Pool Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 33 minutes ago, Epyon said: Stats don't lie.... in his first 3 years Mitch was flat out better than Fields has been... He's no where near as good as people advocating to keep him make him out to be. He's had 3 years and shown NOTHING suggesting he's above a bottom tier QB. Only if you think Fields is a viable QB, when literally all actual evidence is to the contrary. No one is a "sure thing". It is however, a HELL of a lot more likely than Fields suddenly becoming good after 3 years of sucking. Also, statistically speaking, QBs taken #1 overall actually fair FAR better than average career wise, there was literally a twitter thread about it a few days/a week ago. Especially when said QB was productive as a Freshman and been considered a lock to be a #1 pick for multiple years. You either have a QB or you don't..... The fact that it's even a question between Fields + hypothetically 3x First round picks or a new QB should tell you all you need to know about Fields. If Fields was good there wouldn't be a debate, literally at all. He's not, which means the debate is over and you get a new QB. Fields will be a starting QB next year. Mitch will not. Explain that please if you really think Mitch was/is a better NFL QB. Fields has shown enough and there is still a lot of untapped potential there. That's the argument for Fields. Saying he has not gotten better is flat out ridiculous because he very obviously has improved. Again, people who want to stick with Fields are doing so with the notion that he -could- better, not that he has been good. Please reread that last part bc I think you don't/won't acknowledge that no one here is arguing that Fields has been good. Fields is a viable NFL QB. It's why he has been starting and will start next year. I don't know what other evidence there is? The facts are he is currently an NFL caliber starting QB. Finally, let me reiterate. The argument is not that Fields has been good. He has not. Everyone here acknowledges that. Please reread that again. The argument is you are banking on his still untapped potential kinda like you'd be doing with Williams. This argument is furthered and validated by how bad the surrounding pieces on the offense have been and how awful Nagy/Getsy were. I hope this clears up some of your confusion, and for arguments sake please stop with the strawman arguments and hyperbole. Cheers. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Epyon Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 35 minutes ago, Pool said: Fields will be a starting QB next year. Mitch will not. Explain that please if you really think Mitch was/is a better NFL QB. And we'll see where Fields is after he's been in the league as long as Mitch.... Doesn't change the fact that Mitch was flat out better than Fields statistically for his first 3 years. The fact that Mitch was still a bottom feeder doesn't bode well for Fields' career trajectory. Also Mitch was still a starter here going into year 4, but yes, let's "Daniel Jones" this franchise and hold on to Fields. It worked out wonderfully for New York. 37 minutes ago, Pool said: Fields has shown enough and there is still a lot of untapped potential there He's shown less than Trubisky....at some point he just is what he is. 40 minutes ago, Pool said: his still untapped potential kinda like you'd be doing with William One of them has 3 years of bottom tier play, one of them has 3 years as being projected #1 overall in his draft class. 42 minutes ago, Pool said: Fields is a viable NFL QB. It's why he has been starting and will start next year Again, Mitch started year 4 as well. Hell Mariota was a starter for 5 years (also better than Fields in first 3 years, also a bust). It didn't make him good or worth keeping. Daniel Jones has had 5 full years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLCbear Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 8 hours ago, Madmike90 said: You know...my biggest concern is that you might actually believe the nonsense you are peddling... Well Well Well Mr QB whisper your tune has certainly changed... from normally "unquestioned #1 pick" to "I had him as borderline undraftable" also 👏 on that Mac Jones is is the next Joe Burrow 👍 well done man outstanding work let's get you in to an NFL front office tomorrow... Now that it has been proven by your own words you are either a liar or simply a fantasist let me break it down nice and simple for you since you haven't been able to understand it in the hundreds of posts I have made over the last 84 pages...my position on Fields is that he has had nothing here but bad coaching, scheming, play calling and support...my position is if you drop him into a situation like San Fran or Miami and they would win double digit games year after year and go deep into the play offs consistently...he has all the physical talent in the work as well as being a quality thrower of the football when the scheme is build to his strength and he has the talent around him to take advantage of those strengths...we seen progression this year when we allowed him to throw the baller deeper and to talent like DJ & Kmet...my take is you find more talent around him and he can be just as productive as a Purdy, Tua, Hurts or the majority of QBs who do find themselves in a position when the coaching, scheme, playcalling & talent around them put them in a position to win... To have the arrogance to