2024 Draft Debate and Discussion

[topwop1]

2 hours ago, Madmike90 said:

I will be honest...I couldn't care less about the crying or the fingernail painting...

What I will say though is I wonder how Poles & Co view Williams vs. Maye and the reason for that is how they viewed Sweat vs. Young...

The absolutely highest of highs Young is a super talented pass rusher but with maturity issues and who free lances too much at times.

Sweat offers consistently high level play who will be in the right place at the right time for the team but might not make a play that makes you jump out your seat as often.

It's the same as these two QBs...Maye will give you more consistent play but might not make as many highlight reel plays but also will play within the scheme and not make as many mistakes to hurt your team while trying to look like a start...

And still don't sleep on JJ McCarthy.

I agree with you on all that, I just think the pouting and body language at times are a bit unsettling for a guy that is talked about potentially being taken 1st overall

I don't know like I said I get a douchey vibe from this guy 

The physical side is there but does he have the mental side down pat?

That's the biggest question 

[Madmike90]

9 minutes ago, topwop1 said:

I agree with you on all that, I just think the pouting and body language at times are a bit unsettling for a guy that is talked about potentially being taken 1st overall

I don't know like I said I get a douchey vibe from this guy 

The physical side is there but does he have the mental side down pat?

That's the biggest question 

Jay Cutler 2.0 😂

[beardown3231]

The fact that these discussions are happening is a good thing. The more I watch Maye I like him but I love Williams. Either guy has a future 2x brighter than Fields and are a lot more scheme diverse. As Bears fans we'll naturally talk ourselves out of both guys by the time April is here

[topwop1]

54 minutes ago, Madmike90 said:

Jay Cutler 2.0 😂

At least Jay was tough. Don't think we'd ever see him crying in his mom's arms as an adult after a loss. That's soft as hell lmao

[AZBearsFan]

The debate between Williams and Maye will be really interesting this draft season. Both are elite prospects but also significantly different. There are things I like better about each over the other.

Watching Williams he just looks like Mahomes out there with his off schedule ability. His ability to street ball plays when needed and turn them into something special is just awesome. BUT, that same thing is what scares me about him a little, because what works for Mahomes in that regard at the NFL level has failed spectacularly for others at the pro level. There’s also the element to the equation that while Lincoln Riley QBs have been Heisman winners and #1 overall picks and starters at the NFL level none of them are stars at the NFL level thus far. Fair to Williams or not, people will look at that.

Maye is more of an on schedule player, though he’s also very good when things break down and on the move. He seems to make more tight windows than Williams does when I watch both play, which is a NFL necessity. I like that he’s been highly successful without Lincoln Riley and without USC/Oklahoma surrounding talent too. He also will face (unfair) questions about his UNC predecessors (Trubisky and Howell) being just guys at the NFL level despite being highly productive in college.

Personally I go back and forth. At present, I am of the belief that Williams may need a more specific type of coach to reach his potential in the NFL than Maye will. Maye is more “classically elite” as a prospect than Williams is, and I think that will matter to NFL talent evaluators. Both have obvious superstar potential, but for some teams and maybe for a lot of teams, they may have a better idea what to do with Maye than with Williams. 

[Bigbear72]

6 minutes ago, AZBearsFan said:

The debate between Williams and Maye will be really interesting this draft season. Both are elite prospects but also significantly different. There are things I like better about each over the other.

Watching Williams he just looks like Mahomes out there with his off schedule ability. His ability to street ball plays when needed and turn them into something special is just awesome. BUT, that same thing is what scares me about him a little, because what works for Mahomes in that regard at the NFL level has failed spectacularly for others at the pro level. There’s also the element to the equation that while Lincoln Riley QBs have been Heisman winners and #1 overall picks and starters at the NFL level none of them are stars at the NFL level thus far. Fair to Williams or not, people will look at that.

Maye is more of an on schedule player, though he’s also very good when things break down and on the move. He seems to make more tight windows than Williams does when I watch both play, which is a NFL necessity. I like that he’s been highly successful without Lincoln Riley and without USC/Oklahoma surrounding talent too. He also will face (unfair) questions about his UNC predecessors (Trubisky and Howell) being just guys at the NFL level despite being highly productive in college.

