2024 Draft Debate and Discussion

[HuskieBear]

37 minutes ago, chisoxguy7 said:

I continue to feel that Poles will trade down at least once in the first round. I get the sinking feeling that MHJ isn't going to be a Bear. How would we feel about Malik Nabers in a trade down?

This is a really good WR class - it's hard for us to think of what could be until we know where our picks are. Do we have 1 or 2? we likely take a qb. is our first pick #3? QBs likely go off the board (NYG and NE are biggest bets there) and MPJ is by far the best choice. If our highest pick is #4 then a trade down is most likely i think.  

[chisoxguy7]

28 minutes ago, HuskieBear said:

This is a really good WR class - it's hard for us to think of what could be until we know where our picks are. Do we have 1 or 2? we likely take a qb. is our first pick #3? QBs likely go off the board (NYG and NE are biggest bets there) and MPJ is by far the best choice. If our highest pick is #4 then a trade down is most likely i think.  

Can Carolina lose out? If reports are true and this organization believes in Fields more than many of us here do, Poles could trade down from #1. It wouldn't shock me in the slightest. And if NYG end up at 2, are they going to draft Maye after giving Jones that huge contract? Probably not. Their OL issues are real and they may refrain from trading down, taking Fashanu in that spot. Then you have New England at 3 who really need a QB but who have struggled to draft WRs for a long time, the allure of MHJ there might be impossible for them to pass up. Arizona might be at 4 and probably won't go QB. I don't think it's a sure thing that QBs go 1-2 this year, barring trades. If Maye is sitting there at 5, does Poles take him then? For me, I get huge bust vibes from Maye.

Say at the end of the season we end up with #1 and #5. Poles, being the madman that he is, trades #1 to Atlanta, who are sitting at #10. He gets a haul, similar to the DJM trade. Now, you have #5 and #10. How are you using the picks?

1. Atlanta -  Williams

2. NYG - Fashanu

3. NE - MHJ

4. Arizona - Kind of a worst case scenario for Arizona, they take Verse

5. Chicago 

In between 5 and 10 is likely to be some combination of NYJ, TEN, GB, DEN, TB, LAR, WSH.

10. Chicago

 

Which combination of Alt/Bowers/Latu/Nabers/McKinstry are you hoping for at these pick positions? Is there another prospect who should be on this list, perhaps Newton? Or, should Poles move down from 5 again for a team desiring Maye? Your return for 5 is obviously a lot less, unless you drop way down in R1. There are going to be quite a few teams in the middle of R1 who could be looking for a QB-- New Orleans, Las Vegas, Pitt, Seattle, or if you want a lesser move down there's TB, NYJ, GB, or even possibly LAR or WSH.

I'm honestly hoping for at least one trade down. This team has a lot of holes and Poles has not done a great job in FA.

Edited November 13, 2023 by chisoxguy7

[Sugashane]

1 hour ago, chisoxguy7 said:

I continue to feel that Poles will trade down at least once in the first round. I get the sinking feeling that MHJ isn't going to be a Bear. How would we feel about Malik Nabers in a trade down?

I'd love it. I like Nabers more than Bowers. And I'm a big fan of Bowers too.

[HuskieBear]

27 minutes ago, chisoxguy7 said:

if NYG end up at 2, are they going to draft Maye after giving Jones that huge contract

you think NY passes up Williams/Maye because of Daniel Jones? you can get out of contracts, but you can't get out of being afraid. They also have 2 top 10 OTs, one of which was All Pro last year. Neal has been disappointing, but do you draft a third top ten OT in 5 years?

 

31 minutes ago, chisoxguy7 said:

Then you have New England at 3 who really need a QB but who have struggled to draft WRs for a long time, the allure of MHJ there might be impossible for them to pass up

why draft a QB when you can take MHJ and have Bailey Zappe or Mac Jones be physically unable to get the ball to them

 

32 minutes ago, chisoxguy7 said:

Arizona might be at 4 and probably won't go QB

Arizona has never drafted a QB in the top 5 after having a highly drafted QB on the roster 

[HuskieBear]

Just now, HuskieBear said:

you think NY passes up Williams/Maye because of Daniel Jones? you can get out of contracts, but you can't get out of being afraid. They also have 2 top 10 OTs, one of which was All Pro last year. Neal has been disappointing, but do you draft a third top ten OT in 5 years?

 

why draft a QB when you can take MHJ and have Bailey Zappe or Mac Jones be physically unable to get the ball to them

 

Arizona has never drafted a QB in the top 5 after having a highly drafted QB on the roster 

the point being that you can never say anything definitively regarding the draft

[chisoxguy7]

21 minutes ago, HuskieBear said:

the point being that you can never say anything definitively regarding the draft

Right. Nobody saw the Giants taking Jones at 6 to begin with!

[StLunatic88]

1 hour ago, HuskieBear said:

you think NY passes up Williams/Maye because of Daniel Jones? you can get out of contracts, but you can't get out of being afraid. They also have 2 top 10 OTs, one of which was All Pro last year. Neal has been disappointing, but do you draft a third top ten OT in 5 years?

