Draft Thread (Giants have picks #6,47,70)

[Acgott]

24 minutes ago, Cuziam71 said:

Who was there qb the year before?  They had the talent but the qb was horrendous.  We have #3wrs, bad oline maybe little better, and a qb that can't stay healthy whether it's he's brittle or getting hit 1 second after he takes a snap

Just say we get a qb in the first, how will he be better the Jones?  

Well Schultz and Brown played with Dak before coming to the Texans last year. Woods was with the Titans coming off an ACL tear. Then you had Nico Collins, a 3rd round pick who had 500 yards in his first two years. Finally another 3rd round pick in Tank Dell. I would not call any of that talent to make such a jump. 
 

I don’t watch college nor scout players, but I’ll have to assume a drafted player will be better than Jones who has shown very little in his 5 years. It may not be immediate success like Stroud, but it can be something we can build off of. That’s what we need, if we can get it.

[GMENNATION]

2 hours ago, Acgott said:

Well Schultz and Brown played with Dak before coming to the Texans last year. Woods was with the Titans coming off an ACL tear. Then you had Nico Collins, a 3rd round pick who had 500 yards in his first two years. Finally another 3rd round pick in Tank Dell. I would not call any of that talent to make such a jump. 
 

I don’t watch college nor scout players, but I’ll have to assume a drafted player will be better than Jones who has shown very little in his 5 years. It may not be immediate success like Stroud, but it can be something we can build off of. That’s what we need, if we can get it.

I'm with you philosophically. I just don't think McCarthy is the guy and I don't want to take him just because we need a QB.

[Acgott]

25 minutes ago, GMENNATION said:

I'm with you philosophically. I just don't think McCarthy is the guy and I don't want to take him just because we need a QB.

I agree. We shouldn’t be selecting the #4 QB @ #6 or higher. That’s how we got into this mess. 

[minutemancl]

I like McCarthy. I wouldn't mind him being the pick at 6 at all. I'd be less excited if we traded up for him, mainly because I hate the idea of using multiple assets on a big gamble like him, but I'd be ok with it.

The idea of grabbing Odunze at 6 and trading back into the late first for Penix has been intriguing to me for a few weeks now. I would love if that were to happen.

Unless we make some absolute crazy reach, like Bo Nix at 6 or Spencer Rattler at 47, I'm going to be excited if we bring in a QB. That's because we know what Dabs is capable of getting out of his QBs, and a new young talented guy to mold would be exciting to look forward to (so long as the draft pick value is about right).

[Acgott]

18 minutes ago, minutemancl said:

The idea of grabbing Odunze at 6 and trading back into the late first for Penix has been intriguing to me for a few weeks now. I would love if that were to happen.

I do not like that idea at all. If they want quarterback, take him high where he has a higher percentage of success. If they want Penix, trade down, not up. Unless it’s for a top 3 QB, we shouldn’t waste resources on a QB.

[minutemancl]

16 minutes ago, Acgott said:

I do not like that idea at all. If they want quarterback, take him high where he has a higher percentage of success. If they want Penix, trade down, not up. Unless it’s for a top 3 QB, we shouldn’t waste resources on a QB.

I disagree entirely. Yes, ideally, you want one of the top 3/4 guys. If you can't get them, or you have the 4th guy way behind the 3rd guy, you don't take one at 6. But you still absolutely need to take a swing on a QB in this draft somewhere. If it isn't one of the top guys at the top of the first, it needs to be elsewhere on a lottery ticket. This is the deepest, best QB class in a while. You need to be taking advantage of that, especially as a team with a very questionable QB situation.

Penix probably won't even make it to the late 20s/early 30s, so it is a moot point anyway.

[minutemancl]

Lots of smoke around JJ McCarthy being preferred over Drake Maye, and the question marks on Jayden Daniels are rearing up again. Honestly, I'm pretty sure there is fire that this smoke is coming from. There are big question marks with both Maye and Daniels on tape (alongside plenty of positives as well). With McCarthy, it's actually easier to sell yourself on him and the flaws he puts on tape because he is very young and the volume just isn't there.

