NCOUGHMAN Posted October 4, 2023 Author Share Posted October 4, 2023 22 hours ago, MrOaktown_56 said: Wow still haven’t gone over 20 points 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCOUGHMAN Posted October 4, 2023 Author Share Posted October 4, 2023 8 hours ago, bucksavage1 said: https://x.com/NFL_DovKleiman/status/1709408573434765563?s=20 Yikes…the mutiny starts Knew this was coming Mark is smart tho cause we can never get boo’d outa Vegas if our fans aren’t there. hearing that home crowd roar for us in sofi was invigorating and reminded me of Oakland. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucksavage1 Posted October 4, 2023 Share Posted October 4, 2023 2 hours ago, NCOUGHMAN said: Knew this was coming Mark is smart tho cause we can never get boo’d outa Vegas if our fans aren’t there. hearing that home crowd roar for us in sofi was invigorating and reminded me of Oakland. I think this entire thing went sour when Tom Brady decide to retire and sign with us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCOUGHMAN Posted October 4, 2023 Author Share Posted October 4, 2023 20 minutes ago, bucksavage1 said: I think this entire thing went sour when Tom Brady decide to retire and sign with us If that’s the case then jmd is useless without Brady and it was sour since day 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucksavage1 Posted October 4, 2023 Share Posted October 4, 2023 11 minutes ago, NCOUGHMAN said: If that’s the case then jmd is useless without Brady and it was sour since day 1 I mean yea but the issues with this team is multi layered. From Gruden draft blunders, to losing Ruggs, to not draft Carr successor several years ago and hanging on him way too long Yea this offense could be top tier with Brady. Without him, QBs have been confused. No surprise that Stidham looked the best due to him having what 4-5 seasons in it Brady would have also been the leader in the clubhouse that JMD isn’t 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted October 4, 2023 Share Posted October 4, 2023 1 hour ago, bucksavage1 said: I mean yea but the issues with this team is multi layered. From Gruden draft blunders, to losing Ruggs, to not draft Carr successor several years ago and hanging on him way too long Yea this offense could be top tier with Brady. Without him, QBs have been confused. No surprise that Stidham looked the best due to him having what 4-5 seasons in it Brady would have also been the leader in the clubhouse that JMD isn’t I wish more fans were not prisoners of the moment and could realize this. Roster construction takes time and consistency, something Raiders can't get right. Everyone is quick to point the out the current regimes struggles. But it's a rolling problem. Davis is on GM 3 and each has left their own mess of draft mistakes, free agent misses, etc. Until they can identify the right group to lead this team, this is the fate that will be suffered. Firing JMD just means more roster turnover and starting over. Davis needs to find a way to get things right so they have something to build on vs. trying to patchwork a roster together each year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
true2form Posted October 5, 2023 Share Posted October 5, 2023 23 hours ago, big_palooka said: I wish more fans were not prisoners of the moment and could realize this. Roster construction takes time and consistency, something Raiders can't get right. Everyone is quick to point the out the current regimes struggles. But it's a rolling problem. Davis is on GM 3 and each has left their own mess of draft mistakes, free agent misses, etc. Until they can identify the right group to lead this team, this is the fate that will be suffered. Firing JMD just means more roster turnover and starting over. Davis needs to find a way to get things right so they have something to build on vs. trying to patchwork a roster together each year. In theory you are correct. The problem is, this regime didn't come in and blow things up like they should've. Even Gruden got that right. Hell these guys weren't even smart enough to blow it up year two. They dug this hole for themselves and you can't blame that on past regimes. If you're not going to go full rebuild, then you have to have results, even if it's just improvement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCOUGHMAN Posted October 5, 2023 Author Share Posted October 5, 2023 3 minutes ago, true2form said: In theory you are correct. The problem is, this regime didn't come in and blow things up like they should've. Even Gruden got that right. Hell these guys weren't even smart enough to blow it up year two. They dug this hole for themselves and you can't blame that on past regimes. If you're not going to go full rebuild, then you have to have results, even if it's just improvement. Speaking of digging holes for themselves do we get the chandler Jones $ back? