Jets 2023 General Talk

[drew39k]

17 minutes ago, GangGreen420 said:

LOL agree to disagree would be the best route to go here.

 

Do you feel pass rushing, especially if you can win with just 4 rushers is a sign of a good defense? Do you feel like, if your defense can win at the line of scrimmage it makes things harder for the offense?

The jets defense is so good because they win at the line. It's allowed them to hold guys like Hurts, Allen and Mahommes to pedestrian numbers.

The jets offensive line is so bad that they are effectively allowing every defense they face, look like the Jets, yet you expect the jets QB to play better than the QBs that are going against the Jets defense? Make that make sense man.

Also, the difference between zw and a mid qb this season is about 5 percentage points in completions. Jets players not named Garret Wilson have dropped something like 16 percent of catchable passes in their direction. Even average pass catching would have put Zach above 65 percent, keeping more drives alive. Multiple jets have also dropped wide open easy tds.

At no point am I making the argument that Zach is great or even all that good, just that he has shown improvement and is the youngest qb on the team with the best arm, most mobility and has at least some level of upside. 

Please feel free to explain your disagreement.

[doumeyer]

1 hour ago, drew39k said:

Do you feel pass rushing, especially if you can win with just 4 rushers is a sign of a good defense? Do you feel like, if your defense can win at the line of scrimmage it makes things harder for the offense?

The jets defense is so good because they win at the line. It's allowed them to hold guys like Hurts, Allen and Mahommes to pedestrian numbers.

The jets offensive line is so bad that they are effectively allowing every defense they face, look like the Jets, yet you expect the jets QB to play better than the QBs that are going against the Jets defense? Make that make sense man.

Also, the difference between zw and a mid qb this season is about 5 percentage points in completions. Jets players not named Garret Wilson have dropped something like 16 percent of catchable passes in their direction. Even average pass catching would have put Zach above 65 percent, keeping more drives alive. Multiple jets have also dropped wide open easy tds.

At no point am I making the argument that Zach is great or even all that good, just that he has shown improvement and is the youngest qb on the team with the best arm, most mobility and has at least some level of upside. 

Please feel free to explain your disagreement.

All five or six of you guys have good points, the problem is we have a huge miss on our hands. And our future is in doubt, and that is the scary thing.

[GangGreen420]

2 hours ago, drew39k said:

Do you feel pass rushing, especially if you can win with just 4 rushers is a sign of a good defense? Do you feel like, if your defense can win at the line of scrimmage it makes things harder for the offense?

The jets defense is so good because they win at the line. It's allowed them to hold guys like Hurts, Allen and Mahommes to pedestrian numbers.

The jets offensive line is so bad that they are effectively allowing every defense they face, look like the Jets, yet you expect the jets QB to play better than the QBs that are going against the Jets defense? Make that make sense man.

Also, the difference between zw and a mid qb this season is about 5 percentage points in completions. Jets players not named Garret Wilson have dropped something like 16 percent of catchable passes in their direction. Even average pass catching would have put Zach above 65 percent, keeping more drives alive. Multiple jets have also dropped wide open easy tds.

At no point am I making the argument that Zach is great or even all that good, just that he has shown improvement and is the youngest qb on the team with the best arm, most mobility and has at least some level of upside. 

Please feel free to explain your disagreement.

What are you trying to argue then? All I said is it was MY PREFERENCE to give Siemian a start. Your post reads like your trying to defend him. I don’t EXPECT Siemian to play better but I’m willing to give him a shot after a week of practicing with all the reps.

Not all that good? He’s terrible. He’s been benched twice in two seasons under two coordinators. He has lead the Jets to one touchdown in his last three starts. He has the lowest touchdown % in NFL history. 

Multiple Jets have dropped wide open TDs from Zach? When? I think I remember Lazard dropping one. The Jets are like 6 or 7th in the league in drops. So they aren’t some team dropping balls at a historic rate. 

The offensive line sucks, but last  checked through 11 weeks they weren’t even bottom 5. Thats probably changed now. Teams like the Giants and Jacksonville aren’t completely broken on offense with bad offensive lines. Cinci just started a rookie behind their putrid offensive line. Personally I think the line issues are coaching and scheme related more than anything.

But since we are on the topic, he was pressured TWICE against the Raiders. 4.4%. Did we score a touchdown? 