If McCarthy goes somewhere in the top 3, most likely to New England at 3 if they like him better than Maye/Daniels, I really hope the Giants move up to 4 for the one of Daniels/Maye that is available. The question marks exist for both of them (Daniels has a big time hero complex, propensity to run over taking throws to open receivers, doesn't utilize the middle of the field, and is very slight and underweight. Maye also that hero complex and he misses on tape more than other players specifically on NFL caliber throws and on some gimme easy throws), but they are really good prospects overall.

This is probably not a welcome take, but I'm at the point where I think the Giants should move up to 4 regardless right now. I'd take any one of Maye/Daniels/McCarthy at 4. I think they are all worth that pick. Offer 6 and next year's first straight up to the Cardinals and just get it done. 

[Acgott]

10 minutes ago, minutemancl said:

I disagree entirely. Yes, ideally, you want one of the top 3/4 guys. If you can't get them, or you have the 4th guy way behind the 3rd guy, you don't take one at 6. But you still absolutely need to take a swing on a QB in this draft somewhere. If it isn't one of the top guys at the top of the first, it needs to be elsewhere on a lottery ticket. This is the deepest, best QB class in a while. You need to be taking advantage of that, especially as a team with a very questionable QB situation.

Penix probably won't even make it to the late 20s/early 30s, so it is a moot point anyway.

Giants only have 6 draft picks. If we were flush with picks, I could support it, but they are not. To trade up we would need to give up our 2nd and 4th, if not more. If you want to take a swing, trade back from #6 to acquire more picks. It’s a deep QB and WR draft, so that makes sense. If not, draft a QB in rounds 4-7.

[minutemancl]

4 minutes ago, Acgott said:

Giants only have 6 draft picks. If we were flush with picks, I could support it, but they are not. To trade up we would need to give up our 2nd and 4th, if not more. If you want to take a swing, trade back from #6 to acquire more picks. It’s a deep QB and WR draft, so that makes sense. If not, draft a QB in rounds 4-7.

I would take any one of Williams/Maye/Daniels/McCarthy anywhere at the top of the draft. I'd spend a 2nd+ on Penix, Nix. After that, for me, is that gap where I wouldn't use a pick on a QB until round 4. I'd use a 4th on Rattler, then I wouldn't touch another guy until the 6th or later. It's all risk management, and that's where I would draw the line in this draft.

Nix seems to get overlooked a decent amount, mainly because of his age and the offensive system he played in, but he's a good QB. Wouldn't surprise me at all if he ends up working out somewhere. 

[GMENNATION]

34 minutes ago, minutemancl said:

Lots of smoke around JJ McCarthy being preferred over Drake Maye, and the question marks on Jayden Daniels are rearing up again. Honestly, I'm pretty sure there is fire that this smoke is coming from. There are big question marks with both Maye and Daniels on tape (alongside plenty of positives as well). With McCarthy, it's actually easier to sell yourself on him and the flaws he puts on tape because he is very young and the volume just isn't there.

If McCarthy goes somewhere in the top 3, most likely to New England at 3 if they like him better than Maye/Daniels, I really hope the Giants move up to 4 for the one of Daniels/Maye that is available. The question marks exist for both of them (Daniels has a big time hero complex, propensity to run over taking throws to open receivers, doesn't utilize the middle of the field, and is very slight and underweight. Maye also that hero complex and he misses on tape more than other players specifically on NFL caliber throws and on some gimme easy throws), but they are really good prospects overall.

This is probably not a welcome take, but I'm at the point where I think the Giants should move up to 4 regardless right now. I'd take any one of Maye/Daniels/McCarthy at 4. I think they are all worth that pick. Offer 6 and next year's first straight up to the Cardinals and just get it done. 

The earliest I'd be willing to take McCarthy is late 1st round. I just don't see him as someone who elevates his team. And I have concerns about Daniels as well. He's not a polished passer but perhaps can get there with the right coaching. He is worth the risk. I don't think McCarthy is.

[Cuziam71]

Anyone know much about Milton lll from Tennessee.  Give Jones 1 more shot but draft this kid off potential while spending a 5th or 6th rounder.  Seems like he's got some talent.  Let him sit and learn

 

 

[Shockwave]

1 hour ago, Acgott said:

I do not like that idea at all. If they want quarterback, take him high where he has a higher percentage of success. If they want Penix, trade down, not up. Unless it’s for a top 3 QB, we shouldn’t waste resources on a QB.

