Packerraymond Posted May 2, 2023 Share Posted May 2, 2023 2 hours ago, Old Guy said: Emeka Egbiuka He's projected 1st round right now. Which means CJ Stroud will have had 5 - 1st round WR's to throw the ball to. Also, had an NFL or two TE, Ruckert rings a bell for me. He might be the first quarterback in NFL history to have worse WR's to throw to in the NFL than he did in college. Tua had Jeudy, Waddle, Ruggs and Devonta Smith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packerraymond Posted May 2, 2023 Share Posted May 2, 2023 @incognito_manif you want to keep your Darnell Wright love going for another season, keep an eye out for #65 on Alabama, JC Latham. Their RT and will move to LT now that Steen graduated. 6'6 330, from Wisconsin originally. Very similar player and build to Wright. He'll be a top 15 pick at OT next year, hopefully the Jets get us up that high. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted May 2, 2023 Share Posted May 2, 2023 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Packerraymond said: @incognito_manif you want to keep your Darnell Wright love going for another season, keep an eye out for #65 on Alabama, JC Latham. Their RT and will move to LT now that Steen graduated. 6'6 330, from Wisconsin originally. Very similar player and build to Wright. He'll be a top 15 pick at OT next year, hopefully the Jets get us up that high. I tuned into PFFs draft coverage and they pointed out when the Bears selected Wright that he was something like 182/188 graded OTs in number of negative plays. I REALLY soured on him after that. Had also read some opinions that Wright has the best highlight reel of the OTs, but the worst consistency - which seems in line with that. OT is a position where I very very much want consistency. After learning that, I'm glad we didn't take that risk with our pick (or have the opportunity to). Will keep my eye on Latham though. Edited May 2, 2023 by incognito_man 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packerraymond Posted May 2, 2023 Share Posted May 2, 2023 7 minutes ago, incognito_man said: I tuned into PFFs draft coverage and they pointed out when the Bears selected Wright that he was something like 182/188 graded OTs in number of negative plays. I REALLY soured on him after that. Had also read some opinions that Wright has the best highlight reel of the OTs, but the worst consistency - which seems in line with that. OT is a position where I very very much want consistency. After learning that, I'm glad we didn't take that risk with our pick (or have the opportunity to). Will keep my eye on Latham though. Hmm, I had 6 games of his that I watched, I thought he was very consistent, oh well, he's a Bear now. Hope he sucks. I'd be fairly confident putting a large bet one year out that one of our two 1st rounders will be an OT next year, so I'll put together a watchlist for everyone before summers out of a large group of OT's to watch in the upcoming college year. OL is the best to scout for anyone, tight copy of all 22 is nice to have, but you can just DVR a game and still get the entirety of their contribution in every play, which you can only really say for QB/OL/DL. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packfanfb Posted May 2, 2023 Share Posted May 2, 2023 6 hours ago, MacReady said: Roquan Smith the one who got traded instead of extended? Devon White the one who is asking for a trade and won’t be extended? Ray Lewis who was an entire era ago? Brian Urlacher who was also a era ago? The NFL changes. Off ball linebackers are extinct as far as positional value. While we're on this subject, only 12 of 32 5th year options were picked up this year. Out of those 12, the position groups were as follows: 4 WRs 3 QB 3 OTs 1 DL 1 CB Moral of the story...don't shy away from drafting good WRs in the first round Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBURGE Posted May 2, 2023 Share Posted May 2, 2023 4 minutes ago, packfanfb said: While we're on this subject, only 12 of 32 5th year options were picked up this year. Out of those 12, the position groups were as follows: 4 WRs 3 QB 3 OTs 1 DL 1 CB Moral of the story...don't shy away from drafting good WRs in the first round Once WRs started making 30m it was no longer an awful pick 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted May 2, 2023 Author Share Posted May 2, 2023 8 minutes ago, JBURGE said: Once WRs started making 30m it was no longer an awful pick It's still an awful pick high, but yeah. The WR market kinda made you start looking at what you can get in the 20-32 range. What @packfanfb doesn't seem to get nor understand is that we've had Adams, Nelson, Jennings, Cobb, Watson and soon Reed without using a single first round pick at the position. He's also talking 5th year option. And the draft he's talking about had Ruggs, Jeudy, Lamb and Raegor drafted in the top 20. Jefferson and Aiyuk were past 20th overall. So... 2/5 aren't even on their first team anymore. Jeudy hasn't had a 1,000 yard season and Watkins just had more touchdown receptions in his first year than Jeudy's previous two. Lamb and Jefferson are both on teams that don't have a QB capable of winning the Super Bowl. So... None of those teams should have drafted a receiver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted May 2, 2023 Share Posted May 2, 2023 7 minutes ago, MacReady said: still an awful pick high Is Jamarr Chase an awful pick? