The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly: we're picking 16th edition

[bucksavage1]

2 hours ago, ronjon1990 said:

This is why I don't even care to give it a go. 

We've looked like we're just a QB away....but we've played the drizzling turds of the league so far. The fact we're barely beating some of them tells me more than the W/L record. We're 6 weeks into the season amd have played exactly 1 team with a winning record, much less any legitimate playoff hopes, amd they slaughtered us (Pittsburgh is 3-2 and on a bye, so I guess they technically count too, but they have zero playoff hopes).

Denver is bad. New England is bad. Pittsburgh is bad. Green Bay isn't bottomed out yet, but they're certainly not trending positively. LA isn't particularly good and Staley is a massive choker. 

Hell, New England and Denver are both legit contenders for the number 1 pick FFS while Pittsburgh and Green Bay could be amongst our competitors for a QBOTF. Russell Wilson, Kenny Pickett, Jordan Love, and Mac Jones are bottom 5-6 QBs in the league at this point, so I'm still not even sold on what "improvements" we're seeing not being a mirage. 

Beyond that surface level, our offense just isn't a QB away. We scheme our best guys out of games almost entirely and the blocking is suspect. Jimmy isn't good, but we're still a team that isn't good around the QB either whether it be supporting cast, coaching, or sideline decision making. I don't care that Josh can sit down with a notebook and draw some X's, O's, and squiggles. I don't care that his play designs look good from time to time, as that's worthless if the guy can't find talent or make adjustments or not make boneheaded calls. It will never matter that his system is good if he lacks the HC traits. The Legion of Boom defense was systematically and schematically great, but Seattle's prime DC's were astounding duds as HC's. 

You mad that the team is improving against the narrative you wanted all off season of a dumpster fire?

[BackinBlack]

3 minutes ago, bucksavage1 said:

You mad that the team is improving against the narrative you wanted all off season of a dumpster fire?

The D is 100% improving. 
Not sure if I can confidently say the team is improving right now, as the O has clearly regressed. 
The coaching decisions, play calling I dont see as improving, call it a draw. 
STs, if anything has regressed, but limited attempts as the O is stuggling. 

yes we are 3-3, end of the day thats all that matters. Which is improvment from what 2-4 after 6 last year.

I am very excited for the Lion game. 
The bills game there was no way I saw the bills losing after MNF, but they destroyed us pretty bad. 

I want to see where we stack up against a good team. Lions are our next shot! 
We beat the lions and ill be very pumped 

[Geezy]

5 hours ago, bucksavage1 said:

Winning is never stupid. It is building a program. If you ever want to attract the Javon Hargrove or CJ Garner Johnson FAs, then winning is important . Raiders for a long time have been a place for players to stop by and get paid then leave. The lions started to win games last season and look at them now 

this is where im at. These guys are professionals, and all we are going to attract if we keep losing are guys looking to cash in. I dont want guys checking out, this is the main reason i havent completely given up on McD, these guys are still playing hard despite their limitations. I think were a QB away from being in playoff contention. QB, DT, RT, OG, CB are our biggest needs imo, we should have a bunch of cap and all our picks to make stuff happen. Everyone predicted 7-9 wins being the barometer for a decent season, and we are well on our way to that without a competant QB. I know McD isnt for everyone, but having a QB with this much limitations has to hurt your play calling. 

[Tank4Drake]

“The D is improving” let’s settle down guys… we’ve seen our D go on mini streaks in the past against bad offenses. We just played the worst NFL Offense of the past 3-4 years. No point in getting excited over that. We also play a horrible offense this week in the Bears, a Bottom 3 Offense. 

2 weeks from now on Monday Night against the Lions is a true test of the D. Whether we put together a mini streak against horrendous offenses and are fools gold, or if they truly are turning a corner (doubt it). 

[Darbsk]

2 hours ago, ronjon1990 said:

This is why I don't even care to give it a go. 

We've looked like we're just a QB away....but we've played the drizzling turds of the league so far. The fact we're barely beating some of them tells me more than the W/L record. We're 6 weeks into the season amd have played exactly 1 team with a winning record, much less any legitimate playoff hopes, amd they slaughtered us (Pittsburgh is 3-2 and on a bye, so I guess they technically count too, but they have zero playoff hopes).