I agree with @minutemancl. Getting a true #1 WR and a super athletic QB like Penix would be a huge boost for this offense and totally worth the pick equity it would take to make it happen. If Penix didn't have injury concerns he'd be right up at the top with Jayden Daniels and Caleb. His talent level is right there with them. Unfortunately though I don't think he will be there in the late 1st. I don't think he gets by Denver or Minny if an early run on QB's does indeed happen. 

[minutemancl]

1 hour ago, GMENNATION said:

The earliest I'd be willing to take McCarthy is late 1st round. I just don't see him as someone who elevates his team. And I have concerns about Daniels as well. He's not a polished passer but perhaps can get there with the right coaching. He is worth the risk. I don't think McCarthy is.

I mean, his team went undefeated and won the national championship. It's for sure true that he wasn't asked to throw a lot, and that is the biggest knock on him. You have to watch more McCarthy games to get a feel for him than Maye or Daniels. He threw only 8 times against Penn State! But look at 3rd downs, and 3rd down and longs, and how he performed. He regularly came through for Michigan in those situations, better than anyone else in the class. He took really, really good care of the ball as well (Maye's turnovers are another knock on him). There are a lot of traits to like about McCarthy. He's young, athletic, he's got a live arm, he's reportedly very cerebral and a quick processor, he takes care of the ball, and he is consistent. That's enough for me to like him.

1 hour ago, Cuziam71 said:

Anyone know much about Milton lll from Tennessee.  Give Jones 1 more shot but draft this kid off potential while spending a 5th or 6th rounder.  Seems like he's got some talent.  Let him sit and learn

I want to like Milton soooo bad. He's got maybe the most powerful arm I've ever seen. His nickname is "Bazooka Joe", which rules. He can move as well; he's not a Cam Newton/Anthony Richardson level athlete, but he's still very good. He's big as well. His problems as a thrower though are so complex and run so deep that there is little confidence that he'll ever be able to perform at a baseline NFL level. It's really, really bad. Watch his senior bowl snaps to get a pretty quick and neat microcosm of his game. The physical tools are so present, but he's more an athlete than a QB right now. If we don't take a QB in the first 5 rounds and we decide to take him with our last pick in the 6th, fine. Whatever. But you cannot justify taking him earlier than that.

[Acgott]

3 hours ago, Shockwave said:

I agree with @minutemancl. Getting a true #1 WR and a super athletic QB like Penix would be a huge boost for this offense and totally worth the pick equity it would take to make it happen. If Penix didn't have injury concerns he'd be right up at the top with Jayden Daniels and Caleb. His talent level is right there with them. Unfortunately though I don't think he will be there in the late 1st. I don't think he gets by Denver or Minny if an early run on QB's does indeed happen. 

But he does have those injury concerns. He’s a little bit older, somehow playing 4 injury seasons at Indiana before two at Washington. Despite a “fast” pro day 40, he never ran in college. We may have the worst roster in the NFL. Trading up in the late first for one is not a good use of resources.

[GMENNATION]

3 hours ago, minutemancl said:

I mean, his team went undefeated and won the national championship. It's for sure true that he wasn't asked to throw a lot, and that is the biggest knock on him. You have to watch more McCarthy games to get a feel for him than Maye or Daniels. He threw only 8 times against Penn State! But look at 3rd downs, and 3rd down and longs, and how he performed. He regularly came through for Michigan in those situations, better than anyone else in the class. He took really, really good care of the ball as well (Maye's turnovers are another knock on him). There are a lot of traits to like about McCarthy. He's young, athletic, he's got a live arm, he's reportedly very cerebral and a quick processor, he takes care of the ball, and he is consistent. That's enough for me to like him.

I hope you're right since he's our most likely draft pick. And I'm no professional scouts so it's just one average Joe's opinion. I just see more of a Kenny Pickett type prospect. Can succeed if in the right situation but conditions have to be near perfect for that to happen. He doesn't throw a great deep ball. A lot of his tape is 1st-to-2nd read within the progression. Maybe the competitiveness is enough but I just don't feel great about it.