2024 Draft Debate and Discussion

[SLCbear]

22 hours ago, Old Guy said:

Wasn't he the reason the Lakers shipped Lonzo to NO after his second season? 

helped to get AD but Lonzo couldn't shoot  ha ha and then shockingly somehow learned to shoot in NO !!

 Jason Kidd is like the ONLY example that comes to mind of a shot soo BUSTed somehow coming around; maybe Dennis Johnson too waY back in the day, lethal mid-range  

Edited December 9, 2023 by SLCbear

[AZBearsFan]

23 hours ago, dafreak said:

He is rising..

https://lsutigerswire.usatoday.com/2023/12/08/lsu-football-jayden-daniels-cbs-2024-nfl-mock-draft-top-five/

I don’t see any scenario where we draft a QB early in R1 and then have that player sit behind Fields. We’re either sticking with Fields (and possibly adding another QB later in the draft), or we’re replacing him. There’s not really a realistic middle ground between the two. 

[CWood21]

12 hours ago, AZBearsFan said:

I don’t see any scenario where we draft a QB early in R1 and then have that player sit behind Fields. We’re either sticking with Fields (and possibly adding another QB later in the draft), or we’re replacing him. There’s not really a realistic middle ground between the two. 

I'd have to agree.  You're basically dumping any trade value that Fields had into the sink.

[CWood21]

IF I were the Bears' GM and I wanted to run with Fields for another year and/or skeptical of Caleb Williams and Drake Maye, I'd be calling the Cardinals and asking for 3+.  Obviously, you ask for their '25 FRP but if they're not willing to include that be willing to settle for that Texans' pick plus their '25 SRP.  Walking away with Marvin Harrison and Olu Fashanu/Joe Alt would be a hell of a building block.

[beardown3231]

3 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

IF I were the Bears' GM and I wanted to run with Fields for another year and/or skeptical of Caleb Williams and Drake Maye, I'd be calling the Cardinals and asking for 3+.  Obviously, you ask for their '25 FRP but if they're not willing to include that be willing to settle for that Texans' pick plus their '25 SRP.  Walking away with Marvin Harrison and Olu Fashanu/Joe Alt would be a hell of a building block.

While I love Alt, I don't think they're giving up on Braxton Jones this offseason

[StLunatic88]

3 hours ago, beardown3231 said:

While I love Alt, I don't think they're giving up on Braxton Jones this offseason

I don’t know how you guys watch some of these game and come away with the impression that Braxton is a Franchise LT. And unless that’s what he is, he is absolutely in play to be upgraded on. 

I know MadMike doesn’t necessarily agree with me on this, but if we know we have a LT coming out of the Draft (especially a FRP) and you give Braxton the whole offseason to adjust to guard, he would be a great pairing with a more natural LT. 

[beardown3231]

1 hour ago, StLunatic88 said:

I don’t know how you guys watch some of these game and come away with the impression that Braxton is a Franchise LT. And unless that’s what he is, he is absolutely in play to be upgraded on. 

I know MadMike doesn’t necessarily agree with me on this, but if we know we have a LT coming out of the Draft (especially a FRP) and you give Braxton the whole offseason to adjust to guard, he would be a great pairing with a more natural LT. 

I didn't say that. I said I don't think THEY will give up on Jones. Do I think he can be a quality OG? Yes

[BEAR FACE DOWN ARROW]

34 minutes ago, beardown3231 said:

I didn't say that. I said I don't think THEY will give up on Jones. Do I think he can be a quality OG? Yes

The relevant part of the evaluation night not be Jones' level of play, but rather his value. I think he's ok at best, but getting that result with the contract for a fifth round player is pretty good. If you can save 13m a year with the tradeoff of getting ok instead of great tackle play it frees your purse up to spend in other areas. 

[TankWilliams]

https://vxtwitter.com/PFF_Moo/status/1733973952479773082?t=fL7ylKwOKG200QvGxV7Dgw&s=19

Edited December 11, 2023 by TankWilliams

[StLunatic88]

1 hour ago, beardown3231 said:

I didn't say that. I said I don't think THEY will give up on Jones. Do I think he can be a quality OG? Yes

Having him play something other than Starting LT is not giving up on him. I think he can still be a very valuable piece to this team, especially if he could help stabilize the IOL while also being your #2 LT if something happens is still a big piece to the team. 

24 minutes ago, BEAR FACE DOWN ARROW said:

but getting that result with the contract for a fifth round player is pretty good. If you can save 13m a year with the tradeoff of getting ok instead of great tackle play it frees your purse up to spend in other areas. 

If the argument was live with Braxton and his blemishes at LT or go drop a bag for a Vet to come in and take over, yea I would agree with you. But we are talking about an upgrade with a draft pick.

