The 2024 Draft. Tonight's the night...

[CWood21]

1 minute ago, Ozzy said:

Maybe, but the reality is that 2022 class had no elite QBs at all, much less four or five QBs who could all go top 15.

 

That is the difference, but yes maybe the Jets and Bears go WR, I would not agree with that considering both rosters and how important it is to protect the QB and get after the QB.

The 2022 class had no elite QBs, but they had 3 top EDGE prospects and 2 elite CB prospects something this year's class is.  Substitute EDGE and CB with QB, and it's pretty much the same class.  There was a glut of really good OL in 2022 (Ekwonu, Neal, and Cross) and a glut of WRs (London, Wilson, Olive, and Williams).

But let's use your example for the Bears.  Let's assume that they want to balance their picks out at the top of the draft, and they don't want to go WR at 9.  Why wouldn't they shop that pick?  They don't pick again until 75, and they only have 4 picks total.  They're almost assuredly looking to move down, unless there's a guy that they absolutely have.  Seems like a perfect opportunity for a team like New Orleans (OT or WR), Las Vegas (OT or WR), etc. to move up for a relatively reduced price.

[SteelKing728]

2 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

The 2022 class had no elite QBs, but they had 3 top EDGE prospects and 2 elite CB prospects something this year's class is.  Substitute EDGE and CB with QB, and it's pretty much the same class.  There was a glut of really good OL in 2022 (Ekwonu, Neal, and Cross) and a glut of WRs (London, Wilson, Olive, and Williams).

But let's use your example for the Bears.  Let's assume that they want to balance their picks out at the top of the draft, and they don't want to go WR at 9.  Why wouldn't they shop that pick?  They don't pick again until 75, and they only have 4 picks total.  They're almost assuredly looking to move down, unless there's a guy that they absolutely have.  Seems like a perfect opportunity for a team like New Orleans (OT or WR), Las Vegas (OT or WR), etc. to move up for a relatively reduced price.

That's what I think Chicago will do as well. They need the draft capital right now and IF they figure out the QB position, then look to make moves like the Rams were doing and what Houston is currently doing.

[Ozzy]

31 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

Baker was substantially more productive in Carolina than Sam Darnold was in New York.  Like, not even close.  Pick any statistic and you can point to that.  Baker Mayfield's career was "dead" because the Browns dumped him on Carolina so they could pick up Deshaun Watson.  The same Carolina team that is handing over a #1 pick to Chicago because they chose to sell the farm to get Bryce Young.  He was solid in replacement of Matthew Stafford, and had a good season last year with Tampa Bay that made him the 16th highest paid QB in the NFL.  The only starting QBs making less than Baker Mayfield that isn't on their rookie deal is Geno Smith, Jordan Love, Sam Darnold, Jacoby Brissett, Marcus Mariota, and Jarrett Stidham.  Three of those guys (Darnold, Brissett, and Maritoa) are clearly bridge QBs until their respective teams draft their replacement.  One (Jordan Love) is about to get a significant extension this offseason.  And one (Jarrett Stidham) is clearly the best of an otherwise miserable options available.  Baker Mayfield's "value" is derived more by the fact that he played well as much as it is about the options otherwise.  If the Buccaneers didn't re-sign Baker, they're stuck with guys like Kyle Trask or someone other bad QB as their starting QB without any way of moving up the board for a long-term solution at QB.

 

Josh Dobbs was good for the first 2 games after he was traded, and then turned back into the pumpkin we all knew he was.  And Mullens played better, but couldn't get out of his own way with turnovers.  Those two alone accounted for 13 interceptions over the final 9 games.  That's not good.  IF that's your barometer for success for Darnold, good luck competing not to finish last in the division.  And Darnold is literally in that same breath as the players you mentioned.  He's nowhere near Gardner Mishnew.

Don't give me that, when Mayfield was on Cleveland that was one of the best rosters in the NFL especially on offense.  They had what three OL on the All Pro team?  What Chubb and Hunt at RB, then Landry and Beckham at WR and Hooper, Bryant and Njoku at TE.  Oh yeah playing QB for that team must have been real hard to do.  Put Sam Darnold on that roster he could easily still be in Cleveland, put Mayfield on the Jets are he would have struggled also with that offensive unit.

 

Also Minshew is 27 turning 28 in May and is going on his 6th year in the NFL, Sam Darnold is 26 turning 27 in June and is going on his 7th year in the NFL.  Oh and Darnold is the youngest QB ever to start a game in the NFL so pretty sure he has not yet peaked as a player.  