Sorry that I prefer to try the other QB on the roster with starting experience before going back to this guy. It doesn’t really matter, they both suck and neither will be on the team next year.
 

[xrade]

This whole Zach vs Tim vs Trevor is rather comical. They all suck. Just because one may suck a little less does not mean they still don’t suck. As stated, they most likely won’t be on the roster next anyway. Maybe Zach as QB3.

It would be great to allow Zach to launch it. He may even find a little success. But let’s be real, the OL can’t block for dump offs never mind the extra second or two for deep shots.

The real reason for musical QB’s is for Saleh to show the rest of the team, especially the D, that he is doing all he can to stop the bleeding. Imagine being in the locker room if you keep playing the same offensive players knowing nothing will get better.

Honestly, the best move would be to fire Hackett. That would be the biggest shot in the arm. Sadly, AR would veto it. Thanks Woody. 

[jetfuel34]

12 hours ago, xrade said:

This whole Zach vs Tim vs Trevor is rather comical. They all suck. Just because one may suck a little less does not mean they still don’t suck. As stated, they most likely won’t be on the roster next anyway. Maybe Zach as QB3.

It would be great to allow Zach to launch it. He may even find a little success. But let’s be real, the OL can’t block for dump offs never mind the extra second or two for deep shots.

The real reason for musical QB’s is for Saleh to show the rest of the team, especially the D, that he is doing all he can to stop the bleeding. Imagine being in the locker room if you keep playing the same offensive players knowing nothing will get better.

Honestly, the best move would be to fire Hackett. That would be the biggest shot in the arm. Sadly, AR would veto it. Thanks Woody. 

Saleh has to go too. He is the HC and went it comes down to it he has the power to put who he wants in or out of the lineup. JD and Woody can say all they want but once game day comes Saleh has the power to put in who he wants. Does that mean going aginst the boss yes. Sometimes you have to take that risk to imporve the team. If Saleh did this and got some W's no one would be upset. Saleh is the first person that needs to go. If I was Saleh I would have fired Hackett weeks ago and I would not care what anyone said. I would simple put it "you don't perform your out the door and that includes me. If I don't put up W's I'm out too." 

[NJerseypaint]

25 minutes ago, jetfuel34 said:

Saleh has to go too. He is the HC and went it comes down to it he has the power to put who he wants in or out of the lineup. JD and Woody can say all they want but once game day comes Saleh has the power to put in who he wants. Does that mean going aginst the boss yes. Sometimes you have to take that risk to imporve the team. If Saleh did this and got some W's no one would be upset. Saleh is the first person that needs to go. If I was Saleh I would have fired Hackett weeks ago and I would not care what anyone said. I would simple put it "you don't perform your out the door and that includes me. If I don't put up W's I'm out too." 

Good luck recruiting a new OC after you first two in less than two seasons.

[jetfuel34]

19 minutes ago, NJerseypaint said:

Good luck recruiting a new OC after you first two in less than two seasons.

I don't buy the "I will not go there because you don't give a guy long enough time." That is BS. This is the NFL there is always someone that will take that job. Remember there is only 32 OC jobs in the NFL. Ken Dorsey would be an upgrade and he would be here. I was watching NFL network and they laughed when poeple said Carolina would have a hard time finding a HC because they fire them after 1 season. The gys on the show said Ya give me 10 mill and I will do the job. This is just the media thinking they know what goes on. It is simple you either put up W's or your out. This is the NFL which stands for Not For Long and this has been going on since I started in the early 80's watching. Are there some coaches that refuse to go to some teams sure but most are willing to take the job and make it their team. 

[NJerseypaint]

2 hours ago, jetfuel34 said:

I don't buy the "I will not go there because you don't give a guy long enough time." That is BS. This is the NFL there is always someone that will take that job. Remember there is only 32 OC jobs in the NFL. Ken Dorsey would be an upgrade and he would be here. I was watching NFL network and they laughed when poeple said Carolina would have a hard time finding a HC because they fire them after 1 season. The gys on the show said Ya give me 10 mill and I will do the job. This is just the media thinking they know what goes on. It is simple you either put up W's or your out. This is the NFL which stands for Not For Long and this has been going on since I started in the early 80's watching. Are there some coaches that refuse to go to some teams sure but most are willing to take the job and make it their team. 

