Madmike90 Posted November 9, 2023 Share Posted November 9, 2023 5 hours ago, AZBearsFan said: Both Williams and Maye will grade out higher than Fields did as a prospect with basically everyone. I have very little doubt about that. I’m still a believer in Fields’ ability with the right mind designing the offense. Unfortunately we don’t have that mind, and by the time we do the new mind(s) will likely want to start with a fresh prospect anyway. If we pick in the top 2 in 2024 the only way Fields is still our QB next year is if he’s AWESOME the last 7 games of the year, and in order for him to do that he’d have to do it in spite of Getsy not really knowing how best to utilize what he does well. I wouldn't have Maye above Fields as a prospect...I'm still not full sold I have Maye above JJ McCarthy... Digging into Maye a little more I don't like the fact he committed to Alabama then when he heard Bryce Young had committed he went to North Carolina...it was always one of the things that concerned me with Trubisky & even Fields...why couldn't they beat out Marquise Williams & Jack Fromm? Worries me Maye didn't even back himself to compete with Young... Williams I would have as a better prospect because I don't think you can coach the spectacular things he can do and the feel he has for the position as a thrower...something we know Fields struggles with...you can coach Williams to trust the talent around him when it steps up a notch in the pros...where as Fields talent level stepped down from college Williams would without doubt step up and he wouldn't need to be superman...now of course the fact he is probably 6-0" 210lbs will ding him...some will be concerned with the nail painting and crying...some will look at this season with the pressure rate and fumbles and think he isn't what he was but no one in college football as the natural instincts for playing QB that Williams has. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigbear72 Posted November 9, 2023 Share Posted November 9, 2023 15 minutes ago, Madmike90 said: Digging into Maye a little more I don't like the fact he committed to Alabama then when he heard Bryce Young had committed he went to North Carolina...it was always one of the things that concerned me with Trubisky & even Fields...why couldn't they beat out Marquise Williams & Jack Fromm? Worries me Maye didn't even back himself to compete with Young... This doesn't bother me at all. I think it is better to go somewhere where he will get the vast majority of the snaps as oppose to splitting them. People knock qbs for not have a lot of starting reps all the time. The experience starting is important. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEAR FACE DOWN ARROW Posted November 9, 2023 Share Posted November 9, 2023 Honesltly I have zero idea how to scout QBs. The only time I tried was 2017 draft and it was a lot of work. I recall thining Trubisky seemed tentative and not super bright, loved Watson, Mahomes was more or less off my radar and Kizer was up in the top three. I'm inclined to trust the consensus on prospects, and they all have Williams as being something special and also suggest that Maye would be an easy #1 in many QB classes. That said, when I say trust the consensus, it's accepting that they're probably batting around .300 on QBs that are "good" prospects. Look at 2021, there were 5 guys that every one was excited about. One is good, two are total busts, one is as limited as people worried about and one went to the Bears so who the **** knows what he could have been. That said, I think if the Bears are thinking long term they'll take a swing on one of the top two guys if they're in position to do so, as the lesson every year keeps teaching us is that if you want to have a chance you need a top QB. Wacko teams make the playoffs every now and then but to be there consistently you need a Mahomes, Burrow, Brady, Allen et all. The worst thing a team can do is go all-in with a QB that ain't it, like the Bears in 2018-2020. Best case scenario you have an outside shot one year when everything falls your way, worst case scenario you spend and trade and end up irrelevant. If Poles is still the guy, I'm hoping he tries to keep the team relatively unburdened until he is 100% certain he has the QB. I'm fine with having not great seasons if we're developing or getting a QB. What I would hate to see is going all in on an average guy, or wasting development time like we did last year and arguably this year. I loved Fields for us, but it sure seems like all parties would be better off if the Bears restart at QB and he gets a chance elsewhere. So, give me any QB that the staff (please let it be different) has conviction on and lets see what happens. Just don't build in failure by having a lame duck drafting a QB, or trying to win with a Nick Daltonhill QB. Please don't waste my time Bears* *still tunes in to waste time in 2024 no matter what Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZBearsFan Posted November 9, 2023 Share Posted November 9, 2023 1 hour ago, Madmike90 said: I wouldn't have Maye above Fields as a prospect...I'm still not full sold I have Maye above JJ McCarthy... You might be the only one. JJ is a fine prospect but I don’t think he’s in the class of either Williams or Maye. 1 hour ago, Madmike90 said: Digging into Maye a little more I don't like the fact he committed to Alabama then when he heard Bryce Young had committed he went to North Carolina...it was always one of the things that concerned me with Trubisky & even Fields...why couldn't they beat out Marquise Williams & Jack Fromm? Worries me Maye didn't even back