2024 Draft

[JIllg]

2 minutes ago, Forge said:

I'd suggest grinding that Erick All tape. I'd put significantly more money on him being the TE the 49ers draft if they take one. 

Agreed. And I love me some Sinnott.

[Forge]

55 minutes ago, JIllg said:

Agreed. And I love me some Sinnott.

I wish I knew who those missing 9 are. I'd feel better about creating a mock draft for the 49ers. I know that they don't use all 30 every year, but 21 feels decidedly light.

 

[Forge]

Interesting data. I'm not sure the set is big enough to be overly meaningful, but if it were a first round receiver who met this criteria, I'd probably avoid that guy lol. 

This year he points out Javon Baker, Brendan Rice, Tez Walker 

[JIllg]

Okay, 49ers top 30 breakdown:

(part 1 of 4)

Kingsley Suamataia - I've written a lot about Kingsley here. He's got just about the perfect body for a 9ers offensive tackle - like Fuaga but with longer arms. He's physically very similar to Trent Williams. I want to like him. But man, there are some things that I don't like. I can deal with his vulnerability to inside counter moves - it's similar with Fuaga where both guys are bigger and work hard to protect themselves against speed rushers and can be beaten back across face. And in both cases, Fuaga and Kingley tend to put up enough resistance on those countermoves so that the win is pretty slow. But on run blocks, there's just not enough urgency or attention to detail. He gets to places and doesn't have an idea who to block too often. Or oversteps his mark or understeps it. I guess if you trust Foerester above all to smooth out run blocking technique, you can make the play. But I have concerns. And I also am worried about his calmness under pressure. When getting big dual responsibility on blitzes, I saw him freeze on tape twice and miss both dudes due to indecision. We've seen in the Super Bowl how such problems can lead to disaster.

Erick All, TE Iowa - Really nice, smooth athlete. Gets in and out of breaks well and can win on option routes. Has a bit of wiggle after the catch, but not an outstanding amount of wiggle. Wasn't a volume receiver at either Michigan or Iowa by schematic choice. Major injuries have derailed two consecutive seasons. 

Evan Anderson, DT FIU - very large, very unexplosive defensive tackle. Not even a good defender against the run by my eyes. This is like Cameron Latu last year where I am concerned that we have the dude in on a visit, lol.

Michael Hall Jr. / Brandon Dorlus, DI Ohio State / Oregon - two very similar smaller defensive tackle/end types that are very quick, but have short arms for the position. They make plays by beating guards (and sometimes tackles) with swim moves and hand swipes and by being super quick and getting upfield. But in the run game, if they aren't getting a TFL by winning immediately, they are getting washed away or jiu-jitsued into being somewhere they don't want to be. Really like both as rotational defensive tackles in pass rush packages, but not much more than that. They just don't have the length or mass to hold up against the run as DTs, and I don't even like them against the run as 5T or 7T defensive ends much, though I haven't seen Hall play that way very often. Hall's got the better chance to hold up as a defensive end on early downs as a tweener - he's the better athlete and he has slightly longer arms. And Hall also managed to make more TFLs in exchange for his washouts. Hell, he even looked fluid dropping into zone coverage. So yeah. Similar players, but I like Hall better by a touch.

Marshawn Kneeland, ED/DI Western Michigan - Different from the previous two, because while they are all ~90 percentile RAS athletes for DTs, Kneeland was that and played edge primarily in college and has solidly long arms for the position. Now, he tried to make his living by using those long arms to go and go straight through guys, but he definitely has them. I know for a fact that if you want Kneeland to 5T or 7T on early downs and stone tackles and tight ends, he will do that and do it with gusto. I trust him slightly less as an interior pass rusher than the previous two due to lack of reps, but his athleticism should be dynamite there. It's a pick your poison kind of thing - he might take a bit to get the pass rushing feel inside down, but he straight up has the significantly higher ceiling both against the run and the pass. Longer arms, stronger guy. Kneeland did weigh in at the combine at 267, but he was definitely a ~275-285 guy in college, imo.