Getting someone to take the job and getting someone who's good/sought after aren't the same. At best you'll get someone looking to make a name for themselves but good luck getting an established OC to come to the Jets after you fired two of them and now have an entire staff on the hot seat. Not to mention you're 100% going to have Rodger's calling whatever he wants out there. The only guy you'll be able to recruit after firing Hackett is another lame-duck, yes man trying to cash a check and ride some coattails.

[jetfuel34]

55 minutes ago, NJerseypaint said:

Getting someone to take the job and getting someone who's good/sought after aren't the same. At best you'll get someone looking to make a name for themselves but good luck getting an established OC to come to the Jets after you fired two of them and now have an entire staff on the hot seat. Not to mention you're 100% going to have Rodger's calling whatever he wants out there. The only guy you'll be able to recruit after firing Hackett is another lame-duck, yes man trying to cash a check and ride some coattails.

Rodgers is an exception to the rule. We all know he brings in "his guys". If Rodgers was not there guys like Ken Dorsey, a hot QB coach (Joe Brady), a fired HC who does well with the O are people who would line up for the job. A guy like Josh McDaniels would love to have the OC job. These guys know if they take a job and turn that team around they are back up top as the next hot HC. Like I said before there are only 32 jobs and most don't open. 

[GangGreen420]

Interesting 

[xrade]

9 hours ago, jetfuel34 said:

Saleh has to go too. He is the HC and went it comes down to it he has the power to put who he wants in or out of the lineup. JD and Woody can say all they want but once game day comes Saleh has the power to put in who he wants

Has he not been doing just that?  Did he not bench Cobb and Lazard (for 1 game at least) to play the young WR’s. Uz has been benched as well with a phantom injury. He benched Lawson. I’m not sure what more he can do with who plays and who doesn’t.

As for Hackett, I’m not so sure he has the authority to fire him. 

[rickyt31]

15 hours ago, GangGreen420 said:

Interesting 

Good stuff. Helps with my confidence in the playcalling. 

[drew39k]

17 hours ago, GangGreen420 said:

Interesting 

Is the implication here that on the 22, the receivers are open before the offensive line fails, but the QB just aren't throwing to those guys? If that's the case, the offensive directives need to change. It would seem like the QBs are too afraid of throwing picks so they are waiting too long to make a decision on throws. That's a coaching issue. Can't have your team playing scared.

The good news, for next year at least, is that Rodgers wouldn't have that fear. But Zach, Boyle, sienian and Rypien all just need to be told to go full baker/Jamies/flacco/fitzmagic and just huck the ball 

[jetfuel34]

17 hours ago, xrade said:

Has he not been doing just that?  Did he not bench Cobb and Lazard (for 1 game at least) to play the young WR’s. Uz has been benched as well with a phantom injury. He benched Lawson. I’m not sure what more he can do with who plays and who doesn’t.

As for Hackett, I’m not so sure he has the authority to fire him. 

No Saleh has not done enough.

He needs to strip Hackett of play calling and could even demote him. 

Saleh had no plan once AR went down and Corey Davis left. 

Saleh has been out coached in almost all of his games.

Saleh has not fixed all the flags this teams gets. I think this team gets like 10 flags a game and most are preset flags like false start. 

Saleh has failed as a HC and it will not be any better next year with him. Even if Rodgers was playing I think Saleh would still be out coached and the Jets would miss the playoffs. Heck even Hall is looking like trash and he should have Izzy in right now NOT Cook. If Hall misses this game it should be Izzy starting NOT Cook, but Saleh will cave and give Cook 15 carries for 2.2 YPC and Izzy will get 3 carries for 20 plus yards. 

In the end I don't even care anymore. I feel like we as fans care more about this team than the players and coaches combined. Jets come out flat all the time and have to try and fight from the middle of the 1st to the end of the game to make the score even look close. It has been Saleh MO for years now. The guy is trash as a HC. 

[NJerseypaint]

1 hour ago, jetfuel34 said:

Saleh has not fixed all the flags this teams gets. I think this team gets like 10 flags a game and most are preset flags like false start. 

Maybe its because we keep cycling through OL and QBs and we can't get the cadence down? When you have 4 different QBs and like 7-8 different OL combinations, you're going to have a rough go with the hard count.