himself to compete with Young... As a counterpoint, couldn’t you make a really similar argument about Williams with regard to his need to follow Lincoln Riley to USC? 1 hour ago, Madmike90 said: you can coach Williams to trust the talent around him when it steps up a notch in the pros...where as Fields talent level stepped down from college Williams would without doubt step up and he wouldn't need to be superman I think you can definitely say this about Maye more than Williams. USC doesn’t have MHJ but they do have 5* recruit Mario Williams and 4* recruit Brendan Rice at WR, and 5* recruit Marshawn Lloyd at RB, and last year had Jordan Addison transfer in from Pitt to play with Williams. Each of those guys is a legit NFL prospect, and Addison has been an immediate star in the NFL after being a Biletnikoff award winner before transferring to USC. Williams is working with one of the most loaded talent bases around him of any QB in the country right now in what is very clearly IMO the most QB friendly offensive system in college football. Not exactly Josh Allen dragging his team up the hill at Wyoming flanked by a bunch of future potato farmers. 1 hour ago, Madmike90 said: now of course the fact he is probably 6-0" 210lbs will ding him...some will be concerned with the nail painting and crying...some will look at this season with the pressure rate and fumbles and think he isn't what he was but no one in college football as the natural instincts for playing QB that Williams has. I don’t think anyone will dispute that Williams’ instincts are elite, but most would say Maye’s are also elite. Maye also comes with more prototypical NFL QB stature than Williams (listed 6’5” 220) and well above average athleticism for the position. I’m not saying any of this to criticize Williams. He’s a great QB prospect and any team needing a QB would be thrilled to get him. But the difference between he and Maye as prospects is far smaller than you’re making it out to be. You seem to be of the opinion that Maye would be a consolation prize in your mind, and while you’re entitled to that I think he’s wayyyyyy better than that. Both of these guys would have been the consensus #1 pick in the draft in each of the past 2 years, and without Williams being in this draft we’d be hearing a lot of “Lose Today For Maye” or the like. With all of that said, we all know Chicago - if we pick 1st and take Maye over Williams you know he’d get booed at the Bulls game just like Mitch did. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StLunatic88 Posted November 9, 2023 Share Posted November 9, 2023 1 hour ago, AZBearsFan said: You might be the only one. JJ is a fine prospect but I don’t think he’s in the class of either Williams or Maye. 3 hours ago, Madmike90 said: Yea, Im really starting to worry about Madmike and this take. If McCarthy is in this draft with all the top eligible QBs, he is probably fighting with Ewers and Bo Nix for the 4th/5th QB. And Im not even sure hes beating them out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugashane Posted November 9, 2023 Share Posted November 9, 2023 1 hour ago, StLunatic88 said: Yea, Im really starting to worry about Madmike and this take. If McCarthy is in this draft with all the top eligible QBs, he is probably fighting with Ewers and Bo Nix for the 4th/5th QB. And Im not even sure hes beating them out You just got to give him 3.5 seconds on average and he'll kill it. Just watch. /s 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madmike90 Posted November 9, 2023 Share Posted November 9, 2023 4 hours ago, AZBearsFan said: You might be the only one. JJ is a fine prospect but I don’t think he’s in the class of either Williams or Maye. As a counterpoint, couldn’t you make a really similar argument about Williams with regard to his need to follow Lincoln Riley to USC? I think you can definitely say this about Maye more than Williams. USC doesn’t have MHJ but they do have 5* recruit Mario Williams and 4* recruit Brendan Rice at WR, and 5* recruit Marshawn Lloyd at RB, and last year had Jordan Addison transfer in from Pitt to play with Williams. Each of those guys is a legit NFL prospect, and Addison has been an immediate star in the NFL after being a Biletnikoff award winner before transferring to USC. Williams is working with one of the most loaded talent bases around him of any QB in the country right now in what is very clearly IMO the most QB friendly offensive system in college football. Not exactly Josh Allen dragging his team up the hill at Wyoming flanked by a bunch of future potato farmers. I don’t think anyone will dispute that Williams’ instincts are elite, but most would say Maye’s are also elite. Maye also comes with more prototypical NFL QB stature than Williams (listed 6’5” 220) and well above average athleticism for the position. I’m not saying any of this to criticize Williams. He’s a great QB prospect and any team needing a QB would be thrilled to get him. But the difference between he and Maye as prospects is far smaller than you’re making it out to be. You seem to be of the opinion that Maye would be a consolation prize in your mind, and while you’re entitled to that I think he’s wayyyyyy better than that. Both of these guys would have been the consensus #1 pick in the draft in each of the past 2 years, and without Williams being in this draft we’d be hearing a lot of “Lose Today For Maye” or the like. With all of that said, we all know Chicago - if we pick 1st and take Maye over Williams you know he’d get booed at the Bulls game just like Mitch did. Again I am not saying I like JJ more than Maye...I am saying I don't really