AKRNA Posted November 20, 2023 Share Posted November 20, 2023 36 minutes ago, vike daddy said: and some select plays on our part lost it. the INT we should have had that instead resulted in 3 points for you... your fumble late in the game we didn't recover... heck, how about our fumble early in the game where there was a helmet to chin hit...? but a win's a win, and many of ours have been on the flukey side too. Whats funny it that this is our 3rd such win in a row. Maybe not so flukey? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broncosfan_101 Posted November 20, 2023 Share Posted November 20, 2023 14 minutes ago, AKRNA said: Whats funny it that this is our 3rd such win in a row. Maybe not so flukey? The Vikes went 11-0 in one-score games last year, they know as well as anyone that fluky can last a long, long time. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broncosfan_101 Posted November 20, 2023 Share Posted November 20, 2023 Anyone wanna question the logic in trading a 1st for a head coach now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lomaxgrUK Posted November 20, 2023 Share Posted November 20, 2023 Man, another crazy game .... Hard to build on what so many of you have said - this is not going to be a formula for long term success but it's fun to win. A really bad Russ game if we are honest. Is he hurt? If not, why was he not rushing at all? I couldn't see if they were spying him, but it didn't feel like they were. This team sorely misses a seam threat. It feels like everything we do is outside of the numbers, although some of that I think can be attributed to Russ' lack of height. Speaking of which, Sean addressed Russ vs inside blitz last week, where he said that his inclination to run around the blitz rather than throwing over the top of it and that hurts us so often. The one time he did throw over it was the Jeudy drop in the endzone (I didn't get a replay of this). A lot of complaining by me in a W there. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broncos67 Posted November 20, 2023 Author Share Posted November 20, 2023 Ugly game, but it's nice to finally win some of these after losing so many the last few years. I'll subscribe to the idea that we need to learn how to win ugly before we can win comfortably. I think .500 is exactly where this team should be and represents about how good I think we are. But, we're beating good teams with winning records in tough games. I admit, I didn't see that coming earlier this season. Defensively, thought we had a decent game, but the run defense is just bad. We absolutely need more reinforcements there this offseason. Moreau and McMillian have been incredible in place of Mathis. McMillian especially, who I think has basically carved out that nickel CB role for himself going forward. Jackson is 100% getting suspended for that hit on Dobbs. I'd be shocked if he didn't. Thought the tackling was subpar yesterday so I hope that gets cleaned up. Offensively...yuck. Run the ball more. A lot of stalling once we get into FG range. I didn't think Russ had a particularly great game, but he came up big when it counts. This team so desperately needs more speed offensively. Sutton has become stellar in the red zone. Jeudy was meh, especially the dropped TD. Russ can give us the experience needed to win some of these tight games, but he's just not as dynamic as he once was. But, a win is a win, and like I said, I will not complain after losing so many of these games the last few years. On to Cleveland! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lomaxgrUK Posted November 20, 2023 Share Posted November 20, 2023 That Jerry Jeudy pump fake was one of the funniest things I've ever seen on a Football field. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broncos67 Posted November 20, 2023 Author Share Posted November 20, 2023 7 hours ago, broncosfan_101 said: Anyone wanna question the logic in trading a 1st for a head coach now? I still do, yes. I think it's a double edged sword. We don't necessarily win these games without Payton (though some of his situational awareness and playcalling has been less than great), but the real test comes over time. My bigger issue is we're so bereft of talent right now, giving up a 1st last year/2nd this year is just a lot for a coach. If it leads to sustained success, it was the right move, but I'm still in wait and see mode. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted November 20, 2023 Share Posted November 20, 2023 37 minutes ago, broncos67 said: I still do, yes. I think it's a double edged sword. We don't necessarily win these games without Payton (though some of his situational awareness and playcalling has been less than great), but the real test comes over time. My bigger issue is we're so bereft of talent right now, giving up a 1st last year/2nd this year is just a lot for a coach. If it leads to sustained success, it was the right move, but I'm still in wait and see mode. If Payton stays for the long run and is our HC long enough to leverage a more talented team (we're still 1-2 years away from having that more complete roster even if we draft well), then it's likely worth it. If he's gone after 3-4 years and we are stuck in this cycle of mediocrity, then nope, not worth it. It is pretty telling though how much of a diff he's making