Denver is bad. New England is bad. Pittsburgh is bad. Green Bay isn't bottomed out yet, but they're certainly not trending positively. LA isn't particularly good and Staley is a massive choker. 

Hell, New England and Denver are both legit contenders for the number 1 pick FFS while Pittsburgh and Green Bay could be amongst our competitors for a QBOTF. Russell Wilson, Kenny Pickett, Jordan Love, and Mac Jones are bottom 5-6 QBs in the league at this point, so I'm still not even sold on what "improvements" we're seeing not being a mirage. 

Beyond that surface level, our offense just isn't a QB away. We scheme our best guys out of games almost entirely and the blocking is suspect. Jimmy isn't good, but we're still a team that isn't good around the QB either whether it be supporting cast, coaching, or sideline decision making. I don't care that Josh can sit down with a notebook and draw some X's, O's, and squiggles. I don't care that his play designs look good from time to time, as that's worthless if the guy can't find talent or make adjustments or not make boneheaded calls. It will never matter that his system is good if he lacks the HC traits. The Legion of Boom defense was systematically and schematically great, but Seattle's prime DC's were astounding duds as HC's. 

I get the frustration but funnily enough, I do think our offence is a QB (and maybe an Olineman) away. Which leads me to my next point;

I also get the McDaniels criticism, a lot is deserved and he’s had a number of outright brain farts and plain bad calls but it’s clear watching the film that he is scheming guys open. Adams, Tucker, Renfrow and Mayer have all been open and missed numerous times. Now, you’d be absolutely correct to assert that he hand picked the QB and it’s on him, and I wouldn’t argue but that doesn’t alter the fact that the receivers are open if a QB can get them the ball. 

As you know, I’m not wholly against McDaniels and admittedly in a very small minority 😁 though I do appreciate he’s made some very bad errors. I think if we got good RT play and the QB would unleash a little we’d be in a much better place offence-wise. I wish we’d take a page out of Al Davis’ playbook and within our first drive, within the first few plays in fact, just launch a deep ball to keep the D honest. I feel the lack of confidence of Garoppolo to throw deep (rather than physical ability to throw the deep ball) is what is really holding us back, and McDaniels is trying to adapt to that. Garoppolo just seems hesitant all round, hence a number of late and inaccurate throws where he normally excels.

I agree with Hondo Carpenter who says he feels McDaniels just doesn’t have confidence in his QB. McDaniels hand picked that QB so he bears ultimate responsibility but I think we’d look a heck of a lot better and the run game would suddenly come alive if we could somehow drop a decent, confident QB into the team from somewhere, even though his skills are waning and he was never a great player to begin with, I feel the offence looked better with Hoyer in there.

I do agree with the improvements on the D being not totally convincing until we play an actual good offence, that part I do agree with though they have shown signs of life at least and I do have some reason to be a modicum optimistic.

[Darbsk]

51 minutes ago, Tank4Drake said:

“The D is improving” let’s settle down guys… we’ve seen our D go on mini streaks in the past against bad offenses. We just played the worst NFL Offense of the past 3-4 years. No point in getting excited over that. We also play a horrible offense this week in the Bears, a Bottom 3 Offense. 

2 weeks from now on Monday Night against the Lions is a true test of the D. Whether we put together a mini streak against horrendous offenses and are fools gold, or if they truly are turning a corner (doubt it). 

Whilst you are right to air caution, what has me optimistic is that we’re making bad offences look bad and we’ve seldom done that in the past. Usually we’re a kickstart for a struggling offence to get back on track so I’d say I’m cautiously optimistic but realise we’ve only played one good to great offence that smacked us.

Edited October 17, 2023 by Darbsk

[Devilshark69]

2 hours ago, bucksavage1 said:

You mad that the team is improving against the narrative you wanted all off season of a dumpster fire?

