Love is in the air! Poll!!

[Ray Reed]

4 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

Probably the closest that's been mentioned yet, but kinda weird when you managed to exclude Mark Andrews and instead mention the guy that 6th on the team in targets.  Also, Marquise Brown played in 14 out of a possible 16 games.

Brown was playing post-linsfranc surgery all year after he had surgery after that college season. He had less than 600 yards in 2019.

And I said WRs. But sure we can throw Mark Andrews in there, but he was an unknown 3rd round TE at that point. That doesn’t really help your cause. Mark Andrews wasn’t established before 2019. He was established that year with Lamar. Which is kind of the point of your post. Lamar was a sophomore QB who took garbage WRs and a 3rd Round TE and turned the TE into an All Pro and won 14 games with him and garbage receivers lol. It perfectly answers your question, and I think you know that.

Edited October 31, 2023 by Ray Reed

[CWood21]

Just now, Ray Reed said:

Brown was playing post-linsfranc surgery all year after he had surgery after that college season. He had less than 600 yards in 2019.

And I said WRs. But sure we can throw Mark Andrews in there, but he was an unknown 3rd round TE at that point. That doesn’t really help your cause. Mark Andrews wasn’t established before 2019. He was established that year with Lamar. Which is king of the point of your post. 

Alright, so we've gotten ONE in the last 25 years.  ONE.  StatKing's post seems to indicate that's the norm.  Remember when Patrick Mahomes put Tyreek Hill and Travis Kelce on the map?  Or when Josh Allen made Stefon Diggs a legitimate WR?  Or how about Tua with Tyreek Hill and Jaylen Waddle?  You see the recurring theme there?  It's a veteran WR/TE alongside a young, inexperienced QB.  You know what Green Bay doesn't have?  A go-to WR/TE.

[packfanfb]

1 hour ago, CWood21 said:

Speaking of contrary opinions, I think @packfanfb is on the more pessimistic side.  Doesn't mean I don't think he has quality insight and opinions.  And he's there more than willing to talk football even if he his opinion doesn't turn out to be correct.

This is good other than the fallacy that I'm not always correct. 

[Daniel]

1 hour ago, CWood21 said:

So we're going to punish Love for sitting behind Rodgers?  Interesting.  Let's go talk about sophomores who elevated their supporting cast.  Find me a sophomore who made his supporting cast great.

Who’s punishing him? We’re just not pretending he’s a rookie.

Burrow, Lawrence in the last stretch last year, Mahomes off the top of my head.

Have to double check the years to make sure that it was in fact their second season, but I think Watson and Jackson are there too.

If we go back even further I’m certain there are like dozens of examples.

[CWood21]

51 minutes ago, Daniel said:

Who’s punishing him? We’re just not pretending he’s a rookie.

Burrow, Lawrence in the last stretch last year, Mahomes off the top of my head.

Have to double check the years to make sure that it was in fact their second season, but I think Watson and Jackson are there too.

If we go back even further I’m certain there are like dozens of examples.

You mean when the Cincinnati Joe Burrow's used the 5th overall pick on Ja'Marr Chase instead of taking the obvious choice in Penei Sewell?  Or you mentioning when Patrick Mahomes inherited an established top 3 TE in Travis Kelce and a top 5 WR in Tyreek Hill?  Trevor Lawrence is probably a close one, but that was boosted by a strong 2nd half of the season.  His first 2 months of the year he was completing 62% of his passes for 6.6 YPA with 10 passing TD and 6 INT.  That looks similar (not the same) as Jordan Love with his 58% completion percentage, 6.4 YPA, along with 11 TDs and 8 INTs.  The only difference is Trevor Lawrence played that 2nd half of the season.  Jordan Love hasn't.  And he's already being written off.  As for Watson, he inherited DeAndre Hopkins another top 5 WR.

Lamar Jackson is the only one who inherited a "weak" supporting cast and performed extremely well.  Trevor Lawrence did well with a limited supporting cast, but he did poorly in the first half of the season.  LIS, it's a to soon to make a decision.

[Soko]

I felt the same way about Mac Jones.

Took me a little while to accept that the cast sucks but he still ain’t it.

[General Tso]

I think you could argue even this year, Stroud is elevating his receivers. What was Nico Collins before this year? Tank Dell is a rookie. Woods is old. 

If you guys want to believe Love could take that jump like Hurts if you got him an AJ Brown, then you're entitled to believe that.

[Pool]

2 hours ago, CWood21 said:

Probably the closest that's been mentioned yet, but kinda weird when you managed to exclude Mark Andrews and instead mention the guy that 6th on the team in targets.  Also, Marquise Brown played in 14 out of a possible 16 games.

You got 3 examples and yet find fault with all them. If you are going to argue with people at least do it in good faith. The way you argue is so insincere it makes it really hard to take anything you say serious.