Personally I go back and forth. At present, I am of the belief that Williams may need a more specific type of coach to reach his potential in the NFL than Maye will. Maye is more “classically elite” as a prospect than Williams is, and I think that will matter to NFL talent evaluators. Both have obvious superstar potential, but for some teams and maybe for a lot of teams, they may have a better idea what to do with Maye than with Williams. 

I agree here. It will come down to who is the one drafting in my opinion. I could totally see this regime valuing Maye over Williams for the reasons that you have listed above.

[AZBearsFan]

40 minutes ago, Bigbear72 said:

I agree here. It will come down to who is the one drafting in my opinion. I could totally see this regime valuing Maye over Williams for the reasons that you have listed above.

Not just this regime IMO. A lot of regimes. 

[Bigbear72]

4 minutes ago, AZBearsFan said:

Not just this regime IMO. A lot of regimes. 

I agree totally. I was just speaking of us specifically in regards to these two prospects.

[beardown3231]

2 hours ago, AZBearsFan said:

The debate between Williams and Maye will be really interesting this draft season. Both are elite prospects but also significantly different. There are things I like better about each over the other.

Watching Williams he just looks like Mahomes out there with his off schedule ability. His ability to street ball plays when needed and turn them into something special is just awesome. BUT, that same thing is what scares me about him a little, because what works for Mahomes in that regard at the NFL level has failed spectacularly for others at the pro level. There’s also the element to the equation that while Lincoln Riley QBs have been Heisman winners and #1 overall picks and starters at the NFL level none of them are stars at the NFL level thus far. Fair to Williams or not, people will look at that.

Maye is more of an on schedule player, though he’s also very good when things break down and on the move. He seems to make more tight windows than Williams does when I watch both play, which is a NFL necessity. I like that he’s been highly successful without Lincoln Riley and without USC/Oklahoma surrounding talent too. He also will face (unfair) questions about his UNC predecessors (Trubisky and Howell) being just guys at the NFL level despite being highly productive in college.

Personally I go back and forth. At present, I am of the belief that Williams may need a more specific type of coach to reach his potential in the NFL than Maye will. Maye is more “classically elite” as a prospect than Williams is, and I think that will matter to NFL talent evaluators. Both have obvious superstar potential, but for some teams and maybe for a lot of teams, they may have a better idea what to do with Maye than with Williams. 

I would argue Jalen Hurts is a star

My issue with Maye is he has a little Jay Cutler in him. It's one read, it's trying to fit throws into tight spaces off of his back foot. Everything else looks like Justin Herbert but Herbert doesn't make the "my arm is a laser so watch this ****" throws

I'd take Williams first but I'll be excited for Maye too

Edited November 8, 2023 by beardown3231

[HuskieBear]

1 hour ago, beardown3231 said:

Herbert doesn't make the "my arm is a laser so watch this ****" throws

lol he absolutely does. he just doesn't have the cockiness that makes you think he does

[beardown3231]

3 hours ago, HuskieBear said:

lol he absolutely does. he just doesn't have the cockiness that makes you think he does

Interceptions aren't the be all end all, but Herbert throws an INT once every 2 games or so. Don't get me wrong, he has a big arm but he isn't consistently putting the ball in danger. If Maye plays how he does now in the NFL, he'll have 20 picks a year.

[Madmike90]

7 hours ago, AZBearsFan said:

The debate between Williams and Maye will be really interesting this draft season. Both are elite prospects but also significantly different. There are things I like better about each over the other.

Watching Williams he just looks like Mahomes out there with his off schedule ability. His ability to street ball plays when needed and turn them into something special is just awesome. BUT, that same thing is what scares me about him a little, because what works for Mahomes in that regard at the NFL level has failed spectacularly for others at the pro level. There’s also the element to the equation that while Lincoln Riley QBs have been Heisman winners and #1 overall picks and starters at the NFL level none of them are stars at the NFL level thus far. Fair to Williams or not, people will look at that.

Maye is more of an on schedule player, though he’s also very good when things break down and on the move. He seems to make more tight windows than Williams does when I watch both play, which is a NFL necessity. I like that he’s been highly successful without Lincoln Riley and without USC/Oklahoma surrounding talent too. He also will face (unfair) questions about his UNC predecessors (Trubisky and Howell) being just guys at the NFL level despite being highly productive in college.

