Draft Thread (Giants have picks #6,47,70)

[Acgott]

24 minutes ago, Cuziam71 said:

Giants have way too many holes on the team to trade away a bunch of first and second rounders.  I would trade down and get as many 2nd and 3rdround picks as in can. The Draft is very deep and can fill many holes with starters doing it this way.  These qbs coming out are very overrated and to throw the future away like Carolina did is unexceptable.

Why do you think the QBs are very overrated? Did you feel that way about Eli? What should the Giants do about the QB position? It’s kind of important.

[Cuziam71]

Daniel's has potential but had great wrs at LSU. the pac 12 has no defense whatsoever. Every qb from there Nix, Penix and Williams put up big numbers against bad teams.  Look at USC in bowl game and the new qb put up monster numbers without Williams 

I love Eli since he stepped onto Ole Miss campus. The only thing Eli was missing was a pump fake.

We have Jones for atleast another year.  I like Rattler from South Carolina.  I thing a year of sitting he can be great. 

Giants need a #1 wr, a guard , RT, a pass rusher or 2, another corner, a safety and a DT. 

We fix the line than we can worry about the qb. 

[Acgott]

34 minutes ago, Cuziam71 said:

Daniel's has potential but had great wrs at LSU. the pac 12 has no defense whatsoever. Every qb from there Nix, Penix and Williams put up big numbers against bad teams.  Look at USC in bowl game and the new qb put up monster numbers without Williams 

I love Eli since he stepped onto Ole Miss campus. The only thing Eli was missing was a pump fake.

We have Jones for atleast another year.  I like Rattler from South Carolina.  I thing a year of sitting he can be great. 

Giants need a #1 wr, a guard , RT, a pass rusher or 2, another corner, a safety and a DT. 

We fix the line than we can worry about the qb. 

That is probably the likeliest scenario, though I wouldn’t waste a 2nd or 3rd on Rattler. Hes everyone’s favorite mid round QB from his hype years ago.

The problem is it’s said to be an extremely poor QB draft next year, and the other positions in theory are easier to cover up than the QB. Daboll is also on the hot seat, I don’t think he survives another poor season, but a first round QB could help him if he thinks it improves the team. It’s a lot to bank on Daniel Jones with his neck injuries and coming off the ACL if a potential move is available.

What would be your realistic dream scenario?

[Cuziam71]

My best case would be getting Daniel's with the 6th pick. I like McCarthy but not 6th pick.  Daniel's 6th pick Worthy or Thomas Jr lsu 2nd round and Beebe 2nd. That would be good for me

[Acgott]

23 minutes ago, Cuziam71 said:

My best case would be getting Daniel's with the 6th pick. I like McCarthy but not 6th pick.  Daniel's 6th pick Worthy or Thomas Jr lsu 2nd round and Beebe 2nd. That would be good for me

Daniels is probably going in the top 3, probably #3 and if not, someone will leap us for him. Do you not feel we should go grab him?

If Caleb, Maye, and Daniels aren’t there at 6, are you going receiver there was drafting a QB later?

[Cuziam71]

I would got top wr.  Tradng to 3 is atleast swapping #1s and bare min of 2 2nds and 2 3rds.   That's 4 possible starters we are giving up for potential good maybe great qb. I couldn't do that, not how this team is now.  We aren't 1 or 2 players away, we are 3 alone 2 dline 1 extra pass rusher, a#1 wr, backup rb and health qb away from competing along with coaches that can work together. 

[Acgott]

41 minutes ago, Cuziam71 said:

I would got top wr.  Tradng to 3 is atleast swapping #1s and bare min of 2 2nds and 2 3rds.   That's 4 possible starters we are giving up for potential good maybe great qb. I couldn't do that, not how this team is now.  We aren't 1 or 2 players away, we are 3 alone 2 dline 1 extra pass rusher, a#1 wr, backup rb and health qb away from competing along with coaches that can work together. 

You see it all the time how one QB can drastically change a team. Zero to hero in one year. The Giants made the playoffs one year ago. Why can’t we sign a few players and with the #3 pick bring us back there? If that’s all we need to trade, I’ll do that in seconds. 

[Cuziam71]

Giants made the playoffs because Daniel Jones and Barkley were healthy but more important was the schedule.  I want the playoffs every year not 1 out of every 10 years.  This class is very deep and plenty of talent. That's why I wouldn't throw away 2nd and 3rd round picks.  I would try to collect more to be honest

[Acgott]

29 minutes ago, Cuziam71 said:

Giants made the playoffs because Daniel Jones and Barkley were healthy but more important was the schedule.  I want the playoffs every year not 1 out of every 10 years.  This class is very deep and plenty of talent. That's why I wouldn't throw away 2nd and 3rd round picks.  I would try to collect more to be honest

Say we go that route. What do we do about QB? Risk it with Jones? We finish the season 5-11/6-10. Daboll is fired, Jones gets cut. Here we again. Top 5 pick, we select a QB in a much weaker draft?

and does it change your mind if Drake Maye is available at 3, as opposed to Jayden Daniels

[Cuziam71]

Fun thing is that all these experts say it's a weak class but next year hasn't even started.  If Tommy Divito was able to win games with this team this past year, I'm sure we will find a qb in this draft or the next.  Doesn't have to be a 1sr 2nd or 3rd rounder.  Milton from Tennessee doesn't look like a bad prospect. A year behind Jones might do wonders.  Coaches have to actually coach.  

What happens if we trade up for a qb and give up the farm and we finish 3-14 4-13?  What happens to the HC?  They fire him and the GM and we are back to square 1.  This is the 3rd year of a rebuild. There can't be any more mistakes.

