2024 Draft Debate and Discussion

[Madmike90]

50 minutes ago, Sugashane said:

True but they have the 8th most points in that span, while Chicago has been atrocious in the same statistic.

The fact Fields' backups have a better record than he does is a pretty damning stat too.

I agree with that but have we been atrocious because of Fields or because of what we have around him? The truth is it is probably somewhere in the middle but what I do know if Fields has raw talent like very few other QBs in the NFL do...that is rare...and if you can find a coach who can get the most out of him then your going to have something special...

The whole "Bagent won 2 games" argument to me just doesn't matter when you look at who we beat in those games...give me the guy who has you in a true contest with an 8-3 team rather than the one who just about beat a 1-10 team.

[Sugashane]

12 minutes ago, Madmike90 said:

I agree with that but have we been atrocious because of Fields or because of what we have around him? The truth is it is probably somewhere in the middle but what I do know if Fields has raw talent like very few other QBs in the NFL do...that is rare...and if you can find a coach who can get the most out of him then your going to have something special...

The whole "Bagent won 2 games" argument to me just doesn't matter when you look at who we beat in those games...give me the guy who has you in a true contest with an 8-3 team rather than the one who just about beat a 1-10 team.

Fields has two runs where he looks like a real QB. His rookie year he was trash but had Nagy, who I believe was trying to take Pace down with him. Last year he had a poor team around him but he was still a mediocre passer even when he had open guys. This year he has more than enough talent to not be a dumpster fire but he has two games that dramatically inflated his stock. If we are going to look past Bagent's two wins because of who they were against, then Fields' two big games need thrown out too. They are the 30th and 32nd in the NFL in points allowed per game. The teams Bagent beat were 12th and 31st. You can look at some of the teams Fields lost against that were terrible, should they be thrown out too? HOU is out, he was trash vs the Raiders and CIN, and beat a winless DET. He won vs Trey Lance in a monsoon. Thats over half his career wins thrown out. It's crazy to look past Bagent's successes and then turn a blind eye to why Fields has any success in 3 years.

Here's what I believe to be facts. Fields has won 6 games since he became a starter, he is 6-26 and they have rarely been 8-3 teams or the like. His back ups since he started are 5-6. Same players around him as the nobodies. If you want you could even make the case they are 6-7 because no one really though Dalton was a legitimate starter. Franchise QBs aren't given 1 year $10 mil deals. He has 11 games (so over 33% of his starts) where he has 14 points or less in a game, while having 7 of his starts where he has 28 or more points.

Now my opinions and questions. Fields has NOT had a good hand dealt to him but he has been trash in spite of what he has. He has been a weak link for long enough. I mentioned him going 6-26, who do you think would be able to do better? I think most starters would, and I am ignoring the obvious ones like Mahomes, Brady, Rodgers, Allen, etc. Cousins wouldn't have that record, Carr would have done better, Mayfield could have done better, Stafford, hell I think Minshew could have won more. So at what point do we say "Fields has had enough chances" instead of making excuses for him and dream scenarios that mystical coach "gets him on track." Dude has millions and could hire any QB coach he wanted, why hasn't he progressed over three years? He has 36 passing TDs and 27 INTs, he has ran for 11 TDs and lost 11 fumbles out of his 33 total. How much of that is he accountable for? A number of those TDs came in the games that apparently aren't being counted, so where do we draw the line for this? Do we grade him more harshly over Bagent because he has had 3 years of NFL coaching and several years of coaching by some of the top coaches in the NCAA? I think its a fair bit of an advantage compared to Bagent's DII career and lack of reps as an UFA rookie. Right now, would you be willing to bet Fields turns around his career? I wouldn't bet a $20 he would if I could get $40 back.

At this point Fields hasn't even been able to prove he is worth his 1st round pick wages, let alone warrant burdening the next coach with based on a hope and prayer. The only thing he has proven is he is inconsistent and will throw out out of as many games as he runs in for you. He's a nice guy and a rare athlete but he is not a good QB.

[Sugashane]

I believe you get your HC, if Warren has doubts on Poles then he should get rid of him. If he knew about the tank and agreed then keep him but be highly involved in the HC hire.

