he’s not willing to be paid $35m APY or something crazy. Lamar taking a deal similar to Watson would be incredibly team friendly when we consider the costs between paying $52m+ APY (and being unlikely to actually cut your franchise QB thus paying him all of said money as we did with Flacco’s deal) OR paying $47m APY guaranteed. In both cases we can then always restructure the deal if team needs persist, same as we did with Flacco’s deal. Edited March 1, 2023 by diamondbull424 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Reed Posted March 1, 2023 Share Posted March 1, 2023 8 hours ago, diamondbull424 said: You’re embellishing, your clip about Burrow leaving enough so that his weapons could also eat. He never mentioned the greater team around him. Just his weapons. Many QBs have been able to get paid and their top weapons got paid as well; Matt Ryan and Julio, Ben and AB, Stafford and Megatron,etc. Your point was a reach of galactic proportions. I gotta be honest man, I've read a lot of semantics-based wonky takes on here in the last 17 years, but "Your point was a galactic reach. He never said he was open to take less money to help the team around him, he said he was open to take less money to help his offensive players around him" is up there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted March 1, 2023 Share Posted March 1, 2023 I saw someone suggest 4 yr/$210M ($52.5M APY) with $170M guaranteed as a sweet spot for both sides. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diamondbull424 Posted March 1, 2023 Author Share Posted March 1, 2023 1 hour ago, Ray Reed said: I gotta be honest man, I've read a lot of semantics-based wonky takes on here in the last 17 years, but "Your point was a galactic reach. He never said he was open to take less money to help the team around him, he said he was open to take less money to help his offensive players around him" is up there. No the galactic take is that you complimented Joe Burrow for being a Tom Brady that takes a team friendly discount deal when he literally has not even signed a contract. So no, it’s not semantics. You said exactly that. I laughed at the ridiculousness of your words and quoted it so you can’t go back and edit the absurdity. That is exactly what you said. It’s a terrible take. Joe Burrow still hasn’t yet signed this “team friendly deal” that you were slobbering his knob over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diamondbull424 Posted March 1, 2023 Author Share Posted March 1, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, NYRaider said: I saw someone suggest 4 yr/$210M ($52.5M APY) with $170M guaranteed as a sweet spot for both sides. It’s not really a sweet spot if another team is willing to offer Lamar $240m guaranteed. Why sign the deal if you’re Lamar, use up your best years potentially and have no security on the backend. Also poisons the Ravens from a cap standpoint so that it’s incredibly difficult to compete within that time frame. So it’d be an equal loss IMO with such a deal. Both sides will have to “lose” something, but I’m not sure in the above either side would truly gain, no offense. Edited March 1, 2023 by diamondbull424 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diamondbull424 Posted March 1, 2023 Author Share Posted March 1, 2023 Speaking of both sides losing in the deal though… and contrary to the deal I think will get done, but if I’m the Ravens I would legit go in the opposite 180 direction. I would see just how far Lamar would be willing to go for fully guaranteed money. Like we can strongly infer that he would sign a 5 year/$250m fully guaranteed deal (4:46 mark), but would he sign a 6 year/$250m deal or a 7 year/$275m deal? That would be like a modern day Kirk Cousins guaranteed deal. $39m APY? Sign me up and we could even add some guarantee mechanisms in the deal to push the overall money a little higher like “$10m bonus for every SBMVP he wins”. Won’t happen due to ego from both sides, but that would probably be the most ideal contract number. Lamar blows past the most guaranteed money, but the team gets an incredibly team friendly deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Reed Posted March 1, 2023 Share Posted March 1, 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, diamondbull424 said: No the galactic take is that you complimented Joe Burrow for being a Tom Brady that takes a team friendly discount deal when he literally has not even signed a contract. So no, it’s not semantics. You said exactly that. I laughed at the ridiculousness of your words and quoted it so you can’t go back and edit the absurdity. That is exactly what you said. It’s a terrible take. Joe Burrow still hasn’t yet signed this “team friendly deal” that you were slobbering his knob over. You literally didn't comprehend what I just said lmao. Shocker You freaking out about me saying "Burrow has said he's open to take less $ to help keep the team around him" and qualifying it with "ummmmm ACKSHULLY he only said he'd try and help the offensive players around him!!" like it's some sort of point against what I said is exactly why you're not fit to objectively discuss things like this. It's the same thing, man. You just try and argue every little semantic thing to divert away from the overarching point that Lamar hasn't said anything close to that and as a fan, that's been disappointing. Who cares if it's about keeping offensive vs defensive players. The point is that he's reportedly talking about trying to keep the team around him. You trying to mental gymnastics your way out of that by saying "ummmm he didn't say he's gonna try and keep the team, he's gonna try and keep his offensive team, he didn't mention defensive guys" is laugh out loud ridiculous. I don't need to edit anything. Here is verbatim what I said in my two original posts accompanying the video: Quote He wants his bag and he's not going to compromise. That's his approach to this situation. Not anything inherently good or bad about that approach, but the fans who are constantly going with the "yassss king, get every cent you can from the Ravens, you deserve it king" need to understand that not every player thinks that way, and Lamar may not be the "all about the team" guy that he was painted as his first few years in the league. How does your misguided, semantic @zz interpretation of what he said even remotely disprove my post here? Quote it bothers me as a fan of the Baltimore Ravens that players on other teams (including our biggest competition in-division) are open about trying to maximize their surroundings by potentially taking less money while our QB may not do the same This was also in my first two posts surrounding the video. If that's enough to trigger you, stay out of the Lamar Jackson offseason thread, and wait until real news happens and there's a news thread. This thread is going to contain speculation and people giving their opinion's on Lamar and developments that relate to Lamar (yes, including a clip about Burrow's potential future contract situation). And if that's enough for you to say I'm "slobbering Joe Burrow's nob", you're full on Jack Black in tropic thunder for Lamar, my dude. Edited March 1, 2023 by Ray Reed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diamondbull424 Posted March 1, 2023 Author Share Posted March 1, 2023 1 hour ago, Ray Reed said: You freaking out about me saying "Burrow has said he's open to take less $ to help keep the team around him" and qualifying it with "ummmmm ACKSHULLY he only said he'd try and help the offensive players around him!!" like it's some sort of point against what I said is exactly why you're not fit to objectively discuss things like this. It's the same thing, man. You just try and argue every little semantic thing to divert away from the overarching point that Lamar hasn't said anything close to that and as a fan, that's been disappointing. Who cares if it's about keeping offensive vs defensive players. The point is that he's reportedly talking about trying to keep the team around him. You trying to mental gymnastics your way out of that by saying "ummmm he didn't say he's gonna try and keep the team, he's gonna try and keep his offensive team, he didn't mention defensive guys" is laugh out loud ridiculous. 1) Where did Burrow come out and say that he was going to take less so as to benefit the team? He said “weapons” and he also stated this to Jamar Chase who has stated this to the public. 2) What difference does it make if he talks about taking a team friendly deal and then takes the team to the cleaners with a deal more than what Lamar gets paid? 3) You’ve already claimed he’s this virtuous guy without evidence to back the claim, it wasn’t even an assumptive statement you used based on future qualifiers. No you likened him with Tom Brady and what Brady has done actively taking less. But continue to try and polish your turd and call it gold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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