Personally I go back and forth. At present, I am of the belief that Williams may need a more specific type of coach to reach his potential in the NFL than Maye will. Maye is more “classically elite” as a prospect than Williams is, and I think that will matter to NFL talent evaluators. Both have obvious superstar potential, but for some teams and maybe for a lot of teams, they may have a better idea what to do with Maye than with Williams. 

The concern for me is still are any of the two of them better than Fields in the right scheme with the right support?...

Are Caleb or Maye better than Justin behind this interior OL and with these receiving options having Getsy call plays for them? I am not so sure.

Now of course things like a rookie contract and not having the scaring of being on the losing side time and time again have to be taken into consideration but if anyone thinks we could just trade out Fields for one of these rookies and not see significant talent upgrades elsewhere on the offence and when it comes to play calling I think they will be sorely disappointed.

With Fields out against Carolina then with a little more time to recover for the Detroit it is going to be a massive seven game span for his career & our options in the offseason...I just hope the talent around him and play calling give us the best shot at getting a true evaluation of wither or not he is the guy or not.  

[BEAR FACE DOWN ARROW]

On 11/5/2023 at 7:15 AM, topwop1 said:

I agree with you on all that, I just think the pouting and body language at times are a bit unsettling for a guy that is talked about potentially being taken 1st overall

I don't know like I said I get a douchey vibe from this guy 

The physical side is there but does he have the mental side down pat?

That's the biggest question 

Was listening to a podcast on the road today and heard something about that situation that gave me a different perspective on it.  That may have been Williams' last game in college, as they're likely out of the bowl games/championships and they lost even though he put a ton of points on the board.  I have zero problem with a guy crying at the end of a chapter, but to be fair I have watched exactly 0 games of his so have no idea what impression he puts on a screen.

[Sugashane]

3 hours ago, BEAR FACE DOWN ARROW said:

Was listening to a podcast on the road today and heard something about that situation that gave me a different perspective on it.  That may have been Williams' last game in college, as they're likely out of the bowl games/championships and they lost even though he put a ton of points on the board.  I have zero problem with a guy crying at the end of a chapter, but to be fair I have watched exactly 0 games of his so have no idea what impression he puts on a screen.

I could see someone loving or hating him personally. Reports that he wanted partial ownership could be completely overblown or total nonsense, but if true he's ******* delusional. The crying thing is a grab bag too. If he knows it is his last college game and he shares that moment to reflect with his mother that can be super emotional. Being a star on an underperforming team has to suck (I was always JAG on good to REALLY good teams, so IDK what being a star is like   lol). The painting of his nails to say **** whoever is just immature and stupid no matter how you cut it IMO. But if you have the balls to write **** Utah and not shake hands with opposing teams after games, you can definitely come across as soft wimp for sobbing after the game. He put himself in a crappy spot with his antics. That being said it sounds like his teammates love him and will go to battle for him and he is super talented to boot.

I actually really like Maye too, he is a better prospect than Tru was and is someone that SHOULD be in talks for a top 3 pick. Tru shouldn't have been, but was lucky that Watson's aggressiveness and Mahomes being from an Air Raid system both worked against them so much.

Honestly I like Williams, I think he needs a strong leader to kind of corral the childish antics and help him keep developing. I have no doubt Harbaugh can do it but will he bring someone with him to run a current offense? I am assuming he could build a hell of a staff but IDK if he will want to do any playcalling or not. I also firmly believe Johnson is creative enough to get the best out of him but is he the one pushing and controlling the team's egos or is that Campbell? 

 

 

[AZBearsFan]

8 hours ago, Madmike90 said:

The concern for me is still are any of the two of them better than Fields in the right scheme with the right support?...

Are Caleb or Maye better than Justin behind this interior OL and with these receiving options having Getsy call plays for them? I am not so sure.

Both Williams and Maye will grade out higher than Fields did as a prospect with basically everyone. I have very little doubt about that. I’m still a believer in Fields’ ability with the right mind designing the offense. Unfortunately we don’t have that mind, and by the time we do the new mind(s) will likely want to start with a fresh prospect anyway.

If we pick in the top 2 in 2024 the only way Fields is still our QB next year is if he’s AWESOME the last 7 games of the year, and in order for him to do that he’d have to do it in spite of Getsy not really knowing how best to utilize what he does well.