BEAR FACE DOWN ARROW Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 35 minutes ago, Tyty said: 99.8% chance it happens imo Well why aren't you sure? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 Dee Ford would absolutely be worth a flyer and to see what he can do. I would go multiple years but not Big guaranteed. Not interested in Siemien. He has 1/4 the experience of Sanchez and neither can win an NFL game. We don’t need Nick Foles because we are not competing next season. Just keep Sanchez. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugashane Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 5 hours ago, ColGerBear said: Crazy thought: Day 1 of FA is over, Pace didn't get the great FAs he wanted, he has lots of cap to spare. Cousins didn't sign with anyone yet and has expressed interest in joining the Jaguars. Jacksonville calls and asks if you want to take Bortles, their 1st and want a future 3rd. (Comparison Osweiler -> Browns) While highly unlikely that they would have to give away a 1st as he is a starting caliber QB in a fairly QB-starved league, I would do it. Cutting Glennon, Sims and Cooper frees up something like $2-3 mil more than Bortles $19 mil owed. If we strike out on the top guys, then getting that first would allow us some serious draft maneuverability. I'd take him and then try to dangle him to the first team that has a QB injury. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 Trey Burton is right up there with Albert Wilson in terms of guys who make sense and would have a clear role. We can’t recrete Kelce with Shaheen, he is not that level of freak athlete, but we can recreate what he does with 2 guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZBearsFan Posted February 4, 2018 Author Share Posted February 4, 2018 2 hours ago, WindyCity said: Trey Burton is right up there with Albert Wilson in terms of guys who make sense and would have a clear role. We can’t recrete Kelce with Shaheen, he is not that level of freak athlete, but we can recreate what he does with 2 guys. I bet if you shaved the extra 22 lb off of Shaheen (combine weights) their speed measurables would be pretty damn close. Shaheen is a freak athlete in his own right - that’s what made him a 2nd round pick. I strongly suspect Pace and Nagy are gonna want to see what they have in the guys like Shaheen and Cohen in 2018 before paying reasonably big money in FA on guys who will directly impact their growth. Shaheen doesn’t have to be the best TE in the league (Kelce) to be a key cog in this offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51to54 Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 15 hours ago, ColGerBear said: Crazy thought: Day 1 of FA is over, Pace didn't get the great FAs he wanted, he has lots of cap to spare. Cousins didn't sign with anyone yet and has expressed interest in joining the Jaguars. Jacksonville calls and asks if you want to take Bortles, their 1st and want a future 3rd. (Comparison Osweiler -> Browns) Given what we got with Glennon, I had pondered why Pace didn't try and do the Osweiler deal himself. Especially, as we weren't going to compete in 2017 and Osweiler could sit on the bench as well as Glennon did and he'd do it with another 1st round pick in the bank to boot. Lots of moving parts to your proposed trade, but it would certainly boost the rebuild of the roster with some young talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superman(DH23) Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 16 minutes ago, AZBearsFan said: I bet if you shaved the extra 22 lb off of Shaheen (combine weights) their speed measurables would be pretty damn close. Shaheen is a freak athlete in his own right - that’s what made him a 2nd round pick. I strongly suspect Pace and Nagy are gonna want to see what they have in the guys like Shaheen and Cohen in 2018 before paying reasonably big money in FA on guys who will directly impact their growth. Shaheen doesn’t have to be the best TE in the league (Kelce) to be a key cog in this offense. Yeah to say Shaheen isnt a freak is beyond an oversimplification, its untrue. Hes a 6'7" 280 lbs monster with 4.7 straightline speed and basketball feet. As you said, the reason the guy from Ashland college went in the 2nd round as projected is bc he is a "planet" guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 1 hour ago, AZBearsFan said: I bet if you shaved the extra 22 lb off of Shaheen (combine weights) their speed measurables would be pretty damn close. Shaheen is a freak athlete in his own right - that’s what made him a 2nd round pick. I strongly suspect Pace and Nagy are gonna want to see what they have in the guys like Shaheen and Cohen in 2018 before paying reasonably big money in FA on guys who will directly impact their growth. Shaheen doesn’t have to be the best TE in the league (Kelce) to be a key cog in this offense. Who said anything about not being a key cog in the offense? Still need weapons. 