The MVP race

[AngusMcFife]

37 minutes ago, notthatbluestuff said:

Peyton was a first overall golden child NFL royalty, Purdy was the last pick on a team that was already good. That’s why the media views them differently. 

Peyton revolutionized the position

[TecmoSuperJoe]

58 minutes ago, Manny/Patrick said:

I wonder if Peyton got this flack when he was throwing to Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne and had Edge as his RB and Dallas Clark running seem routes, not comparing Brock to Peyton but Peyton had some good weapons in his first mvp season

Society was different back then. Doesn't matter if it was Manning, Montana, or Warner with a stellar cast. Now, the Warner story for example would have a large crowd of detractors instead of taking it what it's supposed to be a face value, a Cinderella story. People are a lot more cynical of "too good to be true" narratives now. Not just in sports, but with anything. Cold, hard logic , and what's "supposed to happen" has a much longer leash over something that completely seems like an outlier. At least that's the attitude here in western culture. 

Edited December 13, 2023 by TecmoSuperJoe

[Forge]

1 hour ago, NYRaider said:

 

 

Me trying to figure out if I want to post a really long, annoying post in response (to be clear, the annoyance would be about its length...not me trying to be annoying....though I would be annoying by writing a bunch and it would fall into that "I'm happy for you or sorry that happened" category)

 

[jonnguy2015]

5 hours ago, AngusMcFife said:

It's a shame Purdy can't receive a new contract until after the 2024 season. Would love to see if SF would be willing to offer him $275+ million in guaranteed money, given he is a young MVP QB (according to many posters). 

If he keeps playing like this in 2024, he'll be the highest paid QB in the league(until Stroud gets his contract, of course). Five games of Jimmy G was enough for the Niners to make him the highest APY contract for a week until Kirk signed with Minnesota

Edited December 14, 2023 by jonnguy2015

[typecast]

9 hours ago, Soggust said:

It's funny because I felt like I got smushed on that point earlier in the season by @Jakuvious when arguing MVP vs franchise value going forward on Purdy then I swapped my entire position around and threw it out there a few months later and got smushed by you and @typecast on the other side of the argument lol.

fml

I don't know how others feel about it. Just giving my opinion. The was also that he ends up as MVP this year and continues to improve through 2025. Purdy's contract should probably get split into its own post at this point. 

If the 49ers – coaches, front office, ownership – are really 100% all in on Purdy, then he's getting paid slightly more than the last guy. The only way he doesn't is if he gives the team a discount. The numbers just continue to climb as the salary cap explodes. The teams that think they have an elite franchise guy keep setting new highs in average, signing guarantees, total guaranteed, or some combination. Who knows where the guaranteed money will be at 2 years from now.

The Our Franchise desperately needs a QB, Take a Full Guarantee

• 3/18/22 - Watson - 230M/5, 230M gtd at signing, 230M total gtd, forfeiture protection on guarantees upon suspension (CLE)
• 3/13/18 - Cousins - 84M/3, 84M gtd at signing, 84M total gtd, No Tag, No Trade, 6M in incentives (MIN)