There’s a difference between “wanting” something to be, and calling it what it is. I don’t think I’ve ever read him saying he WANTS us to be a dumpster fire. I could make assumptions too buck.....I could “assume” your overall giddiness and forgiveness with mcdoofus is based on the fact that he dumped Carr, who you detest and wanted gone at all cost. However, I’m not assuming that. You celebrated jimmy crapolo coming here, now you’re all over the “bench him” train? Lol! The point being, some of y’all just absolutely search for reasons to “ha ha! I told ya so!” To your fellow nation fans, smh! We’ve ALL joked about getting lured in with a few wins mid season, only to be let down by seasons end. This season, last season and quite a few other seasons in the last 20yrs TBF. To be continued......👍🍻

[big_palooka]

2 hours ago, Tank4Drake said:

“The D is improving” let’s settle down guys… we’ve seen our D go on mini streaks in the past against bad offenses. We just played the worst NFL Offense of the past 3-4 years. No point in getting excited over that. We also play a horrible offense this week in the Bears, a Bottom 3 Offense. 

2 weeks from now on Monday Night against the Lions is a true test of the D. Whether we put together a mini streak against horrendous offenses and are fools gold, or if they truly are turning a corner (doubt it). 

The last several seasons the Raiders made the worst QBs in the league look like all pros. So I'd say there is improvement. 

Herbert is a quality QB and he had his worst game agains the Raiders defense. 167 yards and a 72 rating. That counts for something. 

[bucksavage1]

2 hours ago, Geezy said:

this is where im at. These guys are professionals, and all we are going to attract if we keep losing are guys looking to cash in. I dont want guys checking out, this is the main reason i havent completely given up on McD, these guys are still playing hard despite their limitations. I think were a QB away from being in playoff contention. QB, DT, RT, OG, CB are our biggest needs imo, we should have a bunch of cap and all our picks to make stuff happen. Everyone predicted 7-9 wins being the barometer for a decent season, and we are well on our way to that without a competant QB. I know McD isnt for everyone, but having a QB with this much limitations has to hurt your play calling. 

Right. I’m tired of being the doormats of the NFL. This shouldn’t be a wasted season. For the 1st time in awhile the defense is showing signs of actually being a strength other than a weakness 

There’s no guarantee that any of the 2024 QB prospects are gonna be good players. The NFL is the great humbler

[ronjon1990]

2 hours ago, Darbsk said:

I get the frustration but funnily enough, I do think our offence is a QB (and maybe an Olineman) away. Which leads me to my next point;

I also get the McDaniels criticism, a lot is deserved and he’s had a number of outright brain farts and plain bad calls but it’s clear watching the film that he is scheming guys open. Adams, Tucker, Renfrow and Mayer have all been open and missed numerous times. Now, you’d be absolutely correct to assert that he hand picked the QB and it’s on him, and I wouldn’t argue but that doesn’t alter the fact that the receivers are open if a QB can get them the ball. 

And that's the key I've brought up numerous times in a nutshell. 

Do I think Josh is a bad play designer or offensive coordinator? Nah. Maybe Tom Brady helped him win an absurd number of rings for a coordinator, but he's not drizzling 💩 as an OC. 

Except....we didn't hire him to be the OC, and I won't give him the benefit of the doubt there as he wanted a HC position. If all he had to do was be quiet, design plays, and watch someone else's players run them, nobody would be against the guy (admittedly, I would, but that's because I have zero respect for him due to his past). He got the HC job and all of the responsibilities that come with that title. And it's in all of the other aspects that I find him severely lacking. 

Bad trades are on him. 

Given his relationship with Zeigler, bad contracts are not entirely on him nor is he totally insulated. Without his blessing, Zeigler isn't signing deals. 

The OL not being properly addressed and inexplicably regressing is on him. 

The QB choice is on him. 

Guys being pulled out of games randomly is on him. 

Choosing to run with like 6 active RBs while our OL is a muscle tweak away from pulling a random fan out of the stands to fill in is on him.

Every bad or shortsighted playcall/decision is on him. 

Guys goof off (which if there's one thing I will say, we haven't had that aside from Chandler Jones and that's a whole different thing) it would be on him. 