 

And sure maybe Darnold will not do well but honestly so what, especially if the Vikings get a QB in this draft 1st round assuming.  Either way it is still the best situation he has ever been in during his career.  And say Brock Purdy went down last year, he would have done more than ok with the 49ers in that system.  Kyle Shananah loved the guy and there is something to that, give Darnold $10 million for one year and basically he did not do much at all last year or play much either.  Says either the NFL inside community thinks highly of him or there was a little bidding war for him to be a backup or place holding QB for more than one team.

Considering what was out there, he was a great get.  And is easy to forget he was a RS SOPH when he came out and did not play what only two years in college only...

Edited April 6 by Ozzy

[CWood21]

4 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

Don't give me that, when Mayfield was on Cleveland that was one of the best rosters in the NFL especially on offense.  They had what three OL on the All Pro team?  What Chubb and Hunt at RB, then Landry and Beckham at WR and Hooper, Bryant and Njoku at TE.  Oh yeah playing QB for that team must have been real hard to do.  Put Sam Darnold on that roster he could easily still be in Cleveland, put Mayfield on the Jets are he would have struggled also with that offensive unit.

One of the best?  That's a joke right?  For being one of the best offenses, they only had 1 season with Baker Mayfield as a top 15 offense.  And I don't think that's a high bar to clear.  They had a good RB duo in Kareem Hunt and Nick Chubb.  Jarvis Landry was a good, but not great WR that pretty much disappeared off the face of the earth after the Browns moved on from him.  OBJ played in 29 games in 3 seasons before the Browns decided he wasn't worth the headache he was.  Austin Hooper and David Nook were solid TEs, but nothing special.  The only part of your argument is based on is hypotheticals.  Nothing factual.

12 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

Also Minshew is 27 turning 28 in May and is going on his 6th year in the NFL, Sam Darnold is 26 turning 27 in June and is going on his 7th year in the NFL.  Oh and Darnold is the youngest QB ever to start a game in the NFL so pretty sure he has not yet peaked as a player.  

When Sam Darnold does what Gardner Mishnew did last year, we can talk.  When Sam Darnold as a starting QB can maintain a CMP% north of 60% and a TD/INT rate 1.5+, let me know.  Sam Darnold has 1 season where he completed 60%+ of his passes, and he's never posted a TD/INT ratio of 1.5+.  But sure, continue to blame his supporting cast.  There's a reason why Minnesota is aggressively moving up.  And it's not because they share your optimism regarding Sam Darnold.

15 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

And sure maybe Darnold will not do well but honestly so what, especially if the Vikings get a QB in this draft 1st round assuming.  Either way it is still the best situation he has ever been in during his career.  And say Brock Purdy went down last year, he would have done more than ok with the 49ers in that system.  Kyle Shananah loved the guy and there is something to that, give Darnold $10 million for one year and basically he did not do much at all last year or play much either.  Says either the NFL inside community thinks highly of him or there was a little bidding war for him to be a backup or place holding QB for more than one team.

Again with the hypotheticals that you can't support.  You paid more money to a guy that was QB2 by default last year than the Raiders gave to a guy who almost led the Colts to the playoffs.  Let that sink in.  If you want to throw $10M at a guy who hasn't had any success in the NFL simply because he threw 46 passes with one of the best HCs in the NFL, go right ahead.

As for the latter part, and hear me out on this one.  The Vikings overpaid for his services.  He signed a 1 year, $4.5M deal with the 49ers last year to be Brock Purdy's backup.  After throwing just FORTY-SIX passes, he signed a 1 year, $10M to be the "starting" QB for the Vikings.  Jacoby Brissett signed a 1 year, $8M deal with New England to do the exact same thing that Sam Darnold did.  Marcus Mariota signed a 1 year, $6M deal to do the exact same thing.  Somehow despite doing absolutely nothing in San Francisco, he managed to more than double his contract from the previous year.

[Ozzy]

31 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

One of the best?  That's a joke right?  For being one of the best offenses, they only had 1 season with Baker Mayfield as a top 15 offense.  And I don't think that's a high bar to clear.  They had a good RB duo in Kareem Hunt and Nick Chubb.  Jarvis Landry was a good, but not great WR that pretty much disappeared off the face of the earth after the Browns moved on from him.  OBJ played in 29 games in 3 seasons before the Browns decided he wasn't worth the headache he was.  Austin Hooper and David Nook were solid TEs, but nothing special.  The only part of your argument is based on is hypotheticals.  Nothing factual.