[Acgott]

10 hours ago, Cuziam71 said:

Fun thing is that all these experts say it's a weak class but next year hasn't even started.  If Tommy Divito was able to win games with this team this past year, I'm sure we will find a qb in this draft or the next.  Doesn't have to be a 1sr 2nd or 3rd rounder.  Milton from Tennessee doesn't look like a bad prospect. A year behind Jones might do wonders.  Coaches have to actually coach.  

What happens if we trade up for a qb and give up the farm and we finish 3-14 4-13?  What happens to the HC?  They fire him and the GM and we are back to square 1.  This is the 3rd year of a rebuild. There can't be any more mistakes.

The probability of finding a successful QB is higher this year than next year. Devito had one game with over 200 yards passing. He fell into some of those wins. I think drafting a QB in the first could give Daboll a longer leash if there are signs of promise. You have to take chances to win. You don’t win being conservative.

[Cuziam71]

Getting a qb at 6 is a big gamble but worth it. Not worth trading a ton of 2nd and 3rd rounders and a possible 1st next year. This team has way too many holes to fill.  Giants don't have the luxury to do that. 

[Go_Giants]

On 2/29/2024 at 2:16 PM, Acgott said:

Trade up from 6th for a QB- No brainer. Do what must be done if possible for one of the top 3.

 

On 11/8/2023 at 10:55 PM, Acgott said:

The percentage of success has been extremely small. No top 5 QB trade has worked out since 2004. Not one. It’s not worth the assets. We need them to surround our QB for success. 

 

On 11/8/2023 at 11:40 PM, Go_Giants said:

It is worth the assets, those other teams just picked the wrong QB. If the Jets had taken Josh Allen instead of Sam Darnold their franchise would be relevant again. I trust Shane to make the right call now that he has his people in place. 

 

I am curious about what has evolved your thinking to what I have been saying since November?

[Acgott]

45 minutes ago, Go_Giants said:

I am curious about what has evolved your thinking to what I have been saying since November?

It’s really something that I go back and forth with. It’s such a tough decision and price to pay if it fails. I get caught up in the hype a lot. I hear about these great quarterbacks, the position we are in. The excitement I want to feel again. It’s not a fun situation we are in.

[minutemancl]

Daniels stock is taking a bit of a hit with him not weighing in at the combine. Honestly, it is a legitimate concern, especially after you dive into his tape a little more. He makes absolutely stupid, Josh Allen golden retriever like decisions when running the ball. The problem is that he is a fraction of the size of Josh Allen. We saw another running QB last year, Anthony Richardson (who is built like a goddamn mack truck and is essentially Cam Newton 2.0), get hurt really early in his rookie season because he was taking way too many unnecessary hits. That concern applies to Daniels, but x10. There are rumors that maybe JJ McCarthy has overtaken Daniels for QB3, and honestly, I could see that. There is a lot of projection with McCarthy, but the tools are obviously present. He's bigger than Daniels (to what extent we don't really know, since Daniels didn't measure out, but McCarthy came in at 220 lbs, which is great). He's got legs, can move, has a big arm, and is smart. I'm almost leaning towards McCarthy and Daniels being 3a and 3b as the consensus across NFL teams.

At this point, we can put Caleb at 1 and Maye at 2 in pen to Chicago and Washington respectively. Those are going to happen. After that, we know New England is going to take a QB at 3. I don't buy any of this talk that they would look elsewhere or trade that pick. But it becomes interesting if they take McCarthy or Daniels. While Daniels seemed likely before to be the 3rd QB taken, McCarthy may have jumped him now.

Do the Giants like McCarthy or Daniels enough to trade up to 4 for one of them? Because IMO, that is what it would take. There are a few FA QBs out there that might fill that need for a few teams, but we've got many, many teams looking for QBs this offseason. Not including Chicago, Washington, or New England, the Vikings, Raiders, Falcons, Saints, Giants, Broncos, Steelers, and potentially the Seahawks and Buccaneers are going to be looking for QBs. The free agency class looks to be headlined by Russell Wilson, Kirk Cousins, and potentially Baker Mayfield as the only real guys that would confidently be starters. If 3 of those teams fill their need with those 3 guys, there are still somewhere between 4 and 6 teams that will be looking to grab one of these early QBs. The Giants are not the only team in striking distance; the Falcons have the 8th pick, and the Vikings, Broncos, Raiders, Saints hold picks 11 through 14. If we want even the 4th QB this year, there is a good chance we need to trade up to get him. I'd personally be ok moving up to grab Daniels or McCarthy; I like them both. Obviously, that means I'd also be ok to grab them at 6.

There's also the scenario where QBs go 1-3 (almost guaranteed), the Cardinals love MHJr enough to not want to risk not getting him at stay put at 4 to take him, and then the Chargers at 5 become the big trading post. In that case, we have by far the most attractive trade back option since the Chargers could still get exactly who they want by moving back 1 pick and essentially recouping some draft capital for free. Schoen has shown a willingness to move up just 1 pick before to assure he gets his guy, so this is a real possibility as well.

Of course, this is all just speculations, rumors, and conjecture in a stream of consciousness. There's an equally likely chance to all of this that Giants just like Maye and Williams and aren't sold on McCarthy and Daniels and they'll stay put at 6 to take whichever of the top 3 receivers remaining/one they like best. I love Nabers, and while I'm not the biggest fan of Odunze, I know a lot of highly respected draft guys have him even above Nabers and love him as a prospect, so I'd default to them over myself.

If we take Odunze at 6, I'd honestly want to see Penix at 39. Instant chemistry, and we know Penix can sling it deep. As we saw at the end of last year with Tyrod, Dabs wants to go deep. We even have a Ja'Lynn Polk already on the roster in Hyatt.