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted May 2, 2023 Author Share Posted May 2, 2023 9 minutes ago, incognito_man said: Is Jamarr Chase an awful pick? Yes. Pennei Sewell was sitting right there and they got Tee Higgins the year before. If there's a no brainer OT the same time there's a no brainer WR, it's a no brainer. What kept the Bengals from advancing each of the past two years? Pass protection. Bengals have their first Super Bowl win if they draft Sewell instead of Chase. The Bengals drafted Chase 5th overall and Jackson Carman 46th overall. People forget here... I'm arguing purely from a standpoint of winning Super Bowls. Some people are okay without Super Bowls. Drafting a WR high is perfectly acceptable if you want regular season wins and long shot odds in the playoffs. For winning Super Bowls... For building Super Bowl winning teams... You get your QB, your EDGE, your DL and your OT high and you fill in the other pieces low. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Guy Posted May 2, 2023 Share Posted May 2, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Packerraymond said: Tua had Jeudy, Waddle, Ruggs and Devonta Smith. Great call but who you taking Tua's or these: Wilson, Olave, JSN, Harrison Jr. and Egbuka? Maybe Burrow too now that I think about it. Edited May 2, 2023 by Old Guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted May 2, 2023 Share Posted May 2, 2023 12 minutes ago, MacReady said: Yes. Pennei Sewell was sitting right there and they got Tee Higgins the year before. If there's a no brainer OT the same time there's a no brainer WR, it's a no brainer. What kept the Bengals from advancing each of the past two years? Pass protection. Bengals have their first Super Bowl win if they draft Sewell instead of Chase. The Bengals drafted Chase 5th overall and Jackson Carman 46th overall. People forget here... I'm arguing purely from a standpoint of winning Super Bowls. Some people are okay without Super Bowls. Drafting a WR high is perfectly acceptable if you want regular season wins and long shot odds in the playoffs. For winning Super Bowls... For building Super Bowl winning teams... You get your QB, your EDGE, your DL and your OT high and you fill in the other pieces low. Disagree. The NFL believes top WRs are more valuable and I haven't seen any convincing analysis to the contrary. JaMarr Chase is easily worth that pick. Bengals wouldn't have made the playoffs without him. I can make that statement to show he's more valuable than an OT who's never made the playoffs. Both picks were excellent picks, however. Both extremely valuable positions in today's NFL and really good players 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packerraymond Posted May 2, 2023 Share Posted May 2, 2023 16 minutes ago, MacReady said: Yes. Pennei Sewell was sitting right there and they got Tee Higgins the year before. If there's a no brainer OT the same time there's a no brainer WR, it's a no brainer. What kept the Bengals from advancing each of the past two years? Pass protection. Bengals have their first Super Bowl win if they draft Sewell instead of Chase. The Bengals drafted Chase 5th overall and Jackson Carman 46th overall. People forget here... I'm arguing purely from a standpoint of winning Super Bowls. Some people are okay without Super Bowls. Drafting a WR high is perfectly acceptable if you want regular season wins and long shot odds in the playoffs. For winning Super Bowls... For building Super Bowl winning teams... You get your QB, your EDGE, your DL and your OT high and you fill in the other pieces low. The Bengals just filled their need at LT with a premier FA, because they're getting elite contributions from a QB and WR group on a rookie contact. Value at premier positions is value, Jamarr Chase is a 30+m player who's making 8.4 this year. That's incredible value. You're stuck in 2012. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBURGE Posted May 2, 2023 Share Posted May 2, 2023 2 minutes ago, Packerraymond said: The Bengals just filled their need at LT with a premier FA, because they're getting elite contributions from a QB and WR group on a rookie contact. Value at premier positions is value, Jamarr Chase is a 30+m player who's making 8.4 this year. That's incredible value. You're stuck in 2012. This is facts. You take premiumn positions as rookies for 2 reasons imo: First is the hit rate, and that is the argument for taking a high OT, generally the best ones are found higher in the draft. Secondly, the delta in contract value over the rookie deal. The highest LT deals are now 23M AAV. WR's used to be less than 20M just 5 years ago, and are now ballooning over 25M. If you can get an elite player with 20M in cap savings, it is worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted May 2, 2023 Author Share Posted May 2, 2023 17 minutes ago, incognito_man said: Disagree. The NFL believes top WRs are more valuable and I haven't seen any convincing analysis to the contrary. JaMarr Chase is easily worth that pick. Bengals wouldn't have made the playoffs without him. I can make that statement to show he's more valuable than an OT who's never made the playoffs. Both picks were excellent picks, however. Both extremely valuable positions in today's NFL and really good players If the Lions had drafted Burrow the year before and Sewell after, they’d have won a Super Bowl, too. Burrow does not need a WR to win a Super Bowl. He does need an OT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted May 2, 2023 Author Share Posted May 2, 2023 14 minutes ago, Packerraymond said: The Bengals just filled their need at LT with a premier FA, because they're getting elite contributions from a QB and WR group on a rookie contact. Value at premier positions is value, Jamarr Chase is a 30+m player who's making 8.4 this year. That's incredible value. You're stuck in 2012. I’ve still yet to see the evidence where you need an elite WR to win a Super Bowl. In fact, more teams have won the Super Bowl in the past 20 years without an elite WR than with. And the ones that have recently, only the Buccaneers are the team I can think of that drafted that elite WR in the top half of the draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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