General Tso Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 @minutemanclDo you have any interest in trading for Tee Higgins and signing him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minutemancl Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 5 minutes ago, iknowcool said: If you do extend DJ as opposed to the tag, then I think you need to be super aggressive in adding talent to the offense. Without a true #1 I don’t think there is any chance we see a huge change in Jones’ production, which blame it on whatever, isn’t gonna be good enough over the long term. For sure. Unfortunately, I don't think there is really a #1 receiver available this year. Bad FA class, relatively poor draft class. I think what you'll see instead is the Giants spend #1 WR money on multiple lesser WRs and try to build that production in the aggregate. A big trade also isn't out of the question- I'd prefer Tee Higgins for big money and lots of draft picks, but Deandre Hopkins is an option, although I'm not too keen on that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minutemancl Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 3 minutes ago, General Tso said: @minutemanclDo you have any interest in trading for Tee Higgins and signing him? Great minds lol. I just mentioned that in my post I made the same time as you. Yeah, absolutely. I have a hard time believing he's truly available, but if he is, I'd push hard to get him. I'd give 25 + one of our 3rd round picks for him, plus a little more if needed, and lock him up for a long time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Tso Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 Yea I think if you trade for Higgins, resign Slayton, and have Hodgins and a healthy Wandale, you try to roll with that and continue to build up the OL through the draft. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lavar703 Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 For whatever reason, he's Steve Young against us. I really hope the Giants let him walk. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minutemancl Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 4 minutes ago, lavar703 said: For whatever reason, he's Steve Young against us. I really hope the Giants let him walk. This is a meme that goes around every week, but they replace the Broncos, in this case, with whatever team the Giants are playing. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shockwave Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 53 minutes ago, Art_Vandalay said: If it is in fact a small difference in money, then yeah. But a better running ability isn't worth 15-20 mil more. Either way, what's the long game with Jones? He's clearly not good enough to get to a Super Bowl despite having a great coach. We've seen his ceiling. Might as well keep the QB money low and continue drafting QB's. Hell, draft two in the first two days. I can't give you a name because I'm not a scout but if the organization is optimistic at all on someone, draft them. That is quite the logical leap to make considering he's only played one season with that coach and he improved immensely. He's never had a true #1 WR, he's had to deal with three different offensive systems in 4 seasons, he's had one of the lowest rated olines over those 4 seasons. The team is still trying to get out from under Gettlemans bad FA signings and contracts. He played this year without his 1st, 2nd, and 3rd string wideouts and you are closing the book on him because he didn't win a SB his first year with a great coach? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art_Vandalay Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 3 hours ago, Shockwave said: That is quite the logical leap to make considering he's only played one season with that coach and he improved immensely. He's never had a true #1 WR, he's had to deal with three different offensive systems in 4 seasons, he's had one of the lowest rated olines over those 4 seasons. The team is still trying to get out from under Gettlemans bad FA signings and contracts. He played this year without his 1st, 2nd, and 3rd string wideouts and you are closing the book on him because he didn't win a SB his first year with a great coach? He went from awful to average, so yeah he definitely improved. If he gets paid this year then that effectively means you can either tag Saquon or go sign a #1 WR. You can't do both. I hear you when you say the team still needs to bring in a lot of talent. How are they going to do that if they pay Danny what he wants? When QB's get paid, the rest of the team will naturally get a little worse. That's just how it is since they can't retain sign as many FA's. Philly's going to lose a bunch of people after they extend Jalen. Now the teams' success depends on whether or not can elevate those around him. Who knows if he can but there's optimism. I don't think there are many people out there who think Danny's gonna elevate those around him. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minutemancl Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 11 minutes ago, Art_Vandalay said: He went from awful to average, so yeah he definitely improved. If he gets paid this year then that effectively means you can either tag Saquon or go sign a #1 WR. You can't do both. I hear you when you say the team still needs to bring in a lot of talent. How are they going to do that if they pay Danny what he wants? When QB's get paid, the rest of the team will naturally get a little worse. That's just how it is since they can't retain sign as many FA's. Philly's going to lose a bunch of people after they extend Jalen. Now the teams' success depends on whether or not can elevate those around him. Who knows if he can but there's optimism. I don't think there are many people out there who think Danny's gonna elevate those around him. That's not true for a couple reasons. First of all, there isn't a #1 WR in free agency to sign. If we were to acquire someone like Tee Higgins or Brandon Aiyuk, he'd play this year on the last year of his rookie deal and a new contract would kick in in 2024. Also, DJ only becomes prohibitively expensive if he is tagged, when all $32 million is on the books for this year. If he signs a longer term deal, you can do all sorts of cap magic to spread out those hits. Big QB contracts regularly only have like $15 million cap hits in year 1. The Giants are in a much different cap situation than the Eagles. They've been pushing money forward for years now, and the bill is going to come due soon. That is why they are going to lose talent. The Giants have a super clean slate to work with. When they accumulate some more talent, you can bet you'll see some more Eagles and Saints cap methodology come into play then. But for now, the Giants are in great shape to sign whoever they want and push whatever kind of money they want into future years if they so choose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jakuvious Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 If I'm the Giants, I dump him and I don't look back. Daniel Jones is not a good QB. It would've been absolutely laughable a year ago to suggest that the Giants should pay him franchise tag