Jets 2023 General Talk

[xrade]

19 hours ago, jetfuel34 said:

I do remeber rumors not long ago that JD and Saleh did not want Zach Wilson but Woody said you better take Zach because he has a big arm and will put butts in the seats. I did not know what JD and Saleh wanted to do but I assume they wanted to trade down. JD was getting a ton of calls for the second pick that year. I think Woody is about 90% at fault for this team by telling people what to do instaed of letting the pros do it. 

Sadly, we will never know.  We all suspect Woody was behind the whole AR thing and AR behind the Lazard, Cobb, Hackett debacle.  I think JD wanted Carr.  I never heard of Woody being the driver behind Zach but it would not surprise me since he also had a woody for Tebow.  See what I did there? 

I do not fault JD for a lot of the QB personnel moves that were made because I do not think he was behind them.  But, I do believe he is the driver of the OL moves and that itself is a tremendous fail.

[GangGreen420]

That’s the company you want to have

[NJerseypaint]

6 hours ago, GangGreen420 said:

That’s the company you want to have

JD's first year was after FA and the draft, and unlike other GMs he didn't get to chose his staff when he came in.

[Jag68Sid87]

The excuses and the protecting of this GM is old and stale. He is no prodigy. Most GMs are not. So now we want to blame Woody Johnson for Zach Wilson being on this roster? OK.

For all we know, Woody Johnson and David Tepper (Carolina) are both nuts. In Carolina, rumor has it that Reich wanted Stroud, Tepper wanted Bryce Young. So Stroud becomes a stud right away, and Young is struggling mightily as a rookie. So naturally, Tepper fires Reich! This rumor is juicy, but is it reality? You know what they say about how there is always three sides to every story (yours, mine and the truth). I feel like the Carolina situation falls under that category.

So now back to us. So, we are to believe that Woody is behind all of this mess? He is the one telling Douglas to tell Saleh to play Wilson for two years. THEN, suddenly Woody gets an epiphany and tells them to hop on a plane to California because Aaron Rodgers is available! 

I am not saying it is impossible. Anything is possible. But if Woody is that impulsive, then he would have soured on Zach Wilson when he realized we needed Rodgers. And yet, who was under center the moment Rodgers went down up until last week? Something is missing from this story.

If Woody calls all of the shots, they we need new puppets for this puppeteer. To me, it is as simple as that. Professional sports are results-oriented. None of this process nonsense. You win, or you get replaced and the cycle continues.

Football men far better than our current regime have come and gone in this organization without winning anything over the span of many decades. Why should these guys be any different?

[NJerseypaint]

1 hour ago, Jag68Sid87 said:

The excuses and the protecting of this GM is old and stale. He is no prodigy. Most GMs are not. So now we want to blame Woody Johnson for Zach Wilson being on this roster? OK.

For all we know, Woody Johnson and David Tepper (Carolina) are both nuts. In Carolina, rumor has it that Reich wanted Stroud, Tepper wanted Bryce Young. So Stroud becomes a stud right away, and Young is struggling mightily as a rookie. So naturally, Tepper fires Reich! This rumor is juicy, but is it reality? You know what they say about how there is always three sides to every story (yours, mine and the truth). I feel like the Carolina situation falls under that category.

So now back to us. So, we are to believe that Woody is behind all of this mess? He is the one telling Douglas to tell Saleh to play Wilson for two years. THEN, suddenly Woody gets an epiphany and tells them to hop on a plane to California because Aaron Rodgers is available! 

I am not saying it is impossible. Anything is possible. But if Woody is that impulsive, then he would have soured on Zach Wilson when he realized we needed Rodgers. And yet, who was under center the moment Rodgers went down up until last week? Something is missing from this story.

If Woody calls all of the shots, they we need new puppets for this puppeteer. To me, it is as simple as that. Professional sports are results-oriented. None of this process nonsense. You win, or you get replaced and the cycle continues.

Football men far better than our current regime have come and gone in this organization without winning anything over the span of many decades. Why should these guys be any different?