[Pool]

2 hours ago, CWood21 said:

Alright, so we've gotten ONE in the last 25 years.  ONE.  StatKing's post seems to indicate that's the norm.  Remember when Patrick Mahomes put Tyreek Hill and Travis Kelce on the map?  Or when Josh Allen made Stefon Diggs a legitimate WR?  Or how about Tua with Tyreek Hill and Jaylen Waddle?  You see the recurring theme there?  It's a veteran WR/TE alongside a young, inexperienced QB.  You know what Green Bay doesn't have?  A go-to WR/TE.

A good quarterback?

[ET80]

8 hours ago, StatKing said:

Are the Packers mods exempt from the forum rules?

No.

@Packerraymond - you need to stop.

[Soko]

1 hour ago, General Tso said:

I think you could argue even this year, Stroud is elevating his receivers. What was Nico Collins before this year? Tank Dell is a rookie. Woods is old. 

If you guys want to believe Love could take that jump like Hurts if you got him an AJ Brown, then you're entitled to believe that.

RGIII wasn’t surrounded by talent as a rookie and lit things up. Luck had a washed up Reggie Wayne, looked great. Wentz in his sophomore season balled with Ertz, Jeffery (overrated), Agholor, and Torrey Smith. Rookie Lawrence didn’t have Jack. Rookie Kyler didn’t have anyone. 

This argument gets brought up a lot, especially with guys like Tua and Allen acquiring Hill/Diggs respectively before making that jump, that young QBs need weapons. Which I think obviously has some truth to it, obviously a QB (especially an inexperienced one) will have an easier time with a better coach/players around them. But at the same time - how many situations are there with a QB doesn’t have either a competent coach or one single quality offensive skills player? They’re really few and far between by comparison. 

I think what was really glossed over was that the original comment was that “good QBs elevate their supporting cast”, which got switched to “good QBs in their first year starting”, which really limits the pool and changes the discussion.

[GHARMON9]

Packers fan here. 

Love isn't a good QB.

He has a wtf play every game , usually two. I have never seen a QB false start in my life until the Falcons game. Top 1 goofiest play I ever seen. His deep balls tend to be under thrown.

He misses wide open players. His INTs are REALLY bad. Defending a sub 60% completion rate in 2023 takes courage lmao.

The past few weeks his WRs and oline haven't done him any favors but it's just not looking good for him.

 

 

 

[Bumski]

The posters who blamed Rodgers for everything have now become exactly what they claimed to hate. 

Funny how that works. 

[squire12]

1 hour ago, Soko said:

RGIII wasn’t surrounded by talent as a rookie and lit things up. Luck had a washed up Reggie Wayne, looked great. Wentz in his sophomore season balled with Ertz, Jeffery (overrated), Agholor, and Torrey Smith. Rookie Lawrence didn’t have Jack. Rookie Kyler didn’t have anyone. 

This argument gets brought up a lot, especially with guys like Tua and Allen acquiring Hill/Diggs respectively before making that jump, that young QBs need weapons. Which I think obviously has some truth to it, obviously a QB (especially an inexperienced one) will have an easier time with a better coach/players around them. But at the same time - how many situations are there with a QB doesn’t have either a competent coach or one single quality offensive skills player? They’re really few and far between by comparison. 

I think what was really glossed over was that the original comment was that “good QBs elevate their supporting cast”, which got switched to “good QBs in their first year starting”, which really limits the pool and changes the discussion.

• Griffin had an older Santana Moss (4x 1000 yard receiving seasons), Garcon was coming off 3 seasons of 750+ yards receiving
• Luck had an older Wayne but he was a 3x AP and 5x pro bowl WR that was putting up 900+ yards for 8 consecutive years prior
• Wentz had a Ertz at TE with 3 straight years over 700 yards receiving, Jeffery had 2 seasons over 1000 yards and 2 others over 800 yards, Smith had 1 1000 yard season and 2 others over 800 yards
• Lawrence had an older Marvin Jones who had 1 season over 1000 yards and 3 other seasons over 800 yards

Now, none of those WR are top tier players like JJ, Chase, Kupp, Adams, etc.   But I would say that the collective group of Watson, Doubs, Reed, Wicks, Musgrave with a whopping total of 1036 total career yards receiving is the weakest group of pass catchers relative to the others 

Edited November 1, 2023 by squire12

[Trey Lance]

4 hours ago, CWood21 said:

Alright, so we've gotten ONE in the last 25 years.  ONE.  StatKing's post seems to indicate that's the norm.  Remember when Patrick Mahomes put Tyreek Hill and Travis Kelce on the map?  Or when Josh Allen made Stefon Diggs a legitimate WR?  Or how about Tua with Tyreek Hill and Jaylen Waddle?  You see the recurring theme there?  It's a veteran WR/TE alongside a young, inexperienced QB.  You know what Green Bay doesn't have?  A go-to WR/TE.

I see what you are saying but it goes both ways. Kelce and Hill leveled up with Mahomes for sure. Hill went from an elite deep threat to an elite WR. Purdy is another that comes to mind. The offense was much better last year after Jimmy went down. Is that because Jimmy sucks? Maybe but Purdy elevated the team in his first year. 

 

Anyway while I don't think Love will be anything more than a journeyman starter/backup, I don't think leveling up players in the first year is evidence of why. 

Edited November 1, 2023 by Trey Lance