suggest that athletes are somehow stupid is beyond me...these people are the elite of the elite in their sport and we have seen plenty of great athletes flame out...we have seen plenty of bad athletes excel...to think they are stupid is purely an insight in to your level of intelligence not theirs... Maybe you just don't have the ability to truly express yourself but to call Fields a bust simply isn't based in any sort of fact...could he himself play better? Of course...I (nor anyone else I can recall) have ever said anything different but time and time again he has been the reason we have even been in games...again I will go back to your belief that we will get good compensation for him...if you can't understand why those two beliefs can not work side by side then I honestly don't know what to tell you...you are probably the type of guy who was hoping he would fail so we would get a higher draft position...not understanding all that would ever do would be to lessen any potential compensation... And yes I do expect him to be traded...expecting something and wanting something are two different things...the dictionary meaning of both words can be googled...my preference is I don't want to drop another rookie QB into a bad spot and want to fully explore what we have in Fields by surrounding him with a great team where if he fails then we can drop a rookie or traded QB into a great team...my expectation is we don't pass on the chance to take a great talent at QB given we have been gifted the 1st overall pick without having to be bad enough to earn it... Now hopefully we have both learned something here...you...not to try and lie about your evaluation of a player & that you struggle to comprehend most of what people are saying about the future of this team and the position at QB and will work on that...and me...not to continue to engage with someone (you) who can't understand an argument from both sides...see that both options have their pros & cons...and overall all just want the best for this franchise rather than to to jump around pretending you got an evaluation right once upon a time... Take care little buddy WOWW! Our sweet Mike is GANGstA 🗡️ receipts from '21 😳 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLCbear Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 (edited) Watching games this weekend, esp after seeing QBs like Hurts and Tua getting bounced early, FEELing that PO pressure ! I kept trying to picture JF thriving under those circumstances ....keeping up with Mahomes Allen Burrow or even Lamar .... 😕 Edited January 23 by SLCbear Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topwop1 Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 10 hours ago, SLCbear said: Watching games this weekend, esp after seeing QBs like Hurts and Tua getting bounced early, FEELing that PO pressure ! I kept trying to picture JF thriving under those circumstances ....keeping up with Mahomes Allen Burrow or even Lamar .... 😕 Here's where I'm at with this and let me just say I have always liked JF but... Who is currently the best QB in the NFL? I don't think anyone can debate it's Mahomes The guy has taken his team to 6 straight AFC championships as the starter and already won two SBs. That's insane considering he's only been in the league 7 years now lol And now we hear that some high level personnel and draft pundits are comparing Caleb Williams to Mahomes by saying he has the kind of rare talent to be able to play the position like he does...and we are talking about passing up on this potential generational opportunity in hopes that the light suddenly clicks for Fields in year 4 under a new OC and with some added talent around him? Yes I know there are no guarantees with Caleb but you can say the same thing with Fields. His floor simply hasn't been good enough to be able to compete for championships..IMHO Can he get a lot better, yea of course he can, I don't see why not, but if you're Poles and Flus are you gambling on that happening or you taking your chances with the prodigy talent in Caleb? I know what I would be doing if I were in their position I don't see Caleb having a bad career. If you're Poles and you pass on that and he goes onto have even mild success somewhere else while you never get as far as winning a championship with JF then forget getting a job as a GM ever again. You'll forever be known as the guy who passed up Caleb 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topwop1 Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 Also just want to add... who scouted Mahomes while he was director of college scouting in KC? None other than Mr. Poles himself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuskieBear Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 28 minutes ago, topwop1 said: Here's where I'm at with this and let me just say I have always liked JF but... Who is currently the best QB in the NFL? I don't think anyone can debate it's Mahomes The guy has taken his team to 6 straight AFC championships as the starter and already won two SBs. That's insane considering he's only been in the league 7 years now lol And now we hear that some high level personnel and draft pundits are comparing Caleb Williams to Mahomes by saying he has the kind of rare talent to be able to play the position like he does...and we are talking about passing up on this potential generational opportunity in hopes that the light suddenly clicks for Fields in year 