Javon Baker, WR UCF - Among the best catch point receivers in the class. Doesn't have the speed to stack people, but is fluid in and out of breaks and at the line of scrimmage. Willing blocker for a guy that doesn't have a lot of body density. Was not a YAC threat in college; didn't break many tackles. Some of this is down to usage - he was put in a lot of positions downfield to maximize that catch point effectiveness. I kind of think that his fluidity will play to at least average YAC at the NFL, but there is not a lot of evidence of that on tape, lol. Didn't run many routes to the middle of the field. Still, think that he could be an unexciting but reliable #2 WR on a team with a variety of weapons or a good #3. 

Javon Bullard, S Georgia - Really impressive nickel/safety hybrid. Uses his arms well to shield off blocks and to make plays. I thought that he had longer arms on tape. Triggers aggressively to blow up screens. Quality tackler. Really sticky in man coverage for a safety type. Good at timing things up at the catch point when the receiver gets their hands out to make a play. The folks that have mentioned Jimmie Ward have it right on the money. I think if you want your defense to have a safety that plays as your second slot defender on passing downs, Bullard is going to be a tremendous player.

 

 

[WhyAmIHere]

2 hours ago, Forge said:

I'd suggest grinding that Erick All tape. I'd put significantly more money on him being the TE the 49ers draft if they take one. 

Love Erick All, but I have injury concerns.  I think the Niners are done picking guys with significant injury history.  But I still pick him in all my mocks. 

[WhyAmIHere]

If they can't get DeJean, I'd be more than happy with Bullard.  Two really good players.  

[WhyAmIHere]

1 hour ago, JIllg said:

 

Michael Hall Jr. / Brandon Dorlus, DI Ohio State / Oregon - two very similar smaller defensive tackle/end types that are very quick, but have short arms for the position. They make plays by beating guards (and sometimes tackles) with swim moves and hand swipes and by being super quick and getting upfield. But in the run game, if they aren't getting a TFL by winning immediately, they are getting washed away or jiu-jitsued into being somewhere they don't want to be. Really like both as rotational defensive tackles in pass rush packages, but not much more than that. They just don't have the length or mass to hold up against the run as DTs, and I don't even like them against the run as 5T or 7T defensive ends much, though I haven't seen Hall play that way very often. Hall's got the better chance to hold up as a defensive end on early downs as a tweener - he's the better athlete and he has slightly longer arms. And Hall also managed to make more TFLs in exchange for his washouts. Hell, he even looked fluid dropping into zone coverage. So yeah. Similar players, but I like Hall better by a touch.

 

 

 

So the thing that REALLY intrigues me about Hall is that he wasn't really asked to occupy blockers much at OSU from what I've seen; he was mainly asked to just penetrate, and he was very very good at that.  He also has put on about 15 lbs now and he ran a 4.78 at his new weight of about 295, that is insane..I think his body can hold up a lot more vs the run now, especially if they move him around more.  Also, the kid is only 20 years old! That's incredible to me. This guy absolutely massacred Michigan's OL (arguably best OL in the country) and he was only 20.  I think the upside is sky high if he has his head on straight. I'm also a believer in his versatility, his arms are fine at 33.5 and his twitchiness is rare as hell. 

 

I think if you take Hall, you're gonna get amazing pass rush immediately, and that's extremely valuable in this league - the rest he'll have to learn, but he has plenty of time.  The defense really fell off when Hargrave got hurt into the playoffs, and Hall would remedy that immediately.  I also think that if they are still concerned with the run, they can always get a fat run plugger like Boyd or Lovett later in the draft with far less capital....pass rush is at a premium.  

Edited April 21 by WhyAmIHere

[Forge]

12 minutes ago, WhyAmIHere said:

Love Erick All, but I have injury concerns.  I think the Niners are done picking guys with significant injury history.  But I still pick him in all my mocks. 

I only say that because the niners' percentage of drafting guys they had a 30 visit with in the first 3-4 rounds is extremely high, especially recently (Moody being a kicker didn't have a top 30 visit anywhere as far as I am aware, so I just don't think teams use them on kickers....for he and Wish both, we had an extensive work out but no top 30) 

Given where Sinnott is expected to go, I think they would have had a visit with him if he was on their list. 

[GW21]

1 hour ago, Forge said:

I only say that because the niners' percentage of drafting guys they had a 30 visit with in the first 3-4 rounds is extremely high, especially recently (Moody being a kicker didn't have a top 30 visit anywhere as far as I am aware, so I just don't think teams use them on kickers....for he and Wish both, we had an extensive work out but no top 30) 

Given where Sinnott is expected to go, I think they would have had a visit with him if he was on their list. 