over Hackett (duh on Hackett, but the degree of positive impact is still really high). Again, another week where Russ' limitations are obvious to see, but Payton makes it work for a functional 21 pt output. A game we def should have lost, save for the +3 in TO differential (but that was also the vulnerability Josh Dobbs brought to the game). The O just has no real juice, we're relying on Courtland Sutton winning less than 50-50 balls (BUF was a miracle play lol, last night was more the true 50-50 ball) for TD's, and our run D and pass coverage vs. RB & TE is just so easy to exploit. Yet the TO's our D is getting and the O avoiding it is doing just enough - that's how much of an impact the TO game is. What's heartening to me on the D is that we clearly have the secondary except CB2 locked up for 2024+ - Jaquon McMillian is that guy. He's not just a good player, he's becoming a clear top 5-10 slot CB who's also a ballhawk (and isn't afraid to get his nose dirty in run support, even being undersized). PJ Locke (& hopefully Caden Sterns) will be a massive upgrade on Kareem Jackson (who we should expect a suspension for again, that 1st TO clearly should have been a penalty and frankly an ejection). We just need so much DL help & at least 1 ILB upgrade to stop the run (and help Baron Browning & Nik Bonnito in pass rush). But we're making huge strides from the MIA/WAS/CHI days on D it's encouraging. On O we can use the TE upgrade, but it's about getting away from Russell Wilson. The thing is, even though W's aren't a QB stat, if you aren't paying enough attention to game film, Russell Wilson's #'s and the highlights with his improvisation (can't escape, but he's better at finding the RB with pressure), could convince QB-desperate teams to bite this offseason. Again, the $ relief and a Day 2 pick is fine with me. The worst thing that could happen to us long-term is that we win 9+ games and somehow ppl think Russell should stay. So don't mistake me when I say the win is nice, but long-term I hope Russ plays well enough to be tradeable, but we dont' do well enough that ppl think he should stay for 2024+. I'm far more interested in this org turning the page and staying in mediocrity with Russ - sadly the Drake Maye dream died last week, but it still shouldn't change the view that Russ is not our 2024+ answer (esp since committing to him guarantees his 37M salary in 2025, too). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broncosfan_101 Posted November 20, 2023 Share Posted November 20, 2023 3 hours ago, broncos67 said: I still do, yes. I think it's a double edged sword. We don't necessarily win these games without Payton (though some of his situational awareness and playcalling has been less than great), but the real test comes over time. My bigger issue is we're so bereft of talent right now, giving up a 1st last year/2nd this year is just a lot for a coach. If it leads to sustained success, it was the right move, but I'm still in wait and see mode. Sorry, I could’ve worded this more specifically. I was referring more to the general theory of, ‘lol who trades a pick for a coach??’ rather than our specific situation. For us, sure, the talent level (especially at QB) might not be at the level where a coach can turn us into a contender in the next year or two. However, I remember vividly the feeling after McDaniels left and we hired John Fox. Just about everyone knew that John Fox was not going to be the head coach of the next Broncos Super Bowl team (although wow he got close), but it was so important to put an adult in charge right away, to raise the professional standards throughout the building after immaturity and buffoonishness had reigned supreme. The 2015 Denver Broncos don’t win the Super Bowl without the contributions of John Fox. Anyways, my point was, ask a team like the LA Chargers (or the Bears, Raiders, Panthers, Falcons, etc.): who’s more likely to make you a Super Bowl threat in 2024, Quentin Johnston or Sean Payton? I think they would absolutely trade a 1st rounder for Sean Payton this winter. A top notch HC makes an incredible difference. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broncos67 Posted November 20, 2023 Author Share Posted November 20, 2023 2 hours ago, broncosfan_101 said: Sorry, I could’ve worded this more specifically. I was referring more to the general theory of, ‘lol who trades a pick for a coach??’ rather than our specific situation. For us, sure, the talent level (especially at QB) might not be at the level where a coach can turn us into a contender in the next year or two. However, I remember vividly the feeling after McDaniels left and we hired John Fox. Just about everyone knew that John Fox was not going to be the head coach of the next Broncos Super Bowl team (although wow he got close), but it was so important to put an adult in charge right away, to raise the professional standards throughout the building after immaturity and buffoonishness had reigned supreme. The 2015 Denver Broncos don’t win the Super Bowl without the contributions of John Fox. Anyways, my point was, ask a team like the LA Chargers (or the Bears, Raiders, Panthers, Falcons, etc.): who’s more likely to make you a Super Bowl threat in 2024, Quentin Johnston or Sean Payton? I think they would absolutely trade a 1st rounder for Sean Payton this