Also remember, your scenario is only applicable for 2 more seasons, and then we’re past that “5th round contract value”. And I have a hard time seeing the future where we are paying Braxton Jones LT Money. But I could certainly see us paying him high level Guard money if he proves to be worth it. All while we have 4 years+5YO of a younger/more talented LT. 

Im not saying we should be making LT a priority. But we are also now entering the phase of this project that you are going to be looking at the best talent you have available to you, especially with those extra picks. And if that is at an upgradeable position, it’s going to be more on the table than most Bears fans are giving it credence

If I were to apply some of these reasonings to leave LT alone to other prospects, you could say we shouldnt waste our time with MHJ because we already have a true #1 WR (arguably Top 10) in DJ Moore…? And we can get by with just finding a good reliable vet (a Center in the OL comparison) and take an upside pick later in the draft as well. Again, I’m not saying that, I’m just pointing out that’s the same line of thinking when talking about asset allocation 

Edited December 11, 2023 by StLunatic88

[beardown3231]

8 minutes ago, StLunatic88 said:

Having him play something other than Starting LT is not giving up on him. I think he can still be a very valuable piece to this team, especially if he could help stabilize the IOL while also being your #2 LT if something happens is still a big piece to the team. 

If the argument was live with Braxton and his blemishes at LT or go drop a bag for a Vet to come in and take over, yea I would agree with you. But we are talking about an upgrade with a draft pick.

Also remember, your scenario is only applicable for 2 more seasons, and then we’re past that “5th round contract value”. And I have a hard time seeing the future where we are paying Braxton Jones LT Money. But I could certainly see us paying him high level Guard money if he proves to be worth it. All while we have 4 years+5YO of a younger/more talented LT. 

Im not saying we should be making LT a priority. But we are also now entering the phase of this project that you are going to be looking at the best talent you have available to you, especially with those extra picks. And if that is at an upgradeable position, it’s going to be more on the table than most Bears fans are giving it credence

If I were to apply some of these reasonings to leave LT alone to other prospects, you could say we shouldnt waste our time with MHJ because we already have a true #1 WR (arguably Top 10) in DJ Moore…? And we can get by with just finding a good reliable vet (a Center in the OL comparison) and take an upside pick later in the draft as well. Again, I’m not saying that, I’m just pointing out that’s the same line of thinking when talking about asset allocation 

I meant giving up on him at LT. You knew that

If they take Alt, I'd be happy. To me he's easily OT1 in this class and has the potential to be one of the better LT's in football. The athleticism is off the charts

I just don't see the Bears doing that. That's all

[Epyon]

Braxton has been playing statistically well enough to give him the job imo.

Right now, my strategy would be Williams with 1.1

From there I need to see what's still on the board with our actual pick.... Nabers-WR or Bowers-TE and I probably stay put and draft them........ beyond that I think I probably try and trade down and recoup a pick since we don't have a 2nd.

We also need to see what we get for Fields himself.

Personally, I want a MINIMUM of 2x weapons (WR or TE) this draft. I don't know what's going on with Mooney, but he's not currently part of my long term plans. Velus hasn't developed, and Scott is less of a factor than Mooney even.

For WR I like MHJ (obviously), Nabers early, then Legette and Troy Franklin early 2nd.

TE I'm looking Bowers (obviously) but JaTavion Sanders is intruging as well...

Then there's Johny Wilson-WR mid-late 2nd or third round

The wild card here is I'm not entirely sure what kind of WR Caleb Williams would prefer personally, or what kind of scheme whatever our next OC will want to run and what kinds of players they'll want for that.

[Epyon]

The other thought I had, was if Fields plays at least as well as he did today the rest of the games, he likely stays as the qb..... Trade down from 1 to 2 or 3 (let #2 match #3s offer if they want) draft MHJ-wr. 

Then with our own pick get Nabers-wr

 

Moore, MHJ, Nabers at wr.... With kmet at TE is probably the most stacked receiving room in the NFL. 

If nothing else, we'll learn REALLY quick next year whether Fields has it or not, because 3x legit #1s at WR and kmet arguably being near a fringe top 5TE would be insane to see, and maybe even match the kind of talent fields had in college. 

[dll2000]

On 12/9/2023 at 11:04 PM, AZBearsFan said:

I don’t see any scenario where we draft a QB early in R1 and then have that player sit behind Fields. We’re either sticking with Fields (and possibly adding another QB later in the draft), or we’re replacing him. There’s not really a realistic middle ground between the two. 

I don’t like that system anyway.  It is only arguably better if you have no Oline.  But then starter is going to be hurt soon anyway and rookie will get thrown in with added bonus of few offseason reps.  

[dll2000]

To get number 1 overall two years in a row can be franchise changing. 

Ideally Both Fields and Caleb would have played awesome this year.  That didn’t happen.  

Also hurts that a lot of big trade ups for QB have not worked out in recent years.  Which will cause some to question wisdom of it. 

But it is still a good position to be in.