Im pretty sure they can get out of Jones' deal after next year, saving nearly $20m on the cap (although it would still hit them with a $20m charge, hes over $40m in 2025)

And since he is likely missing most of if not all of 2024, if they are already in a spot (1 or 2) to take one of the Top QBs, seems like they would do it

[HuskieBear]

2 hours ago, StLunatic88 said:

Im pretty sure they can get out of Jones' deal after next year, saving nearly $20m on the cap (although it would still hit them with a $20m charge, hes over $40m in 2025)

And since he is likely missing most of if not all of 2024, if they are already in a spot (1 or 2) to take one of the Top QBs, seems like they would do it

exactly my point. jones being on the roster doesn't stop them from taking someone else

[chisoxguy7]

16 minutes ago, HuskieBear said:

exactly my point. jones being on the roster doesn't stop them from taking someone else

You could also argue that with Jones' contract on the books they will not be very good next year either, rather than throw a rookie QB to the wolves, commit to being bad again next season and take the QB in the 2025 draft

[StLunatic88]

12 minutes ago, chisoxguy7 said:

You could also argue that with Jones' contract on the books they will not be very good next year either, rather than throw a rookie QB to the wolves, commit to being bad again next season and take the QB in the 2025 draft

That’s a reason not to trade up for a QB. But if they are already in the position (Pick 1 or 2) then you need to take the QB especially how bad Jones was this year. Not to mention what made him workable in ‘23 was his legs. Might never be that again.

Kicking that can down the road another year because you might have a chance at another QB is extremely risky

[Madmike90]

I have watched just about every Lions game this year due to being so high on Ben Johnson as our next HC...if Johnson is the guy then I find it really tough to not think Drake Maye would be his top choice at QB...sometimes it is uncanny how alike Goff & Maye look when throwing the ball especially over the middle of the field and Maye looks to have a little more arm...I could see Caleb Williams being a lot of other coaches top choices but not Johnson...

The North Carolina connection probably doesn't hurt either.

[HuskieBear]

1 hour ago, chisoxguy7 said:

You could also argue that with Jones' contract on the books they will not be very good next year either, rather than throw a rookie QB to the wolves, commit to being bad again next season and take the QB in the 2025 draft

do you realize how bad you have to be in order to get to top 2 picks OR how much you need to give up to get to those picks? 

you could argue that if NY ends up with 1 or 2, now is the perfect time to take a qb. let jones play another year with the rookie being the backup and taking a season to learn (in theory) that way you ARENT throwing him to the wolves AND you are another year closer/less money to cut jones the next season

[chisoxguy7]

2 hours ago, HuskieBear said:

do you realize how bad you have to be in order to get to top 2 picks OR how much you need to give up to get to those picks? 

you could argue that if NY ends up with 1 or 2, now is the perfect time to take a qb. let jones play another year with the rookie being the backup and taking a season to learn (in theory) that way you ARENT throwing him to the wolves AND you are another year closer/less money to cut jones the next season

Just my personal opinion that Daboll stays as a semi-lame duck HC and the next staff picks their QB since this one Eber-flubbed their QB choice with giving Jones a big contract

[Docknstein11]

Haven’t watched enough LSU to understand why but Jayden Daniels seems like he’s flying way under the radar. Can anyone tell me why? On the surface he seems to have no major flaws and he’s been dominant this year.
 

I’m also fully on the Maye>Williams train so tell me why I’m stupid for having this opinion. 

[Madmike90]

3 hours ago, Docknstein11 said:

Haven’t watched enough LSU to understand why but Jayden Daniels seems like he’s flying way under the radar. Can anyone tell me why? On the surface he seems to have no major flaws and he’s been dominant this year.
 

I’m also fully on the Maye>Williams train so tell me why I’m stupid for having this opinion. 

I am not so sure you are at this point...and this from a guy who's opinion is slowly being turned on this debate...

Don't get me wrong I believe if everything goes right for both these guys in terms of coaching, scheme, talent around them, personal life in a new city then Williams can be the elite of the elite...he is that special...but the question is how often do young QBs get that perfect scenario? I don't care about Caleb painting his nails or crying to his mum...I do care about some of the petulance we have seen as a leader when things get tough...as big as USC is it ain't the NFL and the tough times are going to be magnified...that is going to be the biggest hurdle in the pros for Caleb to get over along with not believing he has to do everything himself...

Listening to Maye he seems a lot more even keeled as a leader...he reminds me a little of Justin Herbert or Josh Allen in that regard...you see the fire at times but he is able to flip the switch and settle back down for the next play...where as I think Williams has the higher ceiling it's it's utter pinnacle I think Maye has a high floor in the pros and probably a higher potential of hitting his ceiling than Williams does give his play is more traditional than. 

Again I am a big believer you draft great not good in the top few picks and looking at the full body of work over their careers no one can say Williams isn't the better QB...if he played on a team with a defence he would have been the best QB of all time at the college level...but sticking the landing in the pros will be harder for Williams than Maye IMO and sometimes you have to play the percentages when both guys are quality prospects.