General discussion thread.

[hornbybrown]

Great interview and I would definitely take 2-3 years of Brees while we develop one of the top QB’s this year

[buno67]

2 hours ago, freakygeniuskid said:

As I've said, I'm all about spending big money on big time talent that's young enough to still be here when we compete (LOVED the Zeitler deal and the Bitonio/Kirksey/Collins extensions), but I am NOT for blowing long term cap space (Landry isn't coming on a deal without big time guaranteed money in years 2-3) just for the sake of the PR of "we got a WR!" when he DOES NOT FIT what we do on offense. Now if we were moving to a west coast, horizontal passing game, I'd be more interested. But Landry is NOT a good fit for a vertical, downfield shots offense.

2

you say he doesnt fit the offense? What current WRs can work the middle of the field? What WRs is great running the intermediate routes? I could careless about the vertical deep routes when there is no threat of someone underneath. If you have no one capable of playing underneath the deep passes, defenses will just play their safeties Peppers style. Browns got destroyed by guys who could work the middle of the field and intermediate routes because the Browns left so much space there. Duke Johnson isnt going over the middle and making the tough catches. Dude is great out of the back field but he isnt a true slot type WR yet. 

If Dorsey brings in a talent like Landry and hyenris doesnt use him right, that is going to make Dorsey look bad, its just going to get him fired. You know how good of a season Louis could of had if he didnt drop all those passes. All those drops were streaks or huge vertical passing routes. You replace someone like him with the likes of Landry and the offense would be greatly improved. 

[FGK]

11 minutes ago, buno67 said:

Duke Johnson isnt going over the middle and making the tough catches. Dude is great out of the back field but he isnt a true slot type WR yet. 

If Dorsey brings in a talent like Landry and hyenris doesnt use him right, that is going to make Dorsey look bad, its just going to get him fired.

This is just an unreconcialable difference on the value of players. I think Duke is an excellent pass catching RB, yeah, but also a good slot WR who hasn't been given the chance to show it. And Landry, I just think you're looking at the totals instead of how he got there man. There is a reason Miami fans (in general) aren't particularly heart broken about the idea of losing him. He's an okay slot receiver who's going to get paid like a top 15 overall WR because of his raw totals from getting 10+ targets per game.

[buno67]

35 minutes ago, freakygeniuskid said:

This is just an unreconcialable difference on the value of players. I think Duke is an excellent pass catching RB, yeah, but also a good slot WR who hasn't been given the chance to show it. And Landry, I just think you're looking at the totals instead of how he got there man. There is a reason Miami fans (in general) aren't particularly heart broken about the idea of losing him. He's an okay slot receiver who's going to get paid like a top 15 overall WR because of his raw totals from getting 10+ targets per game.

I know how he got there. His role in the offense was being the ideal slot guy. He abused teams working the middle and slant routes. Still the amount of targets and catches he has had over his career and to only have 12 drops is pretty impressive. I think Watkins has had 10 over that same time span and doesnt have nearly as much work as him. Hell Louis this year had 8 a lone for us. 

This site is pretty neat. It shows you the routes/plays ran. White is what they ran for a route and the green is after the catch.

Landry -- https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/charts/player/jarvis-landry/LAN163029/season

Watkins -- https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/charts/player/sammy-watkins/WAT270480/2017

Richardson -- https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/charts/player/paul-richardson/RIC593564/2017

 

GIves you a great idea what their roles are for the teams.

Stills -- https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/charts/player/kenny-stills/STI417540/2017

Parker -- https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/charts/player/devante-parker/PAR226609/2017

You look at Landry, you can see it seems his job is to be a true slot guy and just be the guy who works all over the field and works the middle of the field. Stills and Parker they didnt do anything like that. They were mainly the outside guys. To me they had a lot of success because opposing defenses had to honor the things Landry was doing. Yeah Landry didnt kill it with yards per catch but that wasnt his role. He wasnt the WR who had to rip off huge chunks of yards.

https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/charts/list/all/cleveland-browns/season/week

Here is the Browns, you can get a feel for what some of their WRs are doing. The Browns truly dont have a WR who can work the middle of the field. Def not like what Landry does. Hell it prolly explains why we had such horrible Redzone success. Opposing defenses knew the Browns only ran outside type passing routes and never truly threw over the middle

Maybe he wont be used right by Hue, it just becomes another bullet to be used when it comes to the firing squad.

Miami is going to miss having a WR like Landry, they dont have anyone who did what he did or has the ability to do so

 

[FGK]

The Browns not working the middle of the field doesn't mean they don't have someone who can, it means they don't do it. Could be because of personnel or because of philosophy, and with our pass catching TEs and Duke, I'd lean towards philosophy.

Stills and Parker didn't do that great though. They were okay, but nothing super special. And you could argue just as easily that Landry's successes were based on having two deep threats to pull safeties away. I'm just not excited about paying a WR 14M AAV whose skill set consists of "can catch 5-10 yard dump off passes". Pay him 6-7M AAV? Then I'm in. But I don't want to not be able to sign a real difference maker in 2019 because we're paying Landry double what he's worth. Nextgenstats IS a fun site though.