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angleae Posted October 5, 2023 Share Posted October 5, 2023 1 hour ago, NCOUGHMAN said: Speaking of digging holes for themselves do we get the chandler Jones $ back? As far as cap hit goes, we're eating $12,268,000 in dead money next year from him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronjon1990 Posted October 5, 2023 Share Posted October 5, 2023 On 10/4/2023 at 1:50 PM, big_palooka said: I wish more fans were not prisoners of the moment and could realize this. Roster construction takes time and consistency, something Raiders can't get right. Everyone is quick to point the out the current regimes struggles. But it's a rolling problem. Davis is on GM 3 and each has left their own mess of draft mistakes, free agent misses, etc. Until they can identify the right group to lead this team, this is the fate that will be suffered. Firing JMD just means more roster turnover and starting over. Davis needs to find a way to get things right so they have something to build on vs. trying to patchwork a roster together each year. It is indeed a Mark Davis problem to a large degree. The man is living in the past with his minivan, Nokia cell phone, and Friar Tuck haircut. This isn't another bash on McDaniels, because he's just a circumstance in this regard. But look at what Mark has tried to do over the last half decade since the move to Vegas was announced: First, he went back to our last SB run....20+ years ago and threw FU money at a guy who hadn't coached in almost a decade and wasn't even that good when he last coached...and NEVER drafted well. When that didn't work, where did he look? The Patriots. But let's really think about it- why? Yes, they'd had a dominant run with Brady, the GOAT, at QB. But have the Pats even honestly drafted that well? Brady helped make it work, but the Pats seemed to do far better with attracting FA's supplement Brady rather than actually drafting and building around him. Yes, the odd great pick like Gronk came about here and there, but a knock that Bill Belichick hasn't been criticized enough for is the almost laughable inability to draft well, especially over the last decade or so. FA's came and went over the years with the Patriots, almost like it was a rite of passage, and that works when you're already winning and guys wanna come chase a ring. Does it work to build up a losing franchise? No sir, it does not. I understand the general idea of "let's imitate the Patriots". The sincerest form.of flattery. It is, after all, a copycat league. Problem is Mark is trying to copycat from 2 decades back by bringing guys in from systems that haven't exactly been treated well by time and without a full blown set of HOF talent to keep things running (some of our guys, the Tampa Bay defense Gruden got from Dungy, Tom and Gronk and a few other guys throughout the Pats last 2 decades). Once those core pieces- few of whom were top 10 picks, meaning they kinda sorta struck some gold unwittingly (and everyone does- we did with Maxx, nothing wrong with it)- were gone, things unraveled. I never understood reaching back to the last millennium with Gruden and I'll never understand doing something similar by trying to emulate New England. Tom played forever and was such an outlier that it probably never gets replicated unless we see something similar with KC or something. Without Tom, what have the Pats honestly been over the last 15 years? Probably a lot closer to an 8-8, 9-7 team than the consistent SB contenders than people want to admit. That's been a bone of contention for me regarding the "Patriot Way"- Oh, yeah, just find a record breaking HOF QB and a couple of HOF players over the next few years and it'll all be gravy? If it was that easy, everyone would do it. Mark has to stop living in the past and be willing to look at more than rings and records. Gruden was a consistent 7-9 win guy in Tampa with the rare big year. That's a middle of the pack system. The Patriots, sans HOF QB, look like an 8-9 win team with some highs and lows. Both are middle of the pack systems, and that might even be a little generous. Mark needs to stop trying to copy the past success of others and find it elsewhere. Or, at least copy something more current and quantifiable (see: the Lions). But if he keeps trying to just replicate what was cool 15, 20 years ago, we're just going to remain stuck. We all know why he wanted Gruden and we all know why he wanted the Patriots West. I don't think either was something we should've spent the years trying to emulate. Leave the Great Value version of things to those jackasses in Denver, I say. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCOUGHMAN Posted October 5, 2023 Author Share Posted October 5, 2023 39 minutes ago, Angleae said: As far as cap hit goes, we're eating $12,268,000 in dead money next year from him. Somfb 🤦🏽♂️🤦🏽♂️🤦🏽♂️🤦🏽♂️ Come on jmdz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightmare Posted October 5, 2023 Share Posted October 5, 2023 3 hours ago, NCOUGHMAN said: Speaking of digging holes for themselves do we get the chandler Jones $ back? 1 hour ago, Angleae said: As far as cap hit goes, we're eating $12,268,000 in dead money next year from him. I heard on a podcast (can’t remember which one, but possibly Around The NFL) that there are legal proceedings ongoing regarding Jones’ contract. I think there’s a good chance that given Chandler’s erratic behavior, culminating in his arrest, we probably have cause to void some, if not all of those guarantees. If I remember correctly the same kind of thing happened when Antonio Brown went mad. I know these contracts are advertised as “guaranteed money” but there are get out clauses in these deals if players, for example, do the kind of stuff that AB, Jones or (in an even worse case) Henry Ruggs do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCOUGHMAN Posted October 5, 2023 Author Share Posted October 5, 2023 25 minutes ago, Nightmare said: I heard on a podcast (can’t remember which one, but possibly Around The NFL) that there are legal proceedings ongoing regarding Jones’ contract. I think there’s a good chance that given Chandler’s erratic behavior, culminating in his arrest, we probably have cause to void some, if not all of those guarantees. If I remember correctly the same kind of thing happened when Antonio Brown went mad. I know these contracts are advertised as “guaranteed money” but there are get out clauses in these deals if players, for example, do the kind of stuff that AB, Jones or (in an even worse case) Henry Ruggs