NYRaider Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 On 2/16/2023 at 9:05 AM, Darbsk said: To be fair in early 2021 before we launched into our crazy self destruction phase he looked like he may be in MVP discussions when he was hitting Ruggs with bombs regularly. So, for me, when people say ‘at best’ I think he’s capable of playing at a Pro Bowl level and being in the conversation but at worst a very average QB prone to the odd brain fade and frustrating, very similar to Matthew Stafford in my book. The key is good coaching and maximising his positives. Average at best, to me implies that his peak is average when it is clearly and demonstrably so much more, albeit with periods of head scratching 😄 MVP's throw for 40+ TDs in a season, Carr has only cracked 25+ TD once in the last six seasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darbsk Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 1 hour ago, NYRaider said: MVP's throw for 40+ TDs in a season, Carr has only cracked 25+ TD once in the last six seasons. Well that’s why he was ‘in discussions’ before the team self imploded in stupidity with Ruggs, Arnette and Gruden doing their thing……. I simply don’t believe you if you say you weren’t impressed after our first few games, everyone was as I recall and rightly so and he was a hot topic in the media. Obviously, that fell away but we all know the story from then on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 Just now, Darbsk said: Well that’s why he was ‘in discussions’ before the team self imploded in stupidity with Ruggs, Arnette and Gruden doing their thing……. I simply don’t believe you if you say you weren’t impressed after our first few games, everyone was as I recall and rightly so and he was a hot topic in the media. Obviously, that fell away but we all know the story from then on. He had bulk yardage numbers but limited TDs, dude literally went years without throwing for 3+ TD in a game, lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greene N White Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 I think the raiders fanbase is in for a rude awakening post Carr and they'll quickly remember how bad it was before he got there. The odds of finding someone better are pretty low imo. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 42 minutes ago, Greene N White said: I think the raiders fanbase is in for a rude awakening post Carr and they'll quickly remember how bad it was before he got there. The odds of finding someone better are pretty low imo. We've won an average of 7 games per year while Carr was the starter with 2 winning seasons over that 9 year span. Carr is above average but I'm not sure it's going to be extremely difficult to find another QB in the 15-20 range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayRaider Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 2 hours ago, Greene N White said: I think the raiders fanbase is in for a rude awakening post Carr and they'll quickly remember how bad it was before he got there. The odds of finding someone better are pretty low imo. You still have to at least try and not have this “comfortable” mentality with Carr. Carr is meh and wasn’t the answer. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 2 minutes ago, BayRaider said: You still have to at least try and not have this “comfortable” mentality with Carr. Carr is meh and wasn’t the answer. We'll win 5 games with a rookie or a stop gap in comparison to winning 6-7 games with Carr. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greene N White Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 6 minutes ago, NYRaider said: We'll win 5 games with a rookie or a stop gap in comparison to winning 6-7 games with Carr. With that defense? You'll most likely be picking first overall with a rookie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 2 minutes ago, Greene N White said: With that defense? You'll most likely be picking first overall with a rookie Stidham looked legit with our offense though. Even when the defense played well, Carr screwed us, look at the Rams / Steelers games where he got outplayed by Baker (2 days of prep) and Pickett. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greene N White Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 Just now, NYRaider said: Stidham looked legit with our offense though. Even when the defense played well, Carr screwed us, look at the Rams / Steelers games where he got outplayed by Baker (2 days of prep) and Pickett. There has been 57 Super bowls. 0 of which were won by a team with a scoring defense below 25th. Only 2 of the 114 (1.7%) teams that have made the super bowl have had a defense worse than 25th Derek Carr's defenses have been below 25th in scoring 5/9 seasons (56% of the time) Only 3 out of 57 (5%) Super Bowls Have been won by a defense ranked 20th in scoring or worse. Only 7 out of the 114 (6%) teams that made the super bowl have had a defense ranked 20th or worse. Derek Carr's defense has never finished above 20th in scoring Football is a team game. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 53 minutes ago, Greene N White said: There has been 57 Super bowls. 0 of which were won by a team with a scoring defense below 25th. Only 2 of the 114 (1.7%) teams that have made the super bowl have had a defense worse than 25th Derek Carr's defenses have been below 25th in scoring 5/9 seasons (56% of the time) Only 3 out of 57 (5%) Super Bowls Have been won by a defense ranked 20th in scoring or worse. Only 7 out of the 114 (6%) teams that made the super bowl have had a defense ranked 20th or worse. Derek Carr's defense has never finished above 20th in scoring Football is a team game. Did the defense make him the worst red zone QB in the league, terrible in cold weather games, or cause him to lead the NFL in turnovers since he entered the league? Carr has a .600 winning percentage in games that the Raiders have allowed 20 or less points. The rest of the NFL has an .830 winning percentage under those same circumstances. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greene N White Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 8 hours ago, NYRaider said: Did the defense make him the worst red zone QB in the league, terrible in cold weather games, or cause him to lead the NFL in turnovers since he entered the league? Carr has a .600 winning percentage in games that the Raiders have allowed 20 or less points. The rest of the NFL has an .830 winning percentage under those same circumstances. The cherry picked stats are hilarious. The fact that his defense has only allowed less than 20 pts 30 times over 8 seasons is absolutely pathetic if anything and something raiders fans probably should be more concerned with. Maybe we could also talk about how he’s 16th all time in game winning drives and that doesn’t even include the ones his defense screwed him on. Ahead of the likes of joe Montana just for reference. Over his career he has finished in the top 10 in interceptions in the league a grand total of 2 times. Maybe he has more turnovers because he’s been the most durable qb in the league in that timespan and played the most games. I’ll give you the cold weather argument but the sample size is pretty small as he’s always lived in and played in warm weather for the most part. If I remember correctly there was a similar problem with Drew Brees. You must’ve forgot about the 11 straight seasons missing the postseason before he got there as well. The raiders are legit contenders for the #1 pick next year without him whether you want to admit it or not. It will get ugly. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greene N White Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 Taken from a 2021 article: Brady…worst defense, 2002 with 346 points allowed, 9-7 record. Manning…worst defense, 2001. 486 (!!!) points allowed, 6-10 record. No wonder Jim Mora wasn’t trying to hear it. Rodgers…worst defense, TECHNICALLY it is 2013. That team allowed 428 points. The problem is, Rodgers only played nine games. So I’m defaulting to his second-worst defense in 2008 that had 380 points allowed, 6-10 record. Brees…worst defense, 2015 with 476 points allowed, 7-9 record. Mahomes…worst defense, 2018 with 421 points allowed, 12-4 record. Insane. Roethlisberger…worst defense, 2013 with 370 points allowed. 8-8 record. Ryan…worst defense, 2013 with 443 points allowed. 4-12 record. First off, a couple of observations. The WORST full season defenses Brady and Roethlisberger have ever had in 37 combined NFL seasons as starting QB’s were STILL BETTER than Derek Carr’s best in 2017. Rodgers’ worst was just a single touchdown worse and that was his rookie year. Peyton Manning had a defense that allowed just eight points more than Carr did in 2020, but lost two more games. What a bum. Whatever…let’s tally those numbers up, carry the four, and we have a total of 2922 points. Over seven years, that’s an average of 417.4 points, or 26 points per game even. Which is STILL better than the 26.5 points per game Derek Carr’s defense has allowed his first seven years. So you take those seven great QB’s, and with a defense just 1/2 point better than Carr’s, they have a combined record of 52-60. Not very far at all from Carr’s supposedly terrible 47-63 record as a starter (he’s missed two games due to injury). And that’s with a semi-fluky season of Mahomes scoring 565 points while his team allowed 26.3 ppg and winning 12 games. Kind of like Carr’s 2016 season where he was able to offset a poor defense for a single year to win 12 games in his own right. The bottom line is you can not win in this league with the defenses the raiders have been putting on the field. Nobody’s saying carr is a hall of famer but the disrespect he’s getting for not being a “winner” is absolutely outrageous. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AkronsWitness Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 20 hours ago, Greene N White said: I think the raiders fanbase is in for a rude awakening post Carr and they'll quickly remember how bad it was before he got there. The odds of finding someone better are pretty low imo. mmmmmm. Derek Carr is the 12th-20th best QB in football depending on the year and for some reason recently people are forgetting how 'ever so slightly above average, but not great' he really is just because he is a free agent now. Ive noticed the entire NFL media running promo stories on him in the past 2 weeks acting like he is Peyton Manning hitting free agency. Part of that is probably his brother in the medias influence and also because the media loves him because hes a 'nice guy' that got done wrong by the Raiders and want a redemption story to pump. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greene N White Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 2 minutes ago, AkronsWitness said: mmmmmm. Derek Carr is the 12th-20th best QB in football depending on the year and for some reason recently people are forgetting how 'ever so slightly above average, but not great' he really is just because he is a free agent now. Ive noticed the entire NFL media running promo stories on him in the past 2 weeks acting like he is Peyton Manning hitting free agency. Part of that is probably his brother in the medias influence and also because the media loves him because hes a 'nice guy' that got done wrong by the Raiders and want a redemption story to pump. I personally have him at 12. Would understand someone having a couple guys I have below him above him but I really don't think there's a case for having him any lower than 16. Mahomes, Burrow, Allen, Rodgers, Herbert, Lamar, Hurts, Dak, Lawrence, Kyler, Stafford (If healthy) are the guys I have above him. I'm personally taking him over Cousins, Goff, and Tua. I could see why maybe someone would have them higher. Watson is a question mark at this point but he's probably better than Carr but we'll see. I don't think there's really anyone else you could have above him at this point. Like I said I don't think he's a hall of famer but you can definitely win games with a top 12-15 QB in this league and with the right team around him you can contend. The Raiders just completely failed to do that over the past 8 years. The raiders fans must've forgot what it was like to have awful QB play. I, as a jets fan, have not. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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