Nah, it all does follow.

Woody choosing to draft Wilsons at #2 when we have no other QB on the roster forces everyone to start him year one and then again year two to see if he progressed. Year three, we are just hoping he can learn on the bench, but 3 plays in he's now the starter.

Keeping all that in mind, that JD was stuck with Gase and Sam at first, then stuck with Zach, and now Hackett. Seeing he's had the least control over his QB and OC and those are our biggest woes, how can that totally be on JD. He's done well when he's been given the freedom to choose. He's hit way more than not and his biggest blunder isn't even his.

[GangGreen420]

2 hours ago, NJerseypaint said:

Nah, it all does follow.

Woody choosing to draft Wilsons at #2 when we have no other QB on the roster forces everyone to start him year one and then again year two to see if he progressed. Year three, we are just hoping he can learn on the bench, but 3 plays in he's now the starter.

Keeping all that in mind, that JD was stuck with Gase and Sam at first, then stuck with Zach, and now Hackett. Seeing he's had the least control over his QB and OC and those are our biggest woes, how can that totally be on JD. He's done well when he's been given the freedom to choose. He's hit way more than not and his biggest blunder isn't even his.

Woody forced the Zach pick on Douglas? 

[NJerseypaint]

Really wish we were starting Zach for the Falcons game. Probably our weakest opponent so far and Boyle is going to blow it for us.

[Jag68Sid87]

21 hours ago, NJerseypaint said:

Nah, it all does follow.

Woody choosing to draft Wilsons at #2 when we have no other QB on the roster forces everyone to start him year one and then again year two to see if he progressed. Year three, we are just hoping he can learn on the bench, but 3 plays in he's now the starter.

Keeping all that in mind, that JD was stuck with Gase and Sam at first, then stuck with Zach, and now Hackett. Seeing he's had the least control over his QB and OC and those are our biggest woes, how can that totally be on JD. He's done well when he's been given the freedom to choose. He's hit way more than not and his biggest blunder isn't even his.

 

18 hours ago, GangGreen420 said:

Woody forced the Zach pick on Douglas? 

Yeah, this is where there is a disconnect with me as well. To suggest Douglas has done well when given the freedom to choose is sheer speculation. So, we are to believe that everything that Douglas has done well was when he was given freedom, but him screwing up royally was the owner's fault?

Sorry, not buying it. 

[NJerseypaint]

26 minutes ago, Jag68Sid87 said:

 

Yeah, this is where there is a disconnect with me as well. To suggest Douglas has done well when given the freedom to choose is sheer speculation. So, we are to believe that everything that Douglas has done well was when he was given freedom, but him screwing up royally was the owner's fault?

Sorry, not buying it. 

Aren't the rumors that both JD and Saleh wanted to trade down instead of drafting Zach?

I'm having trouble finding sources now, but I that's why I wrote what I wrote. If that's not the case, then I'm fine with laying Zach on JD but I'm still behind letting him right the ship. We are far from the sad state Idzik left us in and I feel like we're at most 2 years from being a consistently good football team.

[Big T]

I don't think Johnson forced JD's hand in picking ZW. JD has had his misses but the reason the OL is so bad is because the past few years JD made the mistake of letting guys like Fant, and Moses leave in FA, among others.

His first round picks within the first 3 years on the OL have been injured at an average of 2 years back to back.

AVT we all know is good, but like Becton has missed 2 years back to back with injuries. Throw in our starting C, throw in our backups to injury and we have what we have now. Which is "is there a healthy body?" we can throw in there to protect our QB?

JD has made some great FA pickups on D, and has built the D up to where it is a top unit in football. Without pointing fingers he hasn't done as well on O.

Lazard was a bad signing (blame the Rodgers effect) Uzomah was another failed signing, our WR room is terrible outside of G.W.

Our RB room is no different, we have B.H. and a rookie with home run ability who can't see the field, Cooks has been a total disaster, as has Hackett in his capacity as OC (Again the Rodgers effect). 