The lack of depth on D is on him. 

Amd it's not because he's Josh McDaniels, it's because he's the HC of the Raiders and not just an OC that can shirk those responsibilities because he can design some nifty plays. 

USC is a good example in a way. All Star QB and future NFL skill players all over the place, yet they're seemingly constantly in dog fights with far lesser opponents. Why? Because Lincoln Riley has a single minded objective to be the beat offense, not the best team. I don't think Lincoln Riley is a good head coach, but he's a fantastic offensive coordinator. My gut tells me he's got 2-3 years tops left at SC if he stays though. Oregon and Washington will probably embarass USC this year, and joining the Michigan's, Ohio State's, Penn State's, of the world in the Big10 is going to leave USC as a perennial 4-5+ loss team the way they're currently constructed- which won't fly at USC. 

And that's at the collegiate level, where the sheer difference in raw talent USC has to, say, Arizona or San Jose St, will will them to victorious often than not. The NFL isn't. The talent disparity isn't as massive, and a coordinator cosplaying as a HC will get exposed over time. Josh might be a great OC, bit he's not up to the task or responsibilities that a HC is required to take on successfully. 

Fwiw, Josh would gain soooo many points with me if he stepped down as HC and just became our OC and let someone else handle every other aspect of the team- even if only in a ceremonial type of move where he was still the titular HC. He won't, but it just shows that I can appreciate what he brings to the table in one role while also acknowledging that he's woefully miscast. 

 

[bucksavage1]

33 minutes ago, Devilshark69 said:

There’s a difference between “wanting” something to be, and calling it what it is. I don’t think I’ve ever read him saying he WANTS us to be a dumpster fire. I could make assumptions too buck.....I could “assume” your overall giddiness and forgiveness with mcdoofus is based on the fact that he dumped Carr, who you detest and wanted gone at all cost. However, I’m not assuming that. You celebrated jimmy crapolo coming here, now you’re all over the “bench him” train? Lol! The point being, some of y’all just absolutely search for reasons to “ha ha! I told ya so!” To your fellow nation fans, smh! We’ve ALL joked about getting lured in with a few wins mid season, only to be let down by seasons end. This season, last season and quite a few other seasons in the last 20yrs TBF. To be continued......👍🍻

Calling it like it is? Ain’t nobody searching for a haha moment.
There’s literally posters in here that literally just trash talk the team.

Other actively want us to lose and mad at wins for draft position. 
We haven’t seen Frankie since after before the Packers win

The team is .500 and has real opportunity to turning things around. Is that what people want? 

I call it like it is. That’s what I’ve been doing with Carr and Jimmy G. It’s not personal it’s business. 

Carr is limited in different ways that Jimmy G both it obvious they ain’t it. After 9 years it was apparent gotta move on. Can’t sit on an average QB that long. Jimmy isn’t healthy prone and getting our WRs destroyed. I’m not afraid to be wrong. I gave Jims shot and he stank 🍻💨

 

Edited October 17, 2023 by bucksavage1

[Tank4Drake]

57 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

The last several seasons the Raiders made the worst QBs in the league look like all pros. So I'd say there is improvement. 

Herbert is a quality QB and he had his worst game agains the Raiders defense. 167 yards and a 72 rating. That counts for something. 

This is a bit of an exaggeration. Our D has definitely gone on streaks against bad offenses and bad QB’s on multiple occasions, dating back to 2015. Then when we face a Top 12ish offense we get obliterated and everyone realizes we were fools gold. Yes, we are a lot of QB’s “get right” game when they are struggling, but these are QB’s with elite potential like Trevor Lawrence. We have faced a washed up Russ Wilson, Possibly worst QB in the league Mac Jones, and another worst QB in the league Kenny Pickett. The Lions will probably smoke us and people will realize this is likely just strength of schedule heavily in our favor. They probably have faced the easiest offensive SOS in the league. It’s probably not a Bottom 5 Defense, but it’s extremely likely still a Bottom 10 unit. 