If you land Harbaugh then evaluate Poles for another season. If he is underwhelming with his FA signings and draft class then you cut him and have Harbaugh be involved in the hiring process for the new GM. I would assume Harbaugh brings at least 1-2 guys to add to the FO and maybe one of them steps up. Or maybe they poach someone like Hortiz from BAL.

The HC should be the one who really digs in on the QB. If we have 1.1 I see no reason not to take Williams. How long has it been since there has been a QB with the talent and performance that Williams has had? His "bad" season has still been stellar overall, he has elevated a trash squad but not Tebow, Burrow, or anyone in college history is taking over at QB and leading that squad to the playoffs. Take him, spend in FA to add the C you need and draft 1-2 OL to develop. Run a damn system and Williams could be one of the best passers in the league. If you take the Bears offense when healthy and add a league average starting C there is no reason this offense should average well over the 21ppg they are averaging this year (and even less the previous two). There is a solid running game, a talented OL, a WR corps that has Moore and Mooney (he will have to be re-signed or replaced) and a TE in Kmet that is a solid overall TE.

Upgrading over Eberflus, Getsy, and Fields should not be that damn hard to do. They've set the bar pretty damn low.

[Madmike90]

11 hours ago, Sugashane said:

At this point Fields hasn't even been able to prove he is worth his 1st round pick wages, let alone warrant burdening the next coach with based on a hope and prayer. The only thing he has proven is he is inconsistent and will throw out out of as many games as he runs in for you. He's a nice guy and a rare athlete but he is not a good QB.

I'm just not there yet on saying Fields is not a good QB...I honestly don't know if he is good or not...

What I do know is Flus is a terrible HC & Getsy is a woeful playcaller...I also know he has had one true different making weapon in his time here and he DJ is on pace to have his best ever season...

I just can't shake the feeling that if you got Harbaugh in here Fields would become that Hurts type of QB who behind a strong rushing attack and most importantly a real protection scheme would make enough plays with his arm & legs to become a top 10 QB.

[beardown3231]

Reich was fired already

[BEAR FACE DOWN ARROW]

17 minutes ago, beardown3231 said:

Reich was fired already

What a **** show.  Poor guy was set up to fail by Jerry-Jones-Lite. 

[Madmike90]

It was clear from the start Tepper was going to be a problem in this business...hedge fund managers are notorious for just tearing things down and starting again if things aren't going their way...

The worst news is that Tepper reportedly really wanted Ben Johnson last offseason as HC...he could go full court press to try and get him in their this year to try and fix Bryce Young and he has the deep pockets to do it.

[CBears019]

34 minutes ago, Madmike90 said:

It was clear from the start Tepper was going to be a problem in this business...hedge fund managers are notorious for just tearing things down and starting again if things aren't going their way...

The worst news is that Tepper reportedly really wanted Ben Johnson last offseason as HC...he could go full court press to try and get him in their this year to try and fix Bryce Young and he has the deep pockets to do it.

Yea but they’ve also ad three head coaches in the past 4-5 years.  That’s got to weigh heavily on potential HCs minds when deciding where to go, assuming they have multiple offers.  

[Madmike90]

51 minutes ago, CBears019 said:

Yea but they’ve also ad three head coaches in the past 4-5 years.  That’s got to weigh heavily on potential HCs minds when deciding where to go, assuming they have multiple offers.  

Agreed...I can't think of any reason to go there at this point...well other than a ton of money but if its someone who is only after that then we probably didn't want them anyway.

[Bigbear72]

Because the Bears can't have nice things, let's say that neither pick falls in the top 3 (it is possible that this could be the case), and the new regime wants to go with their own guy, would you guys be okay with a combination of Jayden Daniels and Malik Nabers? For all the qb talk on this board I don't see a lot of people discussing Daniels at all. 

[Sugashane]

1 hour ago, Bigbear72 said:

Because the Bears can't have nice things, let's say that neither pick falls in the top 3 (it is possible that this could be the case), and the new regime wants to go with their own guy, would you guys be okay with a combination of Jayden Daniels and Malik Nabers? For all the qb talk on this board I don't see a lot of people discussing Daniels at all. 