When Sam Darnold does what Gardner Mishnew did last year, we can talk.  When Sam Darnold as a starting QB can maintain a CMP% north of 60% and a TD/INT rate 1.5+, let me know.  Sam Darnold has 1 season where he completed 60%+ of his passes, and he's never posted a TD/INT ratio of 1.5+.  But sure, continue to blame his supporting cast.  There's a reason why Minnesota is aggressively moving up.  And it's not because they share your optimism regarding Sam Darnold.

Again with the hypotheticals that you can't support.  You paid more money to a guy that was QB2 by default last year than the Raiders gave to a guy who almost led the Colts to the playoffs.  Let that sink in.  If you want to throw $10M at a guy who hasn't had any success in the NFL simply because he threw 46 passes with one of the best HCs in the NFL, go right ahead.

As for the latter part, and hear me out on this one.  The Vikings overpaid for his services.  He signed a 1 year, $4.5M deal with the 49ers last year to be Brock Purdy's backup.  After throwing just FORTY-SIX passes, he signed a 1 year, $10M to be the "starting" QB for the Vikings.  Jacoby Brissett signed a 1 year, $8M deal with New England to do the exact same thing that Sam Darnold did.  Marcus Mariota signed a 1 year, $6M deal to do the exact same thing.  Somehow despite doing absolutely nothing in San Francisco, he managed to more than double his contract from the previous year.

Just gloss over the total protection he had and do not address that at all.  Three All Pro OL in Conklin, Bitonio and Teller....oh but that does not matter when really it could be the most important thing, and David Njoku is nothing special?   Ok yeah sure, pretend all day that it was not a very loaded roster that had great depth and the New York Jets straight up sucked.  There is a reason the Browns almost got to the AFC title game, and it was not all because of Baker Mayfield.  

 

Oh and those three are still on the Cleveland Browns on the OL, wonder why, the Jets have had a rotating door on the OL and when Darnold was there they never had a consistent group much less good group.

 

Like I said I would take Darnold and his potential to maybe do something over Brissett, Mariota etc...  Stupid?  Nah, and NFL guys talk, Kwesi was at San Francisco when John Lynch was in charge, do not pretend they did not talk about Darnold.  And as much as you totally disregard preseason, Sam Darnold preformed very well in preseason and in practice while with the 49ers.  

 

It gives them flexibility at QB as an organization to get Darnold, because then they do not have to be stupid and chase a QB in this draft and just see who falls.  Hopefully not give up 3 1st rounders to move up and get one 1st rounder.  Most likely a guy falls right to them and if he needs to sit a year, having Darnold around allows that.

 

Think they would be better off with Brissett at QB?  Hell no, Brissett is 31 and Mariota is 30.  Think they would be better off with Gardner Minshew?  Nah, and he gets $12.5 mil a year so costs more.  Sure he played well with the Colts but that was with an OC that knows him and they ran RPO action they did in Philadelphia and he did well with it, not sure he will have the success with the Raiders who run a different offense.  

Edited April 7 by Ozzy

[CWood21]

14 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

Just gloss over the total protection he had and do not address that at all.  Three All Pro OL in Conklin, Bitonio and Teller....oh but that does not matter when really it could be the most important thing, and David Njoku is nothing special?   Ok yeah sure, pretend all day that it was not a very loaded roster that had great depth and the New York Jets straight up sucked.  There is a reason the Browns almost got to the AFC title game, and it was not all because of Baker Mayfield.  

I didn't gloss over it.  I just didn't say anything because we agree that he had a good OL in front of him.  If you really needed me to say that, then I just did.  His OL was good.  David Njoku is nothing special.  Prior to this year, he averaged 62 targets in his 5 "healthy" seasons.  This past year, he had 123 targets.  If you want to call what he did prior special, go right ahead.  But you better be willing to lump a bunch of other TEs with the same meager production in that breath.

20 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

Oh and those three are still on the Cleveland Browns on the OL, wonder why, the Jets have had a rotating door on the OL and when Darnold was there they never had a consistent group much less good group.

NOBODY is dismissing that the Jets did a poor job of putting a quality supporting cast around him.  I just don't blindly believe that somehow that's the only reason why he wasn't successful.  And I don't think that just because you give him a good supporting cast will magically make a bad player good.

22 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

Like I said I would take Darnold and his potential to maybe do something over Brissett, Mariota etc...  Stupid?  Nah, and NFL guys talk, Kwesi was at San Francisco when John Lynch was in charge, do not pretend they did not talk about Darnold.  And as much as you totally disregard preseason, Sam Darnold preformed very well in preseason and in practice while with the 49ers. 