[buno67]

13 hours ago, freakygeniuskid said:

The Browns not working the middle of the field doesn't mean they don't have someone who can, it means they don't do it. Could be because of personnel or because of philosophy, and with our pass catching TEs and Duke, I'd lean towards philosophy.

Stills and Parker didn't do that great though. They were okay, but nothing super special. And you could argue just as easily that Landry's successes were based on having two deep threats to pull safeties away. I'm just not excited about paying a WR 14M AAV whose skill set consists of "can catch 5-10 yard dump off passes". Pay him 6-7M AAV? Then I'm in. But I don't want to not be able to sign a real difference maker in 2019 because we're paying Landry double what he's worth. Nextgenstats IS a fun site though.

How do you know that is just his skill set. Maybe that was just the philosophy for Miami. They needed someone to be a safety blanket for their below avg QB and someone who could demand the respect from safeties so their deep threats could get open

[bosko1616]

Only WRs id offer 14-15 a mill for is OBJ,Brown,Jones,Green, or Hopkins 

[buno67]

1 hour ago, bosko1616 said:

Only WRs id offer 14-15 a mill for is OBJ,Brown,Jones,Green, or Hopkins 

yeah cause those would be steal of offers. Those guys are going to demand even more.

[buno67]

I really like Landry because I think he could be a great safety blanket for a young QB like Darnold or Rosen. There isnt a WR on this team that I truly trust that no matter what, if you throw his way he is going to catch the ball. Closes one is duke but in reality I want him working out of the backfield. I know he wants to be a slot guy but the minute you set him up in the slot, you have a nickle DB on him. You play him out of the backfield, you got match ups with LBs or safeties.

[bosko1616]

6 minutes ago, buno67 said:

yeah cause those would be steal of offers. Those guys are going to demand even more.

Well ya obviously but there’s no other WRs who I believe can demand that much. Those guys deserve that and more probably. They’re in that tier where they make average QBs look great. Any tier lower I believe those WRs are dependent on QB play and don’t deserve that much. 

[buno67]

2 minutes ago, bosko1616 said:

Well ya obviously but there’s no other WRs who I believe can demand that much. Those guys deserve that and more probably. They’re in that tier where they make average QBs look great. Any tier lower I believe those WRs are dependent on QB play and don’t deserve that much. 

Truly but Landry has looked pretty good when he has had pretty bad QB play. I just wonder what he could look like playing witha QB like Cousins or playing with a extremely talented rookie like Darnold or Rosen. I just think he might be the ideal WR to play off of Njoku, Gordon, and Coleman. I also dont have an issue with him either cause he is young and has been pretty healthy. Browns would be getting his prime years. The money you spend on him, is just going to be money that goes into the 2nd contract for hopefully the QBOTF. If its 3-4years down the road and the Browns have questions with the cap, well I welcome that issue because that means the Browns have too many great players that deserve to be paid. I rather cross that road when we get there instead of playing futuren teller.

[bosko1616]

1 minute ago, buno67 said:

Truly but Landry has looked pretty good when he has had pretty bad QB play. I just wonder what he could look like playing witha QB like Cousins or playing with a extremely talented rookie like Darnold or Rosen. I just think he might be the ideal WR to play off of Njoku, Gordon, and Coleman. I also dont have an issue with him either cause he is young and has been pretty healthy. Browns would be getting his prime years. The money you spend on him, is just going to be money that goes into the 2nd contract for hopefully the QBOTF. If its 3-4years down the road and the Browns have questions with the cap, well I welcome that issue because that means the Browns have too many great players that deserve to be paid. I rather cross that road when we get there instead of playing futuren teller.

I honestly wouldn’t mind Landry But I just don’t think he’s worth that much. He’s a great slot guy 

[buno67]

38 minutes ago, bosko1616 said:

I honestly wouldn’t mind Landry But I just don’t think he’s worth that much. He’s a great slot guy 

To me, the way the Browns have performed and with Hue as the coach. If the Browns want to land a FA, they are going to overpay. Another way to think about it, do you want to overpay for a WR like Landry or overpay for WRs who are below avg or had a good year on their contract year a la Kenny Britt. I rather overpay a guy like Landry because you know he is going to at least produce. 

[Kiwibrown]

3 hours ago, bosko1616 said:

Only WRs id offer 14-15 a mill for is OBJ,Brown,Jones,Green, or Hopkins 

yeah I think those guys are going to get 20 million dollars per season. 

[Thomas5737]

3 hours ago, buno67 said:

To me, the way the Browns have performed and with Hue as the coach. If the Browns want to land a FA, they are going to overpay. Another way to think about it, do you want to overpay for a WR like Landry or overpay for WRs who are below avg or had a good year on their contract year a la Kenny Britt. I rather overpay a guy like Landry because you know he is going to at least produce. 

I like Landry and his playmaking ability but he is a D-B so I wouldn't give him more than market value. On the plus side there was video of his pushing/hitting/False imprisoning his baby mama and he didn't get suspended for it so it would be nice to have a receiver who is above the law. Imagine if they had that evidence against Zeke, he would have gotten a years suspension.