money, let alone more than that. And the Giants themselves confirmed that when they denied his 5th year option. They denied paying him a 1 year, $22M deal. I get that people think he improved from 2021 to 2022, but did he really improve by $10M - $20M per year? Personally, I don't really think he improved that much. The Giants just made coaching changes in such a positive way that they no longer needed good QB play to get to 9 wins. He was still pretty much Daniel Jones, they just won some games. Mid-tier play was now enough to get a mid-tier result as they had stronger coaching. But you're going to completely wipe away the benefit that that gives if you pay that QB a ton of money. If you want to franchise him for continuity and morale while you start grooming a replacement? Sure, fine, whatever. At least then you're only wasting one year and $32M, instead of several years of the franchise's potential. But Jones is not a franchise QB. I really don't know how anyone could think he is. He's Tyrod Taylor or, at best, Alex Smith. He's the guy you move on from in hopes you then do get a franchise QB. And I know it's not that easy to just get Josh Allen or Patrick Mahomes. But otherwise it feels like you're making a statement that you're content to just be a fringe wildcard team year to year. And if Daboll is the coach he seems to be, you should not be settling for pairing that with a Daniel Jones. Extending him is just a move made out of fear, ultimately. Being more afraid of the team being bad than you are driven to try to make the team actually great. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CP3MVP Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 7 minutes ago, Jakuvious said: If I'm the Giants, I dump him and I don't look back. Daniel Jones is not a good QB. It would've been absolutely laughable a year ago to suggest that the Giants should pay him franchise tag money, let alone more than that. And the Giants themselves confirmed that when they denied his 5th year option. They denied paying him a 1 year, $22M deal. I get that people think he improved from 2021 to 2022, but did he really improve by $10M - $20M per year? Personally, I don't really think he improved that much. The Giants just made coaching changes in such a positive way that they no longer needed good QB play to get to 9 wins. He was still pretty much Daniel Jones, they just won some games. Mid-tier play was now enough to get a mid-tier result as they had stronger coaching. But you're going to completely wipe away the benefit that that gives if you pay that QB a ton of money. If you want to franchise him for continuity and morale while you start grooming a replacement? Sure, fine, whatever. At least then you're only wasting one year and $32M, instead of several years of the franchise's potential. But Jones is not a franchise QB. I really don't know how anyone could think he is. He's Tyrod Taylor or, at best, Alex Smith. He's the guy you move on from in hopes you then do get a franchise QB. And I know it's not that easy to just get Josh Allen or Patrick Mahomes. But otherwise it feels like you're making a statement that you're content to just be a fringe wildcard team year to year. And if Daboll is the coach he seems to be, you should not be settling for pairing that with a Daniel Jones. Extending him is just a move made out of fear, ultimately. Being more afraid of the team being bad than you are driven to try to make the team actually great. I remember me and you had a discussion in October where we agreed the hard part for the giants is to not overrate Jones after this season because “hey we are winning bro” 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
y*so*blu Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 The $45 million figure was just a rumor to begin with, plus we have this. I think Daniel is more reasonable than that. He may want about 40, the team may want to give him about 30, and they'll meet in the middle somewhere. I could live with that. Hell, if he continues to improve under Daboll, in a few years it may look like a bargain. If he won't negotiate, then yeah, tag him and kick the can down the road. But I don't think it will come to that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art_Vandalay Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 32 minutes ago, minutemancl said: That's not true for a couple reasons. First of all, there isn't a #1 WR in free agency to sign. If we were to acquire someone like Tee Higgins or Brandon Aiyuk, he'd play this year on the last year of his rookie deal and a new contract would kick in in 2024. Also, DJ only becomes prohibitively expensive if he is tagged, when all $32 million is on the books for this year. If he signs a longer term deal, you can do all sorts of cap magic to spread out those hits. Big QB contracts regularly only have like $15 million cap hits in year 1. The Giants are in a much different cap situation than the Eagles. They've been pushing money forward for years now, and the bill is going to come due soon. That is why they are going to lose talent. The Giants have a super clean slate to work with. When they accumulate some more talent, you can bet you'll see some more Eagles and Saints cap methodology come into play then. But for now, the Giants are in great shape to sign whoever they want and push whatever kind of money they want into future years if they so choose. I still don't see the optimism for DJ. You say there's no #1 WR available so in this scenario, the "cheap" year for DJ will be spent yet again without another true #1. So, I think it's fair to say that would mean they wouldn't be legitimate contenders this year. Then the expensive years start to kick in and you can still only have Saquon or sign a #1. But a lot of people can probably argue that Tee is a #1. So hypothetically, you got this 1 year window where you can sign Tee, tag Saquon, and have DJ relatively cheap. Then Saquon is likely gone after that, Dexter Lawrence is going to break the bank, DJ is going to get more expensive. I just don't see it being worth it. I guess a lot of the success is going to be dependent on how well they draft but if they keep picking mid/low 20s, then odds are against drafting difference makers. For me it boils down to this. If your team has a lot of holes and you're due to pay your QB, you better hope he's a locked in top 10 guy. I think even the most generous people will say "maybe he's fringe top 10." But realistically he's in the teens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shockwave Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 (edited) My B link was already posted Edited February 23, 2023 by Shockwave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 They should follow the same strategy that the Cowboys and Commanders used with Dak and Kirk. They were both willing to use the franchise tag twice on their starting QBs because they weren't ready to commit long term. There really isn't anyway that I'd give him a multi year deal unless it was structured like the deal the Raiders gave Derek Carr last offseason where they were able to move on after a year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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