I had Daniels as my QB3 in my mock for a reason. And Nabers is my WR2, normally he'd be the WR1 but naturally he had to fall in line with MHJ. 

I don't really care for most QBs in this draft.

Nix 100% *** and is getting propped up by the system, he is Colt Brennan 2.0 as a prospect. He dinks and dunks constantly and even then his WRs just are athletic enough to make his yards look impressive. Any QB listed here could replicate his stats in that system IMO. 

McCarthy has the easiest path to the playoffs and its like watching the conference powerhouse beat the conference bum most weeks - Michigan is just stacked and he reaps the benefits. He has the size, arm strength, and athleticism but he is no Herbert IMO.

Beck is much the same, both are guys that are system players but likely aren't much more than guys that get 2-3 years of starts then become depth/spot starters.

Penix can run a system but he's older and only really had consistent success vs PAC 12 defenses, but he looks raw AF at times and pressure gets to him way too much. His injury history alone should drop him out of first round talks, I'd take a swing in the 3rd but that's about the highest I could go. 

Milton from TEN is a Josh Allen clone physically, but has the same complaints about his accuracy and touch are suspect. I actually like him as a 4th rounder, and if someone like Harbaugh or Johnson said they could develop him then even getting him in a trade up in the late 2nd (since the capital given up wouldn't be near as much and that also mean MHJ and a haul most likely). Higher chance of him being a bust than a stud but he has tools and  I don't think he will get the Richardson hype. Dude was beaten out at Michigan and TEN so he is a major project. I personally wouldn't do more than a 4th. Not when I think the best description of accuracy is "buckshot."

McCord is what OSU QBs have a reputation to be, so no go there. Hard to imagine someone being less with THAT kind of talent around you. I wouldn't be surprised if he declares just because he thinks a recruit will take his spot from him. He's shockingly unimpressive to me. 

Mertz sucks, he is Kyle Orton 2.0, but a discount version. 

Milroe is a runner that has a hell of an arm but crap accuracy, so that is an easy pass. In the NFL he wouldn't be a special athlete. 

Rattler is a Nathan Peterman clone. 

 

Sanders and Ewers are staying most likely. They get to start the conversation at 1A and 1B for the 2025 draft, essentially where Williams and Maye have been all season long. 

[dll2000]

4 hours ago, beardown3231 said:

Reich was fired already

I watched Car/Ten.  

Announcers said when game started, "If you are watching this game ... you really love football."  Wow.

That was cold.   I was thinking .. or you are a Bears fan with some time on his hands.  

TN let Car hang around whole game.  Terribly boring game, but it was nerve racking that they never put them away and frustrating I had to watch the whole boring thing.

I still can't get over how tiny Bryce Young is.  He looks like a child out there.

 

 

[beardown3231]

On one hand having Tepper as an owner would suck because now it's like, why would you coach there voluntarily? You know you can be gone at the snap of a finger. You have no talent. You have no 1st round pick this year.

On the other, you can get almost any contract you want. From a fans' standpoint, you have an owner that is willing to shell out money no matter what for any coach, GM or player.

[beardown3231]

2 hours ago, Bigbear72 said:

Because the Bears can't have nice things, let's say that neither pick falls in the top 3 (it is possible that this could be the case), and the new regime wants to go with their own guy, would you guys be okay with a combination of Jayden Daniels and Malik Nabers? For all the qb talk on this board I don't see a lot of people discussing Daniels at all. 

Daniels is a stud but I worry about his frame. He is very thin

[HuskieBear]

6 hours ago, Madmike90 said:

The worst news is that Tepper reportedly really wanted Ben Johnson last offseason as HC...he could go full court press to try and get him in their this year to try and fix Bryce Young and he has the deep pockets to do it.

Johnson bailed from Carolina because he didn't like the fit/it wasn't the right time for him. I doubt he goes there this offseason without a 1st round pick, a terrible offensive line, no weapons to speak of, and an owner who has zero patience and just fired his coach 11 games into the season.

Johnson is at worst a top 3 HC candidate. he could likely have any job opening he wants or he could sit out again, lead one of the best offenses in the league (again) and see what's open next year. 

i know the "there's only 32 of these jobs available" saying, but he's gonna have his chance, whether its this year or next