Jets 2023 General Talk

[drew39k]

On 12/21/2023 at 3:20 PM, Jag68Sid87 said:

If we could get a FOURTH-round pick for Zach Wilson, that would be the steal of the century.

One thing NFL teams need to stop doing is drafting quarterbacks almost solely based on arm strength/arm ability. It is important, but it is also meaningless without some of the other things quarterbacks need to survive/thrive in the pros. You casually mentioned two of them: processing information and pocket awareness. Honestly, it really does not matter if you can throw like Michael Vick or Randell Cunningham if you have those two issues. And that is exactly what we are seeing play out in the NFL with our failed No. 2 overall pick.

Yes, we have a terrible OC. But let's stop drafting quarterbacks thinking we can correct their flaws. Hey, here is a novel idea: draft a quarterback without those critical flaws. You don't need a franchise QB to win. You don't need a HOFer. But you do need someone who knows what he is doing under center. Call it intangibles, call it football IQ, call it the mental aspect of the position, whatever. Our guy has none of that, so basically he is 100% dependent on his OC, his QB coach and the system for success. 

Why do you think Aaron Rodgers is so confident that next year will be different with Hackett? Because Aaron Rodgers does not need anyone to be great. And yes, I agree that there is a huge difference between a failed No. 2 overall pick and one of the greatest QBs of all time. But there are plenty of QBs who are not on Rodgers' level who can succeed regardless of who their OC is, or their offensive HC. They may be better with one, less great with another, but at least they are playable overall. Zach Wilson is not playable. 

Both Tua Taigovailoa and Brock Purdy have terrible arms if we compare them to Zach Wilson. But are the Dolphins and/or 49ers winning ANYTHING with Zach Wilson under center this season? 8-9, 7-10, maybe. Nothing close to what those two guys are doing. Because let's not forget, Wilson actually has a lot of things going for him with this team. Sure, the O-line has been a disaster. But many people have pointed out that many teams just keep going when they lose O-linemen. And people talk about how Purdy has weapons and Tua has the best WR duo in the NFL (maybe Purdy's is second), but Wilson's arm and Garrett Wilson's talent, Breece Hall's running ability and the team's defense (which in my opinion is on par with SF's, since it is essentially the same defense, and is better than Miami's IMO) should be enough to be able to score a few TDs here or there. If Zach Wilson could have generated one TD per game on average, this season would have been radically different.

So no, I am not too worried that we are going to trade Wilson and he will turn into a great quarterback. It would be very Jets-like if he did, but Sam Darnold is an NFL backup and Geno Smith (after a career year last season) is back to normal this year. He is a stopgap, but not Seattle's future at QB imo. Wilson has more natural arm talent than both of those guys, but his mental game is among the worst I have ever seen at the position. 

Send him to Minnesota or wherever and good riddance.

 

If you put either of Tua or Purdy in our offense they'd have failed too. And yeah, if you put Zach in either one of their situation he would have been able to win games.  You are vastly underselling how large of a difference there is between the systems in those places compared to ours. 

Both of those teams have good offensive lines, incredible running games and multiple dynamic pass catchers. 

The jets failed to surround Zach with anything remotely close to a functioning offense. They failed to provide him with even passable coaching. You could put any young QB with upside in this situation and they'd look like crap. 

Don't expect a QB to develop properly when you give them a new OC every season, a crap offensive line that has no consistency game to game and a group of wrs that have some of the highest drop rates in the game. 

The Jets followed the book, to a tee, on how to ruin a QB. It's even worse that the did the exact same thing with Darnold and show no signs of doing anything different moving forward. And honestly, it's because ownership doesn't have the balls to stand up to the segment of our fan base that has no sense of reality and expect instant magic success. And if that success isn't had then burn it all to the ground a start over hoping for more instant success.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

On 12/22/2023 at 5:38 PM, drew39k said:

If you put either of Tua or Purdy in our offense they'd have failed too. And yeah, if you put Zach in either one of their situation he would have been able to win games.  You are vastly underselling how large of a difference there is between the systems in those places compared to ours. 

Both of those teams have good offensive lines, incredible running games and multiple dynamic pass catchers. 

The jets failed to surround Zach with anything remotely close to a functioning offense. They failed to provide him with even passable coaching. You could put any young QB with upside in this situation and they'd look like crap. 

Don't expect a QB to develop properly when you give them a new OC every season, a crap offensive line that has no consistency game to game and a group of wrs that have some of the highest drop rates in the game. 

The Jets followed the book, to a tee, on how to ruin a QB. It's even worse that the did the exact same thing with Darnold and show no signs of doing anything different moving forward. And honestly, it's because ownership doesn't have the balls to stand up to the segment of our fan base that has no sense of reality and expect instant magic success. And if that success isn't had then burn it all to the ground a start over hoping for more instant success.

 

You mean like the instant success of the Houston Texans? That instant success?

Poor Sam Darnold. Poor Zach Wilson. If only we had given them the perfect situations to succeed. If only. 

Enough with that nonsense. This is professional sports. You either perform with what you are given, or you are tossed aside and someone else gives it a shot.

The problem is, the people who make decisions for this club keep failing at identifying what makes a good quarterback in the NFL. AND, they are also too arrogant in thinking that THEY can fix whatever shortcomings these quarterbacks may have. Until they step onto the field, and realize that these guys cannot play.

It is like Mike Tyson said: it all looks good until somebody punches you in the mouth.