We did have a private workout with Moody FWIW.

[JIllg]

7 hours ago, WhyAmIHere said:

So the thing that REALLY intrigues me about Hall is that he wasn't really asked to occupy blockers much at OSU from what I've seen; he was mainly asked to just penetrate, and he was very very good at that.  He also has put on about 15 lbs now and he ran a 4.78 at his new weight of about 295, that is insane..I think his body can hold up a lot more vs the run now, especially if they move him around more.  Also, the kid is only 20 years old! That's incredible to me. This guy absolutely massacred Michigan's OL (arguably best OL in the country) and he was only 20.  I think the upside is sky high if he has his head on straight. I'm also a believer in his versatility, his arms are fine at 33.5 and his twitchiness is rare as hell. 

 

I think if you take Hall, you're gonna get amazing pass rush immediately, and that's extremely valuable in this league - the rest he'll have to learn, but he has plenty of time.  The defense really fell off when Hargrave got hurt into the playoffs, and Hall would remedy that immediately.  I also think that if they are still concerned with the run, they can always get a fat run plugger like Boyd or Lovett later in the draft with far less capital....pass rush is at a premium.  

Hey, I get all of this. I agree with most if it. In response, I have 2 main points of contradiction. 

1. I would hesitate to immediately project that being 295 (or 299) means that Hall will have a feel for using that new weight properly even though moving as well as he did testing at that new weight is extremely encouraging. Hall tends to avoid taking on blocks at all costs, swimming a gap or two away even as a one tech and standing guys up very rarely. It takes feel and work to start doing it more. If he was doing it and he was ~290 all year, he'd be Byron Murphy. But hey, you are definitely right that his weight from his combine and pro day and his athletic testing and his short height giving him extra leverage gives him at least a chance of getting there. But I am very hesitant to assume facts not in evidence.

2. I would also hesitate to focus in too much on one game. Hall was absolutely dominant against Michigan and actually went up and under guys' chests more often than I ever saw him in other games, winning in a variety of ways and not being nearly so predictable or easy to handle. He even wasn't nearly as much of a negative on running plays where he wasn't getting a TFL. But it was by far his best game film of the season. On one hand, dominating some fine NFL rosterables/starters on the inside is very impressive. On the other, not being nearly so impactful on several game tapes against worse competition is concerning. It could straight up be boredom. I've seen that in film before. It could also be any number of other things.

Long story short, I still really like his potential - he is an undoubtably impressive athlete - and would be fine with the pick if we take him at the bottom of the second, but I would never spend more than that on what projects to be a two down player that only wins in one way. The rest is only hopeful upside.

[adamq]

Last year TEs went quite a bit higher than anticipated, so they'll probably have to grab one in that 3rd round or risk being stuck with another Latu pick. 

[AustrianNiner]

Lombardi and Barrows each did a 7th round mock for the Athletic

Both went DL in R1 (Barrows: Newton, Lombardi: Darius Robinson)

Both went OL in R2: (B: Fisher, L: Rosengarten)

Both drafted Baker and McCaffrey, as well as Caedan Wallace and Sione Vaki

The only somewhat surprising name that I haven't seen in connection with the Niners yet was CB Jarvis Brownlee Jr..

 

[StevenK]

It’s draft week! Soooo close! 

Seen a couple of rumors already this morning - Seattle and Rams may take a QB in the first depending on who. Supposedly they both “like” Nix. 
 

Some also think Murphy will be the first Def player taken in draft. 
 
Does anyone think that Jayden has burned any relationships within Washington with his comments from his visit? 

[Chrissooner49er]

58 minutes ago, AustrianNiner said:

Lombardi and Barrows each did a 7th round mock for the Athletic

Both went DL in R1 (Barrows: Newton, Lombardi: Darius Robinson)

Both went OL in R2: (B: Fisher, L: Rosengarten)

Both drafted Baker and McCaffrey, as well as Caedan Wallace and Sione Vaki

The only somewhat surprising name that I haven't seen in connection with the Niners yet was CB Jarvis Brownlee Jr..

 

Of those, I prefer Newton but do not believe there is any chance he will be there that late. Otherwise, intriguing drafts. 

[GW21]