2nd TE gets used in this offense even with Kelce. With Kelce they still target the 2nd guy 40 times. That is with the Kelce getting 170. Shaheen-100 Burton-60-70 That is a nice little combo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 1 hour ago, Superman(DH23) said: Yeah to say Shaheen isnt a freak is beyond an oversimplification, its untrue. Hes a 6'7" 280 lbs monster with 4.7 straightline speed and basketball feet. As you said, the reason the guy from Ashland college went in the 2nd round as projected is bc he is a "planet" guy. He is not Travis Kelce Kelce is the most athletic TE in the NFL. We are not going to have Shaheen being the #1 target on the team more than likely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 100 targets for Shaheen is a lot. There is good chance he doesn’t get there. Only 6 teams in the NFL had a TE with 100 or more targets. Which is why Burton interests me so much. We have seen him in a similar offense, he is stylistically different than Shaheen and between them they should handle the 130-140 targets that should run through the position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G08 Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 Just for argument's sake why can't we draft an oversized WR to be our Tre Burton? 6'2" 224 with a 4.62 dash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZBearsFan Posted February 4, 2018 Author Share Posted February 4, 2018 2 hours ago, WindyCity said: Who said anything about not being a key cog in the offense? Still need weapons. 2nd TE gets used in this offense even with Kelce. With Kelce they still target the 2nd guy 40 times. That is with the Kelce getting 170. Shaheen-100 Burton-60-70 That is a nice little combo. What do you imagine Burton costs as a FA? I’ve seen you projecting him to us as high as $7M per year. That’s top 12 TE money. If you’re paying him that he’s your #1 TE, and if you’re paying a FA TE #1 money the year after you draft a raw small school physical freak 45th overall then you’re saying you don’t have confidence that that 2nd year player can be the #1 TE you drafted him to be long term, without ever having given him a chance to be. I like Burton quite a bit, but I can’t see Pace doing that. I think we will replace Sims with a FA TE, but one who’s more of a vet know-what-he-is type. It wouldn’t shock me to see them give Brown a shot at being the 2nd receiving TE with a FA add being more of a blocker than receiver, especially if they make a big investment at WR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 2 hours ago, G08 said: Just for argument's sake why can't we draft an oversized WR to be our Tre Burton? 6'2" 224 with a 4.62 dash. Need picks in others areas Developmental time. We need someone to contribute and take some serious targets in 2018. A 5th round conversion project likely needs a year plus to do anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 27 minutes ago, AZBearsFan said: What do you imagine Burton costs as a FA? I’ve seen you projecting him to us as high as $7M per year. That’s top 12 TE money. If you’re paying him that he’s your #1 TE, and if you’re paying a FA TE #1 money the year after you draft a raw small school physical freak 45th overall then you’re saying you don’t have confidence that that 2nd year player can be the #1 TE you drafted him to be long term, without ever having given him a chance to be. I like Burton quite a bit, but I can’t see Pace doing that. I think we will replace Sims with a FA TE, but one who’s more of a vet know-what-he-is type. It wouldn’t shock me to see them give Brown a shot at being the 2nd receiving TE with a FA add being more of a blocker than receiver, especially if they make a big investment at WR. What I pay him doesn’t dictate where’s he is on the depth chart, Markus Wheaton makes 100x what Cam Meredith does and Meredith was always going to be our #1. 7 million is Dion Sims money, plus inflation. 7 million is Vance McDonald money. Dwayne Allen money. You can 100% pay Burton 6-7 million and have him be the #2 TE. The fact that Shaheen is cheap makes it even more feasable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZBearsFan Posted February 4, 2018 Author Share Posted February 4, 2018 50 minutes ago, WindyCity said: What I pay him doesn’t dictate where’s he is on the depth chart, Markus Wheaton makes 100x what Cam Meredith does and Meredith was always going to be our #1. 7 million is Dion Sims money, plus inflation. 7 million is Vance McDonald money. Dwayne Allen money. You can 100% pay Burton 6-7 million and have him be the #2 TE. The fact that Shaheen is cheap makes it even more feasable. Windy, you do understand that you’ve been killing Pace & Co. for giving “big” contracts to averageish players in Wheaton, Cooper, Sims & Glennon for months yet you’re advocating doing exactly the same thing with the likes of Albert Wilson and Trey Burton, right? How is the hypothetical Burton contract any different than the Sims deal last year other than that Sims was more of a blocker? It’s still top 15 starter money for a reserve player who even before Philly added a bunch of WR in 2017 (so when he had more opportunity) was just a role player producing at a replacement level. Most teams that are good teams but who also are able to pay huge money for top FA can do so because they have guys playing key roles at well below market rates. Having Shaheen as a lock starter the next 3 years at a non-1st round rate lets us spend that starter level money on an actual starter elsewhere where it will have more value to the team. We are in a REALLY good position to do that right now over the next few years with Mitch, Howard, Floyd, Shaheen and Cohen, and to a lesser extent Eddie Jackson. Specific to Shaheen/Burton, $7M not spent on Burton gets you a solid veteran starter at a lot of need positions. ILB. CB. Maybe WR. C/G. Spending it on a TE to play part time seems like a gross misallocation of resources. Also, the only reason Meredith was making less than Wheaton was because he was already under contract at that rate. It’s very clear which would have had more UFA value last offseason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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