[xrade]

2 hours ago, Jag68Sid87 said:

Poor Sam Darnold. Poor Zach Wilson. If only we had given them the perfect situations to succeed. If only. 

Enough with that nonsense. This is professional sports. You either perform with what you are given, or you are tossed aside and someone else gives it a shot.

I think both Sam and Zach were never going to be great QB’s but putting them behind this OL, with these WR’s and with all those crappy OC’s they were never going to succeed. No QB could.

[xrade]

Joe Flacco not doing too bad behind that good Cleveland OL. Maybe we should try to get him as a vet backup in the offseason.

[drew39k]

4 hours ago, Jag68Sid87 said:

You mean like the instant success of the Houston Texans? That instant success?

Poor Sam Darnold. Poor Zach Wilson. If only we had given them the perfect situations to succeed. If only. 

Enough with that nonsense. This is professional sports. You either perform with what you are given, or you are tossed aside and someone else gives it a shot.

The problem is, the people who make decisions for this club keep failing at identifying what makes a good quarterback in the NFL. AND, they are also too arrogant in thinking that THEY can fix whatever shortcomings these quarterbacks may have. Until they step onto the field, and realize that these guys cannot play.

It is like Mike Tyson said: it all looks good until somebody punches you in the mouth.

Stroud? The kid that is playing behind an offensive line that features a true LT and is ranked 12th best in the league? The Texans receiver room is also deeper. You can double Garrett Wilson and no one else can hurt you. Tank dell, nico Collins, Robert woods and Dalton schultz are much harder as a group to deal with than wilson, lazard, gipson and conklin. 

Also, when Stroud had to face a pass rush equal to when the jets offensive line has allowed, he looked like garbage.

Have things worked out tremendously for Stroud, absolutely. Would I trade Wilson for Stroud, in a heartbeat. Do I think that, if Stroud was the QB of our team, he would have been successful? Absolutely not. He isn't running for his life on every play while wrs can't get open or drop easy catches. He isn't dealing with an OC that has lead MULTIPLE offenses to bottom of the league outputs(including with a future hall of famer in Russel Wilson). 

It's not about "giving them perfect situations" as you put it. It's about giving them situations that have at least some chance of success, something the jets have failed horribly at. 

Again, there isn't a magic cure all. If a team has a garbage offensive line they will not be able to run or pass effectively. That simple.

[jetsfan4life51]

Do we throw as much money as possible at Tee Higgins?

[jetsfan4life51]

This defensive scheme annoys me.  How come when we play Miami and the ONLY threat is Waddle, we let him run loose.  Then when we play Howell and okay WRs we are locking everyone down in man.

[pf9]

The Jets might have done better in Rodgers' absence if they had traded for Cooper Rush ASAP after Rodgers got hurt. Face it Wilson is a bust.

[drew39k]

19 hours ago, pf9 said:

The Jets might have done better in Rodgers' absence if they had traded for Cooper Rush ASAP after Rodgers got hurt. Face it Wilson is a bust.

1. Cowboys weren't going to trade Cooper Rush. The league values backup QBs and the cowboys in particular are in a win now mode. They wouldn't give up the safety net behind dak in case he gets hurt again. It wouldn't be worth the risk to them for a 5th round pick 

2. Even if they did decide to trade away their backup QB(monumentally stupid decision on their part), Rush would have faced the exact same issues Rodgers, zach, Boyle and seimian all faced.... No offensive line, only one receiver and no running game. 

I'm not sure why you feel like any qb would be successful when getting pressured on 70% percent of drop backs, while the team can't run the ball and receivers can't get open or, when they do they drop the ball.

Essentially, you would have needed to trade for Mahomes, Lamar or maybe Josh allen to make any difference since they have the elite mobility and evasiveness on top of great playmaking ability to have a chance.

[jetsfan4life51]

The Jets DEF collapse almost cost me fantasy. I won by 0.25 to make it to the championship. 
 

Should I start Jerome Ford over CEH?

Should I start Jets D over Jags D?

[ekill08x]

1 hour ago, jetsfan4life51 said:

The Jets DEF collapse almost cost me fantasy. I won by 0.25 to make it to the championship. 
 

Should I start Jerome Ford over CEH?

Should I start Jets D over Jags D?

Amari Cooper single handedly destroyed my championship hopes. Good luck brother. 

[NJerseypaint]

5 hours ago, ekill08x said:

Amari Cooper single handedly destroyed my championship hopes. Good luck brother. 

Same here. Lost by 6pts to a guy who started Flacco, Cooper, and Najee Harris to my Tua, Puka, CMC.
 

@jetsfan4life51 Don't bother with Jets D. Zach is out again, so even if our defense is good, there's a good chance Trevor gives them the ball in a great positions to score.

[xrade]

19 hours ago, jetsfan4life51 said:

The Jets DEF collapse almost cost me fantasy. I won by 0.25 to make it to the championship. 
 

Should I start Jerome Ford over CEH?

Should I start Jets D over Jags D?

Jets D, yes. Jags D has been sucking for a while now. 

[doumeyer]

Look what Denver gave up to get Russell Wilson, now they want to dump him.

2022 round 1 the ninth overall pick in the draft

2022 round 2 the 40 overall pick in the draft

2023 round one the fifth overall pick in the draft

2023 round two the 37 overall pick in the draft

He was 33 years old when he sign for 245 million dollars for five years.

165 million is guarantee.

If you think we are screwed up think again.

 

[Dr.O]

This franchise is garbage and should be relegated to Jr HS ball