4 under a new OC and with some added talent around him? Yes I know there are no guarantees with Caleb but you can say the same thing with Fields. His floor simply hasn't been good enough to be able to compete for championships..IMHO Can he get a lot better, yea of course he can, I don't see why not, but if you're Poles and Flus are you gambling on that happening or you taking your chances with the prodigy talent in Caleb? I know what I would be doing if I were in their position I don't see Caleb having a bad career. If you're Poles and you pass on that and he goes onto have even mild success somewhere else while you never get as far as winning a championship with JF then forget getting a job as a GM ever again. You'll forever be known as the guy who passed up Caleb this is where i am. i personally think if JF improves and reaches his potential he gets to the hurts/tua tier. if caleb reaches his potential he's on the allen/burrow/mahomes tier. I'm not saying either JF or CW are going to be those guys or comparing them, i just think they would be on the QB tier 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLCbear Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 3 hours ago, topwop1 said: Here's where I'm at with this and let me just say I have always liked JF but... Who is currently the best QB in the NFL? I don't think anyone can debate it's Mahomes The guy has taken his team to 6 straight AFC championships as the starter and already won two SBs. That's insane considering he's only been in the league 7 years now lol And now we hear that some high level personnel and draft pundits are comparing Caleb Williams to Mahomes by saying he has the kind of rare talent to be able to play the position like he does...and we are talking about passing up on this potential generational opportunity in hopes that the light suddenly clicks for Fields in year 4 under a new OC and with some added talent around him? Yes I know there are no guarantees with Caleb but you can say the same thing with Fields. His floor simply hasn't been good enough to be able to compete for championships..IMHO Can he get a lot better, yea of course he can, I don't see why not, but if you're Poles and Flus are you gambling on that happening or you taking your chances with the prodigy talent in Caleb? I know what I would be doing if I were in their position I don't see Caleb having a bad career. If you're Poles and you pass on that and he goes onto have even mild success somewhere else while you never get as far as winning a championship with JF then forget getting a job as a GM ever again. You'll forever be known as the guy who passed up Caleb The NFC needs a QB or 2 that can hang w/Mahomes Allen Burrow, even Lamar and Herbert Would be SOOO dam nice for it to be us 🥹🥳🫠 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dll2000 Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 On 1/20/2024 at 6:47 PM, BEAR FACE DOWN ARROW said: What do you guys like to read? I know dll is a sci-fi guy like me but I've been branching out lately. You might like a book I just finished called Julian Comstock. An American future that looks a lot like Combo of 1800s US and a theocracy. Good writing though, and I love an adventure story. I have read more fantasy than sci-fi. But I also have read a lot of sci-fi over the years. Sometimes they overlap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dll2000 Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 Hoge believes Caleb's floor as player is as good as Fields is right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugashane Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 (edited) 1 hour ago, dll2000 said: Hoge believes Caleb's floor as player is as good as Fields is right now. Overall as a player I disagree, even being a big fan of Williams. But if looking from a pure passing standpoint I could definitely see that argument though. Fields has all the arm talent you want, but missing too many open reads, having sporadic accuracy even on easy throws while not under duress, and his longer release time make it just that much harder for him to be a real threat as a passer once you take away running lanes. That being said I think Fields advances further, and don't for a second think his peak is below Williams' floor as a passer. But I have Williams ceiling as a passer much higher than I do Fields'. Edit - Also do you have any favorite authors or settings? Just saw the post above the one I replied to. Edited January 23 by Sugashane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dll2000 Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 1 hour ago, Sugashane said: Overall as a player I disagree, even being a big fan of Williams. But if looking from a pure passing standpoint I could definitely see that argument though. Fields has all the arm talent you want, but missing too many open reads, having sporadic accuracy even on easy throws while not under duress, and his longer release time make it just that much harder for him to be a real threat as a passer once you take away running lanes. That being said I think Fields advances further, and don't for a second think his peak is below Williams' floor as a passer. But I have Williams ceiling as a passer much higher than I do Fields'. Edit - Also do you have any favorite authors or settings? Just saw the post above the one I replied to. Settings? No just good books. I don't like everything below wrote, but I probably