winter. A top notch HC makes an incredible difference. I mean yeah, I don't disagree to an extent, but I also look at what Houston has done organizationally and can't help but wish we had a similar situation long-term. They committed to the tank, got the picks, and look to have the next superstar in this league and a fun young coach the players love. There were coaches out there ripe for the taking who wouldn't have cost the picks. It's a moot point now, but for me it's more a commentary on how bad the Broncos evaluation process had been and how, frankly, it feels they lost faith in the ability to identify a prospective coach that they threw money and picks at the problem. Maybe this is all for naught because Payton turns the Broncos into perennial contenders again, but I can't help but think as a franchise the Broncos weren't *quite* at the point where giving up more picks was wise. If the Russ trade never happened, I think it's a different discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKRNA Posted November 20, 2023 Share Posted November 20, 2023 14 hours ago, lomaxgrUK said: This team sorely misses a seam threat. It feels like everything we do is outside of the numbers, although some of that I think can be attributed to Russ' lack of height. Speaking of which, Sean addressed Russ vs inside blitz last week, where he said that his inclination to run around the blitz rather than throwing over the top of it and that hurts us so often. The one time he did throw over it was the Jeudy drop in the endzone (I didn't get a replay of this). A lot of complaining by me in a W there. Good points! The entire offense revolves around a continuous vertical threat. Basically almost every play has one. Russ just can't take advantage, be it height, vision, habit,.................. whatever. Blitzing or loading the box to stop the run should have a heavy price. No DC's care if Russ scrambles around a bit and gains a few yards. They would care if he were torching them for huge gains but he's not. Until that happens we should expect to see more of the same. Cleveland could be a real eye opener. I'd expect a "run the ball/stop the run" contest. I doubt we'll do well in that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vike daddy Posted November 21, 2023 Share Posted November 21, 2023 Denver Broncos safety Kareem Jackson has been suspended again, this time for four games, for repeated violations of the player safety rules, the NFL announced Monday (via NFL Media). The play in question was Jackson's hit on Minnesota Vikings quarterback Josh Dobbs in the first quarter of "Sunday Night Football." This marks Jackson's second suspension this season. The 35-year-old is appealing the suspension, according to ESPN. He also appealed his last four-game suspension, which resulted in it being cut in half. https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/broncos-kareem-jackson-suspended-for-four-more-games-for-his-hit-on-vikings-joshua-dobbs-on-sunday-night/ result of the play was a turnover and one of your field goals. take 3 points off your score and it's a loss. grrr.... just sour grapes now, but dang it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKRNA Posted November 21, 2023 Share Posted November 21, 2023 22 minutes ago, vike daddy said: Denver Broncos safety Kareem Jackson has been suspended again, this time for four games, for repeated violations of the player safety rules, the NFL announced Monday (via NFL Media). The play in question was Jackson's hit on Minnesota Vikings quarterback Josh Dobbs in the first quarter of "Sunday Night Football." This marks Jackson's second suspension this season. The 35-year-old is appealing the suspension, according to ESPN. He also appealed his last four-game suspension, which resulted in it being cut in half. https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/broncos-kareem-jackson-suspended-for-four-more-games-for-his-hit-on-vikings-joshua-dobbs-on-sunday-night/ result of the play was a turnover and one of your field goals. take 3 points off your score and it's a loss. grrr.... just sour grapes now, but dang it! I know how you feel but that game just goes into the list of thousands of games that have been affected by bad/no calls. Probably a game changer but we'll never know. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vike daddy Posted November 21, 2023 Share Posted November 21, 2023 (edited) 11 minutes ago, AKRNA said: I know how you feel but that game just goes into the list of thousands of games that have been affected by bad/no calls. Probably a game changer but we'll never know. yeah... do remember though from a Viking fan's perspective, Payton coached teams with overly aggressive defensive hits that don't get flagged on the field don't sit well.... lol Edited November 21, 2023 by vike daddy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jolly red giant Posted November 21, 2023 Share Posted November 21, 2023 6 hours ago, vike daddy said: yeah... do remember though from a Viking fan's perspective, Payton coached teams with overly aggressive defensive hits that don't get flagged on the field don't sit well.... lol And it was the one thing that I had a problem with when Payton was hired. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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