The Elite Franchise QBs the Team is All-In On

• 9/7/23 - Burrow - 275M/5, 146M gtd at signing, 219M total gtd, CG/SB Bonus (CIN)
• 7/25/23 - Herbert - 262.5M/5, 134M gtd at signing, 218.7M total gtd, No Trade, CG/SB Bonus (LAC)
• 4/27/23 - Jackson - 260M/5, 135M gtd at signing, 185M total gtd, No Trade, No Tag after 2027 (BAL)
• 4/17/23 - Hurts - 255M/5, 110M gtd at signing, 179.4M total gtd, 15M in incentives, No Trade, Season MVP/SB Bonus (PHI)
• 9/1/22 - Wilson - 242.6M/5, 124M gtd at signing, 161M total gtd. (DEN)
• 7/21/22 - Murray - 230.5M/5, 103.3M gtd at signing, 159.8M total gtd, 7.5M in incentives (ARI)
• 3/8/22 - Rodgers - 151.8M/3, 101.5M gtd at signing, 151.8M total gtd (GB)
• 8/6/21 - Allen - 258M/6, 100M gtd at signing, 150M total gtd, 30M in incentives (BUF)
• 3/9/21 - Prescott - 160M/4, 95M gtd at signing, 126M total gtd, No Tag, No Trade, Snaps/SB Bonus (DAL)
• 9/5/20 - Watson - 156M/4, 73.7M gtd at signing, 110.7M total gtd, No Trade, Snaps/SB Bonus (HOU)
• 7/6/20 - Mahomes - 450M/10, 63.1M gtd at signing, 141.5M total gtd, No Trade, 2 annual escalators (KC)
• 9/3/19 - Goff - 134M/4, 57.0M gtd at signing, 110M total gtd, No Offsets (LAR)
• 4/29/19 - Wentz - 128M/4, 66.5M gtd at signing, 108M total gtd, 16M in incentives, 1M in one-time bonuses (PHI)
• 4/16/19 - Wilson - 140M/4, 70M gtd at signing, 107M total gtd, No Trade, base salary escalator (SEA)
• 8/19/18 - Rodgers - 134M/4, 79.2M gtd at signing, 98.7 total gtd, 1M max in escalators (GB)
• 5/3/18 - Ryan - 150M/5, 94.5M gtd at signing, 100M total gtd (IND)
• 2/8/18 - Garoppolo - 137.5M/5, 41.7M gtd at signing, 74.1M total gtd, incentives for extra injury guarantee (SF)
• 8/27/17 - Stafford - 135M/5, 60.5M gtd at signing, 92M total gtd (DET)
• 6/22/17 - Carr - 125M/5, 40M gtd at signing, 70.2M total gtd (LVR)

The Discount Guys

• 7/26/23 - Rodgers - 112.5M/3, 75M gtd at signing, 75M total gtd, No Tag/Trade (NYJ)
• 3/19/22 - Stafford - 160M/4, 63M gtd at signing, 130M total gtd (LAR)
• 3/17/20 - Brees - 50M/2, 25M gtd at signing, 25M total gtd, No Trade, No Tag (NO)
• 3/13/18 - Brees - 50M/2, 20.7M gtd at signing, 27M total gtd, No Trade, No Tag after 2019 (NO)

Fringe Guys You Gotta Pay

• 4/7/23 - Jones - 160M/4, 81M gtd at signing, 92M total gtd, 70M in incentives w/35M max payout (NYG)
• 3/6/23 - G.Smith - 75M/3, 27.3M gtd at signing, 40M total gtd, 15M in annual escalators (SEA)
• 3/6/23 - Carr - 150M/4, 60M gtd at signing, 100M total gtd, No Trade (NO)
• 4/13/22 - Carr - 121.5M/3, 24.9M gtd at signing, 65.3M total gtd, No Trade (LVR)
• 3/15/20 - Tannehill - 118M/4, 62M gtd at signing, 91M total gtd (TEN)
• 3/19/18 - A.Smith - 94M/4, 55M gtd at signing, 71M total gtd (WAS)

Edited December 14, 2023 by typecast

[notthatbluestuff]

Kindly remove Dak’s name from MVP discussion. This is down to Purdy and Lamar.

[DontTazeMeBro]

This would’ve been the week for Tyreek Hill to move from a name that gets mentioned to a serious contender.

[J-ALL-DAY]

2 hours ago, DontTazeMeBro said:

This would’ve been the week for Tyreek Hill to move from a name that gets mentioned to a serious contender.

Yeah, but they won 30-0 without him against a defense that was playing the best for the last month or so. Hill showed he is clearly not needed and overrated!!! 

I hate how he got hurt last week and missed a good portion of the game and misses today's game. I want him to surpass the 2k amount. But now if he does, he can say he did it in 16 games and the extra game wasn't needed. 

[J-ALL-DAY]

2 hours ago, notthatbluestuff said:

Kindly remove Dak’s name from MVP discussion. This is down to Purdy and Lamar.

I mean it was a terrible performance and he's lucky to not have thrown 4-5 INTs, but it's only one game. He shouldn't be out of the race just because of this performance. The Cowboys have two good opponents left so if he does well against them, then he will be right back in it. 

Purdy should be the leader right now though. 

 

[notthatbluestuff]

4 hours ago, J-ALL-DAY said:

The Cowboys have two good opponents left so if he does well against them-

I’ll stop you right there, he won’t. 