read most of it. I like Brandon Sanderson, Michael Sullivan, Dave Duncan, Orson Scott Card (he can be a bit hit and miss, but he has a lot of good stuff), Peter Brett, Pierce Brown The Pierce Brown Red Rising saga series might be my current favorite. Kind of a sci fi, fantasy that starts out in a future hunger games type setting and morphs into a space opera spanning the solar system over time. I read Game of Thrones books an age ago. Barely remember them now. I remember liking most of them. Way before TV series. Name of the Wind by Patrick Rothfuss was pretty good. James Corey is a pen name for the sci fi "Expansion" Books - you can see the TV series on Amazon Prime which was a pretty good adaptation. Those books are pretty good for most part. A few weren't that great. Lightbringer series by Brett Weeks was very entertaining. I would recommend that. If you like any of those and get through them I can recommend more. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugashane Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 1 hour ago, dll2000 said: Settings? No just good books. I don't like everything below wrote, but I probably read most of it. I like Brandon Sanderson, Michael Sullivan, Dave Duncan, Orson Scott Card (he can be a bit hit and miss, but he has a lot of good stuff), Peter Brett, Pierce Brown The Pierce Brown Red Rising saga series might be my current favorite. Kind of a sci fi, fantasy that starts out in a future hunger games type setting and morphs into a space opera spanning the solar system over time. I read Game of Thrones books an age ago. Barely remember them now. I remember liking most of them. Way before TV series. Name of the Wind by Patrick Rothfuss was pretty good. James Corey is a pen name for the sci fi "Expansion" Books - you can see the TV series on Amazon Prime which was a pretty good adaptation. Those books are pretty good for most part. A few weren't that great. Lightbringer series by Brett Weeks was very entertaining. I would recommend that. If you like any of those and get through them I can recommend more. Sorry by settings I was thinking general ones - Tolkien's Middle Earth, Eberron and Forgotten Realms or Shannara series by Terry Brooks for more DnD style, etc. Some of these settings are hashed out but have multiple authors writing differnt stories in the same realm - some even overlapping with one another, and that keeps adding more and more to the world as a whole. That's what I meant by settings. I have friends who argue over which setting is the best (I like to stir the pot) I've got one trying to get me to read the Wheel of Time series. I appreciate the list of authors. Wrote them down to read for later. I think I will just start really focusing on getting some of these audible 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEAR FACE DOWN ARROW Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 BOOKS: I was big into Koontz and King years ago. The Dark Tower series remains somehing I'll revisit every couple years, still so weird and cool, always thought it was my generations Hobbitt. At least until Game of Thrones came out. Didn't care for that one; bought book 1 in an airport and then read a couple chapters, decided I didn't like it, and turned it into a drinking game with my sister in law. Game was drink every time the word "bastard" or "rape" appeared for ~3hrs of a flight. THen I had a hangover associated with that book which really didn't help. I liked the Expanse series, although dropped off after book 7 or so. I have the series first ~6books if anyone wants them. Love to share books. Very imaginative, sprawling, but good characters and if you're into physics the spaceflight holds up, at least until things get weird. Favorite author of all time is Iain Banks. Iain M Banks for the scifi stuff which I prefer. His regular fiction is very very dark. Most of his Scifi focuses on an advanced civilization called The Culture. He kinda took the inevitable rise of AI and machines but turned the trope a bit where instead of rebelling and killing everyone, the AIs take over and suggest all the biological people just **** off and have fun while they run the place. Very big ideas but funny and thoughtful. Weirdly all the psycho billionaires are really into him even though he'd probably think they were twats. Best book I read lately was weird fiction, Nabokov's Pale Fire. Weird to find a book in your 40s that hits like you're a 16 year old just reading things for the first time, but that book was a trip. If you can figure it out let me know, as it's written like a puzzle. Very clear page by page but at the end you're left to wonder what or who was real. As far as fantasy, just wrapped up the "Atlas" series by Olivie Blake. Loved the first one, got through the second one, and thought the third one was a mess. Me and the kids are pretty excited about a graphic novel coming out in a few weeks condluing the "Amulet" series. Special to me as they both learned to read to see what was happening in the first 8, and then we had to wait like 4 years for the finale. Lots of books I read these days are to keep up with what they're into. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuskieBear Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 damn justin read all those books? if it's not posted on social media, does it even happen? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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