do. I hope so cause that’s just another shi stain for this regime Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted October 6, 2023 Share Posted October 6, 2023 14 hours ago, ronjon1990 said: It is indeed a Mark Davis problem to a large degree. The man is living in the past with his minivan, Nokia cell phone, and Friar Tuck haircut. This isn't another bash on McDaniels, because he's just a circumstance in this regard. But look at what Mark has tried to do over the last half decade since the move to Vegas was announced: First, he went back to our last SB run....20+ years ago and threw FU money at a guy who hadn't coached in almost a decade and wasn't even that good when he last coached...and NEVER drafted well. When that didn't work, where did he look? The Patriots. But let's really think about it- why? Yes, they'd had a dominant run with Brady, the GOAT, at QB. But have the Pats even honestly drafted that well? Brady helped make it work, but the Pats seemed to do far better with attracting FA's supplement Brady rather than actually drafting and building around him. Yes, the odd great pick like Gronk came about here and there, but a knock that Bill Belichick hasn't been criticized enough for is the almost laughable inability to draft well, especially over the last decade or so. FA's came and went over the years with the Patriots, almost like it was a rite of passage, and that works when you're already winning and guys wanna come chase a ring. Does it work to build up a losing franchise? No sir, it does not. I understand the general idea of "let's imitate the Patriots". The sincerest form.of flattery. It is, after all, a copycat league. Problem is Mark is trying to copycat from 2 decades back by bringing guys in from systems that haven't exactly been treated well by time and without a full blown set of HOF talent to keep things running (some of our guys, the Tampa Bay defense Gruden got from Dungy, Tom and Gronk and a few other guys throughout the Pats last 2 decades). Once those core pieces- few of whom were top 10 picks, meaning they kinda sorta struck some gold unwittingly (and everyone does- we did with Maxx, nothing wrong with it)- were gone, things unraveled. I never understood reaching back to the last millennium with Gruden and I'll never understand doing something similar by trying to emulate New England. Tom played forever and was such an outlier that it probably never gets replicated unless we see something similar with KC or something. Without Tom, what have the Pats honestly been over the last 15 years? Probably a lot closer to an 8-8, 9-7 team than the consistent SB contenders than people want to admit. That's been a bone of contention for me regarding the "Patriot Way"- Oh, yeah, just find a record breaking HOF QB and a couple of HOF players over the next few years and it'll all be gravy? If it was that easy, everyone would do it. Mark has to stop living in the past and be willing to look at more than rings and records. Gruden was a consistent 7-9 win guy in Tampa with the rare big year. That's a middle of the pack system. The Patriots, sans HOF QB, look like an 8-9 win team with some highs and lows. Both are middle of the pack systems, and that might even be a little generous. Mark needs to stop trying to copy the past success of others and find it elsewhere. Or, at least copy something more current and quantifiable (see: the Lions). But if he keeps trying to just replicate what was cool 15, 20 years ago, we're just going to remain stuck. We all know why he wanted Gruden and we all know why he wanted the Patriots West. I don't think either was something we should've spent the years trying to emulate. Leave the Great Value version of things to those jackasses in Denver, I say. I've never stopped to look at it this way, but you're right. Mark has somewhat ignored the direction the NFL is going in favor of what worked previously. Part of running any successful business is spotting trends and getting in front of them. But that is sort of the Raiders franchise. They are steeped in history, nostalgia with past success and players. Even the guys close to Davis who have helped him in hiring, etc. have been relics of the past. I wonder where Brady will factor into all of this if/when he gets his ownership stake. Wonder what he thinks of McDaniels and this way of doing things. Maybe his acumen and insight to the game can be an asset. Davis has a weird obsession over him. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronjon1990 Posted October 6, 2023 Share Posted October 6, 2023 (edited) 4 hours ago, big_palooka said: I've never stopped to look at it this way, but you're right. Mark has somewhat ignored the direction the NFL is going in favor of what worked previously. Part of running any successful business is spotting trends and getting in front of them. But that is sort of the Raiders franchise. They are steeped in history, nostalgia with past success and players. Even the guys close to Davis who have helped him in hiring, etc. have been relics of the past. I wonder where Brady will factor into all of this if/when he gets his ownership stake. Wonder what he thinks of McDaniels and this way of doing things. Maybe his acumen and insight to the game can be an asset. Davis has a weird obsession over him. As long as he goes Good Elway instead of Bad Elway, should be alright. I wonder if Mark just desperately wants him to have ownership stake so he can sit down with him once and for all, Brady donning a Raiders logo, and get Tom to say it was a fumble. I don't know if it's a love affair or a boogeyman obsession lol Edited October 6, 2023 by ronjon1990 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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