[lancerman]

On 12/13/2023 at 6:51 PM, TecmoSuperJoe said:

Society was different back then. Doesn't matter if it was Manning, Montana, or Warner with a stellar cast. Now, the Warner story for example would have a large crowd of detractors instead of taking it what it's supposed to be a face value, a Cinderella story. People are a lot more cynical of "too good to be true" narratives now. Not just in sports, but with anything. Cold, hard logic , and what's "supposed to happen" has a much longer leash over something that completely seems like an outlier. At least that's the attitude here in western culture. 

A big difference during that era was that it was feasible for a non QB to win the award. Warner at his peak still had his RB win an MVP, something that would never happen today by virtue of how the entire award is discussed now. Manning at his peak still saw LT, Shaun Alexander and Adrian Peterson win awards during periods when he had stacked teams. And Montana had guys like Marcus Allen and Lawrence Taylor getting the award during the middle of his run. 

Going back to a point I made earlier in this thread, nowadays we (fans and media) use the "value" part of the award to pretty much mandate that only a QB can get it, so it feels weird to do that and then in the same breath hand the award to the QB who gets the most help from the talent around him as opposed to the QB doing the most with the least (which is really value). 

Also Peyton did become a bit of meme before memes existed for his 2008 and 2009 MVP's being some of the least convincing of that era. That's where the whole joke of that chart that ended with "give Manning the MVP" came from. He got a lot of flack for that.

[lancerman]

4 hours ago, J-ALL-DAY said:

I mean it was a terrible performance and he's lucky to not have thrown 4-5 INTs, but it's only one game. He shouldn't be out of the race just because of this performance. The Cowboys have two good opponents left so if he does well against them, then he will be right back in it. 

Purdy should be the leader right now though. 

 

I doubt it matters. Purdy and Lamar on Christmas will probably be the game that has the biggest impact on the award. Whoever wins that is very likely going to have an easy ride the next two weeks.

[TecmoSuperJoe]

9 minutes ago, lancerman said:

A big difference during that era was that it was feasible for a non QB to win the award. Warner at his peak still had his RB win an MVP, something that would never happen today by virtue of how the entire award is discussed now. Manning at his peak still saw LT, Shaun Alexander and Adrian Peterson win awards during periods when he had stacked teams. And Montana had guys like Marcus Allen and Lawrence Taylor getting the award during the middle of his run. 

Going back to a point I made earlier in this thread, nowadays we (fans and media) use the "value" part of the award to pretty much mandate that only a QB can get it, so it feels weird to do that and then in the same breath hand the award to the QB who gets the most help from the talent around him as opposed to the QB doing the most with the least (which is really value). 

Also Peyton did become a bit of meme before memes existed for his 2008 and 2009 MVP's being some of the least convincing of that era. That's where the whole joke of that chart that ended with "give Manning the MVP" came from. He got a lot of flack for that.

I might accept Mark Moseley as an MVP winner if I could take away the cynicism with the award's commentary nowadays. 

[Soggust]

3 minutes ago, lancerman said:

Going back to a point I made earlier in this thread, nowadays we (fans and media) use the "value" part of the award to pretty much mandate that only a QB can get it, so it feels weird to do that and then in the same breath hand the award to the QB who gets the most help from the talent around him as opposed to the QB doing the most with the least (which is really value). 

I get this logic, but the difference in performance is so drastic that it warrants it, imo.

It's like if we were to say Brady shouldn't win the MVP in 07' because he's throwing to Randy Moss and Wes Welker with the GOAT coach, so instead we are going to give it to Peyton Manning because he "only" had Reggie Wayne to throw to since Marvin got hurt.

Or maybe a better and more recent example, it's like saying Mahomes shouldn't win in 18' because he's throwing to Tyreek, Kelce etc and has Reid and Kareem Hunt. Why shouldn't Andrew Luck have won it since he was only throwing to T.Y. Hilton?

Because unfortunately performance + team record matters and Brock is blowing away everyone not named Dak (and I think Brock took the lead today). For me, it's a two man race with the haters waiting for Brock to fail to slip Dak back in.

[Tank4Drake]

5 hours ago, J-ALL-DAY said:

I mean it was a terrible performance and he's lucky to not have thrown 4-5 INTs, but it's only one game. He shouldn't be out of the race just because of this performance. The Cowboys have two good opponents left so if he does well against them, then he will be right back in it. 

Purdy should be the leader right now though. 

 

Agreed, Dak is still in it.