TheeRealDeal Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 If my options are Saquan Barkley or Josh Allen then I am no doubt taking Saquan Barkley. Obviously a franchise QB is going to have more of an impact on your franchise but you have to have some kind of evidence that said QB is going to reach potential. I have seen ZERO evidence that Josh Allen can reach his potential. The Kirk Cousins hate is beyond ridiculous. Obviously my first choice would be to draft Sam Darnold, but if the FO decided to go the Cousins route I would note be the least bit upset about it as it could very easily work just as well. I hear all this talk about QBs who can wins game by themselves and QB who need a team around them to win. Seriously if fans are willing to be honest in the last 20 years there has been maybe 4 QBs who can win games by themselves no matter what kind of team is around them(to an extent obviously). Those 4 QBs would be Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Drew Brees and Aaron Rodgers. Joe Flacco, Cam Newton, Russell Wilson, Kurt Warner, Matt Ryan, Phillip Rivers, Andrew Luck, Carson Palmer, Andy Dalton, Matthew Stafford, Donovan McNabb, Tony Romo and on and on the list goes are all good QBs no doubt, but they all are QB who will for the most part go as far as the team and the team will go as far as they will go. Football is the ultimate team sport and a QB plays a big role in that but I will never believe a franchise QB is every so good they can win in any situation because it has simply never happened. Over 95% of winning QBs are always surrounded by great players and great coaches. Ben Roethlisberger as great as he has been is still an example of only going as far as his team. He has always been surrounded by great weapons from Bettis, Burgess, Holmes and Parker to Brown, Wallace, Miller and Bell. Say what you want about his so called shaky offensive line but most of those sacks are actually on Big Ben and his playing style. His defenses have been very good and the years he has won they have been great. Here are the three years Big Ben has been in a Super Bowl Pittsburgh 2006 W #1 in Rush Attemps #5 in Rush Yards #24 in Pass Offense #3 Ranked Def Pittsburgh 2009 W #9 in Rush Attemps #23 in Rush Yards #20 in Pass Offense #1 Ranked Def Pittsburgh 2011 L #8 in Rush Attemps #11 in Rush Yards #14 in Pass Offense #1 Ranked Def Obviously his team and their ability to run the ball and play great defense played a large role in getting him to the pinnacle. I would even question how great of an impact Tom Brady would have had without Bill Belichek. Love or hate the guy Bill Belichek has proven time and time again he is the greatest coach in the history of the NFL and has unmatched ability to win with all types of players and the ability to adapt schemes to his teams and games plans to opponents. Without the single greatest mastermind the NFL has ever seen does Tom Brady have such an impact in the NFL? Obviously he is great himself and he would still have won a lot of games and rings but I would venture to say his career would be more in line with the Montana and Manning's of the world as apposed to insanely unprecedented career that is still going. Kirk Cousins is good enough to bring a championship to Cleveland if they coaching staff and team around him are good enough and that is no knock because it is the truth behind 98% of all starting caliber QBs in the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistakey Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 22 minutes ago, H2ThaIzzo said: here's whats funny to me. Most posters in the forum don't like Allen and don't like Mayfield. Most think neither is going to be a franchise QB. If we drafted either of them the page would be up in arms. Yet, these are the same people that think some other team is going to give up major assets and picks to move up in the draft high to take one of them. funny how that works Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWil23 Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 21 minutes ago, H2ThaIzzo said: here's whats funny to me. Most posters in the forum don't like Allen and don't like Mayfield. Correct, I despise them both. 21 minutes ago, H2ThaIzzo said: Most think neither is going to be a franchise QB. If we drafted either of them the page would be up in arms. Not everyone, but most. There are a lot of Baker apologists here on this Browns subsection. 21 minutes ago, H2ThaIzzo said: Yet, these are the same people that think some other team is going to give up major assets and picks to move up in the draft high to take one of them. Please, do tell me where I THOUGHT someone would do that. I never did. I said "I'd be down for that", in a hypothetical vacuum with a potential outcome as stated above in the hypothetical situation. But please, don't let me stand in the way of your condescension. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistakey Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 i dont get why people dont like baker outside of his height: played in a big conference has a lot of experience has a ridiculously high level of success v accurate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheeRealDeal Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 1 minute ago, mistakey said: i dont get why people dont like baker outside of his height: played in a big conference has a lot of experience has a ridiculously high level of success v accurate I like everything about him except is douchebaggeriness. He is the clear cut #2 QB in this class IMO. It is honestly a two horse race with Darnold and Mayfield. I don't think the other three should even be considered. They have so many flaws I don't think they ever reach their potential even though their ceilings may be higher. I am on board with Sam Darnold at #1 or Baker Mayfield at #1 or even signing Kirk Cousins. All three are find options and I will support all three. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWil23 Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 4 minutes ago, mistakey said: i dont get why people dont like baker outside of his height: Fair or not, most I would say because of his perception/attitude. JMHO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aztec Hammer Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 57 minutes ago, H2ThaIzzo said: here's whats funny to me. Most posters in the forum don't like Allen and don't like Mayfield. Most think neither is going to be a franchise QB. If we drafted either of them the page would be up in arms. Yet, these are the same people that think some other team is going to give up major assets and picks to move up in the draft high to take one of them. It's really not complicated. I don't like Allen or Mayfield but I assume a dopey GM/HC will fall head over heels for them during the pre-draft process. Trading up and reaching for a QB is a pretty common occurrence in the first round of the NFL draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aztec Hammer Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 37 minutes ago, mistakey said: i dont get why people dont like baker outside of his height: played in a big conference has a lot of experience has a ridiculously high level of success v accurate - His conference is a defensive joke. - He is accurate throwing to uncovered guys. We don't know if he is accurate throwing into tight windows because he does not have to do much of that. - He acts like a tool, time after time. - There is a police video of him trying to run away and getting flying shoulder blocked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistakey Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 6 minutes ago, Aztec Hammer said: - His conference is a defensive joke. - He is accurate throwing to uncovered guys. We don't know if he is accurate throwing into tight windows because he does not have to do much of that. - He acts like a tool, time after time. - There is a police video of him trying to run away and getting flying shoulder blocked. 77.1% 386 YD 3 TD 0 INT against ohio state 65.7% 287 YD 2 TD 1 INT agaisnt georgia big lights this dude produces heres some good tweet threads https://twitter.com/Ryan_McCrystal/status/912365736026189824 decent threads on baker/darnold and rosen seems like rosen if he keeps his head together/had a better attitude would prob be a lock for #1 overall but i doubt hes the pick i really think they like baker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aztec Hammer Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 I don't hate Baker but I'm not sold. The Georgia game was a big deal to me. It really opened my eyes to his strengths and weaknesses. When the second half came around and they put the clamps on the gadget stuff and trickery, I think you got to see exactly where Baker is going to have problems in the NFL. He couldn't deal with the rush, his eyes dropped and he immediately bailed into more pressure. Also threw a pick under pressure and was struggling to hit the pressure throws into tight windows. In fairness to him, you also got to see where he might be able to do well in the pros, with that late TD pass. Was trademark Russell Wilson. I would agree that Rosen with a clean personality might be the number one guy. I've long maintained the belief that he is a pure passer of high quality, just with some decision making issues under pressure and a sense for pressure that is being overrated right now. I do think that his injury issues are a big deal. Concussions and multiple bad shoulder problems. As much as I love him as a pure prospect, I'm not sure Cleveland is the fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruceb Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 8 hours ago, Aztec Hammer said: Take Darnold at #1. Assume the Giants take Rosen at #2. See what the Colts do at #3. If they take Barkley, send that #4 pick to a desperate team that wants Allen or Mayfield ahead of the Broncos. If the Colts don't take Barkley, I'd be inclined to draft him at #4, and not worry about subjective opinions on positional value. I would simply see it as giving Sam Darnold the single best player in the draft to be his backfield partner for the next decade. #1 - Sam Darnold, QB, USC #4 - Saquon Barkley, RB, Penn State or #1 - Sam Darnold, QB, USC #4 - A ton of high picks from trading Either one is absolutely fine by me. It seems this simple to me, although I would prefer the "or". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buno67 Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 On 1/25/2018 at 11:51 AM, TheeRealDeal said: I like everything about him except is douchebaggeriness. He is the clear cut #2 QB in this class IMO. It is honestly a two horse race with Darnold and Mayfield. I don't think the other three should even be considered. They have so many flaws I don't think they ever reach their potential even though their ceilings may be higher. I am on board with Sam Darnold at #1 or Baker Mayfield at #1 or even signing Kirk Cousins. All three are find options and I will support all three. Rosen def deserves to me in consideration. He is easily the #2 QB for me. Its Darnold, Rosen, and then Baker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FGK Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 34 minutes ago, buno67 said: Rosen def deserves to me in consideration. He is easily the #2 QB for me. Its Darnold, Rosen, and then Baker It's the other way around for me, Mayfield-Rosen-Darnold, but I definitely agree that all three should be in the conversation. (Jackson too, though he'd be fighting Darnold for the bottom spot on my personal totem pole). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buno67 Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 6 hours ago, freakygeniuskid said: It's the other way around for me, Mayfield-Rosen-Darnold, but I definitely agree that all three should be in the conversation. (Jackson too, though he'd be fighting Darnold for the bottom spot on my personal totem pole). See I like those 3 enough that I would love to take Barkley at one and take which QB falls to 4. To me that is allowing other teams to dictate what you are doing, specially with QB. I just want the Browns to get the QB they want and who they think is the best. No more settling! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruceb Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 6 hours ago, freakygeniuskid said: It's the other way around for me, Mayfield-Rosen-Darnold, but I definitely agree that all three should be in the conversation. (Jackson too, though he'd be fighting Darnold for the bottom spot on my personal totem pole). Seriously? Rosen should be your #3 on the basis of injury concerns alone. And Mayfield has been at this a lot longer than Darnold. Are you choosing Mayfield almost at his ceiling vs. Darnold's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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