LIS, you're paying a premium because he played one season with arguably the best HC in the NFL.  That seems foolish at best, but it's not my money.  And I forgot we paid players based on how they practiced.  Silly me.

23 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

It gives them flexibility at QB as an organization to get Darnold, because then they do not have to be stupid and chase a QB in this draft and just see who falls.  Hopefully not give up 3 1st rounders to move up and get one 1st rounder.  Most likely a guy falls right to them and if he needs to sit a year, having Darnold around allows that.

I mean, at this point if the Vikings don't somehow end up with a QB using some combination of 11 and/or 23, I'll go laughing to the bank.  There's a reason why the divisional rival fans are laughing. And it's because of Sam Darnold.  The Vikings effectively mortgaged their future on this year's draft when they traded with the Texans.  They're walking out of this draft with a different QB as their QBOTF.  Whether that be at 11 or 23, or somewhere earlier via a trade-up.

29 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

Think they would be better off with Brissett at QB?  Hell no, Brissett is 31 and Mariota is 30.  Think they would be better off with Gardner Minshew?  Nah, and he gets $12.5 mil a year so costs more.  Sure he played well with the Colts but that was with an OC that knows him and they ran RPO action they did in Philadelphia and he did well with it, not sure he will have the success with the Raiders who run a different offense.  

No, I think they're in the EXACT same situation that those teams are.  They're using these guys as placeholders until their rookies are ready to play.  Washington didn't sign Mariota with the intention of him being their QBOTF.  New England didn't sign Brissett with the intention of him being their QBOTF.  They were signed as stopgap QBs.  Nothing more, nothing less.

[gopherwrestler]

https://x.com/dpbrugler/status/1777071577214980293?s=46&t=RFTOU6nU21Ccxf1USX7NNg
 

Dane Brugler

Texas DT T’Vondre Sweat was arrested early this morning and charged with DWI, according to @KXAN_News in Austin. 

Sweat is viewed as a potential day 2 draft pick.

[SemperFeist]

 

[SemperFeist]

I’m not sure if Sweat had a chance at hearing his name called in the 1st round, but this probably nixes any chance he had. 

One incident can be chalked up to immaturity and a life lesson, but if this incident is a continuation of past problems, it’s going to make teams think twice. 

[Purplepride323]

14 minutes ago, SemperFeist said:

I’m not sure if Sweat had a chance at hearing his name called in the 1st round, but this probably nixes any chance he had. 

One incident can be chalked up to immaturity and a life lesson, but if this incident is a continuation of past problems, it’s going to make teams think twice. 

The kid’s only 22. Wes Phillips just made this mistake and he’s twice his age. I’m not saying what he did was right but I’d doubt that he falls too much because of it. He’d be an instant starter on the Vikings no matter where we pick him. 

[Freakout]

What a way to kill your draft stock.

[Cearbhall]

He couldn't concentrate on staying clean for the short time leading up to the draft. There is a decent chance he'll mature, but there is also a risk that he won't. He is a higher risk selection now than he was yesterday.  That should cause his draft stock to drop.  This single incident may cause some teams to remove him from their board completely.

Just a short time before he could afford all the Uber rides he would ever need, this fellow probably cost himself quite a few Uber rides worth of income.

What a shame. A real shame!

[Ozzy]

1 minute ago, Cearbhall said:

He couldn't concentrate on staying clean for the short time leading up to the draft. There is a decent chance he'll mature, but there is also a risk that he won't. He is a higher risk selection now than he was yesterday.  That should cause his draft stock to drop.  This single incident may cause some teams to remove him from their board completely.

Just a short time before he could afford all the Uber rides he would ever need, this fellow probably cost himself quite a few Uber rides worth of income.

What a shame. A real shame!

True it sucks but sadly in the world today it happens a ton and most people do not get caught.

 

This did happen to Laremy Tunsil what on draft day that picture came out, and he is easily one of the best LTs in the NFL currently.  And I would say that look is worse than a DWI.  Jalen Carter and street racing a Georgia staffer and a teammate had a bit to do with killing both people, and he was still taken in the draft.  

 

So it is not the end of the world for Sweat but sure is not a great look.  The guy could still be a very good pro, even Jordan Addison last year and that speeding charge before the season to what get home and take care of his dog or something, looked awful but he had a good season still.

[vikingsrule]

Big difference between smoking in your house and driving while intoxicated. Really big difference there. 

[SemperFeist]

And both the gas mask incident with Tunsil and the racing incident with Carter caused both players to slip, and get drafted later than their talent suggested. 

This incident will likely do the same with Sweat.