[Tank4Drake]

Reminds me when we were playing covid rosters the second half of 2021 and people thought our D turned a corner…

[big_palooka]

15 minutes ago, Tank4Drake said:

This is a bit of an exaggeration. Our D has definitely gone on streaks against bad offenses and bad QB’s on multiple occasions, dating back to 2015. Then when we face a Top 12ish offense we get obliterated and everyone realizes we were fools gold. Yes, we are a lot of QB’s “get right” game when they are struggling, but these are QB’s with elite potential like Trevor Lawrence. We have faced a washed up Russ Wilson, Possibly worst QB in the league Mac Jones, and another worst QB in the league Kenny Pickett. The Lions will probably smoke us and people will realize this is likely just strength of schedule heavily in our favor. They probably have faced the easiest offensive SOS in the league. It’s probably not a Bottom 5 Defense, but it’s extremely likely still a Bottom 10 unit. 

Guess we will see. 

You forgot to mention your boy Jordan Love who they made look like a complete scrub picking him off 3 times. When is the last time this defense did that?

[Darbsk]

1 hour ago, ronjon1990 said:

And that's the key I've brought up numerous times in a nutshell. 

Do I think Josh is a bad play designer or offensive coordinator? Nah. Maybe Tom Brady helped him win an absurd number of rings for a coordinator, but he's not drizzling 💩 as an OC. 

Except....we didn't hire him to be the OC, and I won't give him the benefit of the doubt there as he wanted a HC position. If all he had to do was be quiet, design plays, and watch someone else's players run them, nobody would be against the guy (admittedly, I would, but that's because I have zero respect for him due to his past). He got the HC job and all of the responsibilities that come with that title. And it's in all of the other aspects that I find him severely lacking. 

Bad trades are on him. 

Given his relationship with Zeigler, bad contracts are not entirely on him nor is he totally insulated. Without his blessing, Zeigler isn't signing deals. 

The OL not being properly addressed and inexplicably regressing is on him. 

The QB choice is on him. 

Guys being pulled out of games randomly is on him. 

Choosing to run with like 6 active RBs while our OL is a muscle tweak away from pulling a random fan out of the stands to fill in is on him.

Every bad or shortsighted playcall/decision is on him. 

Guys goof off (which if there's one thing I will say, we haven't had that aside from Chandler Jones and that's a whole different thing) it would be on him. 

The lack of depth on D is on him. 

Amd it's not because he's Josh McDaniels, it's because he's the HC of the Raiders and not just an OC that can shirk those responsibilities because he can design some nifty plays. 

USC is a good example in a way. All Star QB and future NFL skill players all over the place, yet they're seemingly constantly in dog fights with far lesser opponents. Why? Because Lincoln Riley has a single minded objective to be the beat offense, not the best team. I don't think Lincoln Riley is a good head coach, but he's a fantastic offensive coordinator. My gut tells me he's got 2-3 years tops left at SC if he stays though. Oregon and Washington will probably embarass USC this year, and joining the Michigan's, Ohio State's, Penn State's, of the world in the Big10 is going to leave USC as a perennial 4-5+ loss team the way they're currently constructed- which won't fly at USC. 

And that's at the collegiate level, where the sheer difference in raw talent USC has to, say, Arizona or San Jose St, will will them to victorious often than not. The NFL isn't. The talent disparity isn't as massive, and a coordinator cosplaying as a HC will get exposed over time. Josh might be a great OC, bit he's not up to the task or responsibilities that a HC is required to take on successfully. 

Fwiw, Josh would gain soooo many points with me if he stepped down as HC and just became our OC and let someone else handle every other aspect of the team- even if only in a ceremonial type of move where he was still the titular HC. He won't, but it just shows that I can appreciate what he brings to the table in one role while also acknowledging that he's woefully miscast. 

 

A lot of good points there and honestly, I wouldn’t disagree with most. 

I guess I’m a lot more tolerant of McDaniels than most and I guess I can see the potential of this offence when helmed by the right general. That doesn’t excuse McDaniels mistakes in personnel. 

I’d be more than happy too to have McDaniels as OC and you may well be right that he’s yet another who’s a very good co-ordinate but just not HC material.