Our TE room is not bad, but Conklin doest get the ball enough and Ruckert like Conklin is under used as viable offensive weapons, and this on a team searching for answers.

So JD signed FA Conklin, drafted Ruckert, he did well. 

No GM hits it out of the park year after year, and to compare him to M.M. is crazy, he was terrible right up there with Idzik who lasted little more than a year, and Ma-gag-nan who together set the Jets back a decade with their terrible choices.

But JD has to show he is the GM we all think he is this year with a minimal number of draft choices has to make the right moves.

We all have our own feelings on the draft, common sense tells us draft an OT in round 1, on the other hand draft down if someone offers up additional draft capitol.

Can we pass on a Harrison if he falls to us at WR or Bowers at TE, both of whom will scorch the NFL for years to come?

JD again has to hit on his draft picks, not guys who can develop, heaven knows we have enough of them. We have to draft with a mindset of plugging these guys in immediately, especially on the OL and WR.

RB can be had as far down as 6-7th pick and have a game wrecker, the RB pool every year is plenteous.

JD has his work cut out for him, AR has to be protected (priority one) get some weapons (priority two) get the team a NT who can stop the run in its tracks.

 

 

[Big T]

Here's the real question, Will the Jets even win another game all year?

I don't see the Jets as untalented, but rather dysfunctional, and THAT falls on the current coaching staff, Rodgers or not.

Yes, Disfunctional, without a clue, you can only win on (defensive) talent for a period of time, it becomes painfully obvious that week after week your staff is being outreached. 

The Jets vs any team is being out coached, NE as bad as they are with a QB who will never play for them again after this year is 4-0 against the Jets.

Coaching matters. Our coaches are underwhelming at best.

[doumeyer]

On 11/30/2023 at 12:22 PM, xrade said:

Sadly, we will never know.  We all suspect Woody was behind the whole AR thing and AR behind the Lazard, Cobb, Hackett debacle.  I think JD wanted Carr.  I never heard of Woody being the driver behind Zach but it would not surprise me since he also had a woody for Tebow.  See what I did there? 

I do not fault JD for a lot of the QB personnel moves that were made because I do not think he was behind them.  But, I do believe he is the driver of the OL moves and that itself is a tremendous fail.

I could not say this any better myself. I agree 100 % with your post. This Zach Wilson pick has Woody Johnson, finger prints all over it.

[jetfan8178]

Random thought but its incredible to me that we are so stuck with Laken Tomlinson. Is he just that bad or is it the lack of quality at LT?

Side bar, what are the odds we can fill the OL holes in FA? 

Jonah Williams  or Mike Onwenu? Maybe Yosh Nijman is an option? 

We obviously have Vera Tucker for RG, Tippman at C. How high is the staff on carter warren and can he show enough to garner a decision there?

I like the idea of filling holes thru free agency and then being able to draft BPA. We havent done so great in that regard as of late sadly but a revamped OL with

Jonah Williams, Laken Tomlinson, Joe Tippman, Mike Onwenu, Vera Tucker

Leaves us open to take BPA in the first or trade down and gather more picks. All depends on where we end up. 

 

[xrade]

5 hours ago, Big T said:

JD made the mistake of letting guys like Fant, and Moses leave in FA

Fant had one decent season. He was not that good before that even on Seattle. Good LT are not allowed to walk. Moses wanted to start and Washington gave him that option. He did not want to remain a Jet.  I do not consider them mistakes. Now if you want to talk about Tomlinson, or any other FA OL or about putting too much faith in Becton, then yes, JF has failed miserably at fixing the OL. And if we are going to crucify JD for Fant and Moses, should he also not be praised for signing them in the first place?

[xrade]

1 hour ago, jetfan8178 said:

Jonah Williams, Laken Tomlinson, Joe Tippman, Mike Onwenu, Vera Tucker

That is a horrible left side of the OL. Williams and Tomlinson are not good. We will be picking top 10. Let’s just get the best damn OT in the first round and best available FA OG and fix the OL already. Enough with the bandaids and FA’s that rarely work out.