know yet...I haven't seen anything that clearly separates the two of them...I was listening to the Athletic this morning and they were speaking to a Caorlina beat writer who has know Maye since he was 16 years old...and when asked how would you put Bears fans at ease about another QB from North Carolina with a high pick it wasn't exactly a glowing report...I think he does a ton of things well...I think he does some things great...but I am not sure what is truly special about him... And that counterpoint doesn't really work considering Caleb was the clear cut QB1 at Oklahoma when Riley left and Caleb left to become the clear cut QB1 at USC...this wasn't a case of someone being scared of competition or not being able to win the starting job. Star ratings mean nothing to me to be fair...now I fully agree he he has some weapons on the outside no doubt...but who on his OL is being drafted in the first 4 rounds? No one IMO...and as we all know everything here needs to start up front...it's why Caleb is most running for his life...I also agree that Maye isn't working with great talent either and that he has excellent size for the position but I don't think his instincts and raw playmaking ability can be compared to Caleb. I agree either go #1 overall in a class where they are alone...but I do still feel there is a gap when I watch them play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madmike90 Posted November 9, 2023 Share Posted November 9, 2023 5 hours ago, Bigbear72 said: This doesn't bother me at all. I think it is better to go somewhere where he will get the vast majority of the snaps as oppose to splitting them. People knock qbs for not have a lot of starting reps all the time. The experience starting is important. I guess I am just more competitive than that...if I wanted to go somewhere then it wouldn't matter who else was there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madmike90 Posted November 9, 2023 Share Posted November 9, 2023 2 hours ago, StLunatic88 said: Yea, Im really starting to worry about Madmike and this take. If McCarthy is in this draft with all the top eligible QBs, he is probably fighting with Ewers and Bo Nix for the 4th/5th QB. And Im not even sure hes beating them out It's nice you care 😏 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigbear72 Posted November 9, 2023 Share Posted November 9, 2023 11 minutes ago, Madmike90 said: I guess I am just more competitive than that...if I wanted to go somewhere then it wouldn't matter who else was there. I get being competitive but you also have to be smart. Where you play matters. Your development matters. Who's coaching and committed to developing you matters. Ask Justin Fields. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madmike90 Posted November 9, 2023 Share Posted November 9, 2023 (edited) 25 minutes ago, Bigbear72 said: I get being competitive but you also have to be smart. Where you play matters. Your development matters. Who's coaching and committed to developing you matters. Ask Justin Fields. Of course but are we saying the coaches at UNC do a better job of developing talent than those at Bama? For me this is just a guy who figured he would be beaten out. Edited November 9, 2023 by Madmike90 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigbear72 Posted November 9, 2023 Share Posted November 9, 2023 5 minutes ago, Madmike90 said: Of course but are we saying the coaches at UNC do a better job of developing talent than those at Bama? For me this is just a guy who figured he would be beaten out. Or his parents advised him to go where the playing time was. Or someone else maybe. QBs do this all the time. See Hurts and Burrow. Worked out okay for them I'd say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madmike90 Posted November 9, 2023 Share Posted November 9, 2023 16 minutes ago, Bigbear72 said: Or his parents advised him to go where the playing time was. Or someone else maybe. QBs do this all the time. See Hurts and Burrow. Worked out okay for them I'd say. I'm not saying it can't...players in the league come from all sorts of backgrounds...but much like anything else in evaluating it shouldn't be seen as black & white...it's a ton of gray and every little bit of information should be evaluated...this sort of thing should be taken into consideration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigbear72 Posted November 9, 2023 Share Posted November 9, 2023 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Madmike90 said: I'm not saying it can't...players in the league come from all sorts of backgrounds...but much like anything else in evaluating it shouldn't be seen as black & white...it's a ton of gray and every little bit of information should be evaluated...this sort of thing should be taken into consideration. While I agree a lot of information needs to be taken into account, for me at least, this would be the least of my concerns. I acknowledge you are entitled to your opinion. I just don't agree with you in this instance. Edited November 9, 2023 by Bigbear72 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madmike90 Posted November 9, 2023 Share Posted November 9, 2023 1 hour ago, Bigbear72 said: While I agree a lot of information needs to be taken into account, for me at least, this would be the least of my concerns. I acknowledge you are entitled to your opinion. I just don't agree with you in this instance. And that’s all good…like I said it is not the first thing I would look at…but it is one of the things I look at. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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