Lukas Van Ness is a Bust.

[PACKRULE]

Some great info here, LVN has the size and skills to play the position. But he's raw much like Gary and Gary had more twitch. LVN just needs to get in the weight room a bit still add a few pounds of mass to him get stronger and then stop thinking. You can tell he's going through his list on most every play he's slow and it's for that reason. once he see's things fater in year 2 and 3 he'll be fine. Can't teach that size and speed. 

[ThatJerkDave]

7 hours ago, Mdpackfan22 said:

Anyone notice how Gary and LVN are never on the field at the same time? It's always P Smith/Gary and LVN/Kingsley. I'd like to see LVN get some run with Gary

One thing that Barry has done the last couple of years, that I like, is his platoon of edge players.  It is almost like a line change in hockey.  He, in large part, keeps two guys teamed together.  In theory, they should know what their partner is doing and that should also keep them fresh all game.

[coachbuns]

1 hour ago, ThatJerkDave said:

One thing that Barry has done the last couple of years, that I like, is his platoon of edge players.  It is almost like a line change in hockey.  He, in large part, keeps two guys teamed together.  In theory, they should know what their partner is doing and that should also keep them fresh all game.

That's all well and good but where is the stunting/blitzing/rushing 5-6 guys.  Rushing just 4 guys 95% of the time isn't getting it done .. see the past 2 games.  Giants qb was sacked 7 times yesterday, 0 against us. It's nice to keep them all fresh but those 4 rushers often times can't get it done.

[ThatJerkDave]

5 hours ago, coachbuns said:

That's all well and good but where is the stunting/blitzing/rushing 5-6 guys.  Rushing just 4 guys 95% of the time isn't getting it done .. see the past 2 games.  Giants qb was sacked 7 times yesterday, 0 against us. It's nice to keep them all fresh but those 4 rushers often times can't get it done.

I'm not here to carry water for Barry.  I just like the way he has rotated his edge guys.  

[Arthur Penske]

There are snap count differences I think but:

 

[craig]

17 hours ago, coachbuns said:

That's all well and good but where is the stunting/blitzing/rushing 5-6 guys.  Rushing just 4 guys 95% of the time isn't getting it done .. see the past 2 games.  Giants qb was sacked 7 times yesterday, 0 against us. It's nice to keep them all fresh but those 4 rushers often times can't get it done.

The lack of sacks and pressure has really been a problem.  When 4-man isn't getting it done, it kinda necessitates doing something else.  

With two 1st-round linemen that we think are good (Clark was highest-paid NT in NFL history at time of extension) and two 1st-round OLB, one considered good enough for a $96 extension, the lack of sacks and effective pressure has been really disappointing.  Hypothetically, you invest so much in your front guys, you'd like for them to win sometimes on their own merits, with 4-man rush.  But that obviously isn't happening. 

Obviously blitz and doing some things different comes with some risk.  Going blitz-crazy has sure done wonders for Vikings defense this season.  

[hitnhope]

It's tough to get sacks when the QB always has a wide open outlet readily available because we don't deem it worthy of coverage.   Even with that the Packers had 5 sacks last week.   Problem was we gave the yardage right back on the next down because we didn't cover anybody all game.

[coachbuns]

5 hours ago, hitnhope said:

It's tough to get sacks when the QB always has a wide open outlet readily available because we don't deem it worthy of coverage.   Even with that the Packers had 5 sacks last week.   Problem was we gave the yardage right back on the next down because we didn't cover anybody all game.

Packers did not make TB's QB move and make his life hell.  Sure they got 5 sacks but what did they do every frickin time after a sack ... rush 4 and make it easy for them to complete another 20 yard pass down field for a 1st down or even worse, a touchdown.  News flash .. when you have them in a hole, put more frickin pressure on them.  Make him dump the ball off on a check down before he gets smashed.  Good gosh, it's been going on for 2 years now and Barry just doesn't get it.   

[Brat&Beer]

8 hours ago, Arthur Penske said:

There are snap count differences I think but:

 

Van Ness in 14 games has about 70 more snaps than Gary had in 16. But I saw a graphic earlier this year that showed a lot of Van Ness's snap counts did not include pass rush opportunities. Don't know if that was the case with Gary.

[skibrett15]

How the heck is Van Ness not playing 50+ snaps per game.

Giving snaps to preston smith is coaching malpractice at this point.  Gute needs to walk down to the coach meetings and demand his first round pick play more.

It's not like when he's on the field he's playing poorly!

 

Give him literally all of Enegbare's snaps that he's not already sharing the field with him.  That guy is a JAG through and through.

[OneTwoSixFive]

On 12/19/2023 at 6:25 PM, craig said:

The lack of sacks and pressure has really been a problem.  When 4-man isn't getting it done, it kinda necessitates doing something else.  

With two 1st-round linemen that we think are good (Clark was highest-paid NT in NFL history at time of extension) and two 1st-round OLB, one considered good enough for a $96 extension, the lack of sacks and effective pressure has been really disappointing.  Hypothetically, you invest so much in your front guys, you'd like for them to win sometimes on their own merits, with 4-man rush.  But that obviously isn't happening. 

Obviously blitz and doing some things different comes with some risk.  Going blitz-crazy has sure done wonders for Vikings defense this season.  

44% of Defensive plays were blitzes. It is not that Barry doesn't call blitzes enough, it's that the DBs and the blitzers are not working together. That's is scheme, or the execution of that scheme. I think Barry's problem is
1) play design (also the exact positioning of players on a blitz play). There are disconnects between what the blitzers are doing and what the coverage guys are doing.
2) play calling
3) buy in. If you are not getting buy in from the players the greatest scheme and finest playcalling will not work half as well as when they are.

Edited December 28, 2023 by OneTwoSixFive

[vegas492]

13 minutes ago, OneTwoSixFive said:

44% of Defensive plays were blitzes. It is not that Barry doesn't call blitzes enough, it's that the DBs and the blitzers are not working together. That's is scheme, or the execution of that scheme. I think Barry's problem is
1) play design (also the exact positioning of players on a blitz play). There are disconnects between what the blitzers are doing and what the coverage guys are doing.
2) play calling
3) buy in. If you are not getting buy in from the players the greatest scheme and finest playcalling will not work half as well as when they are.

That number, 44%, was that for this part game or for the season?

I only got to see the first half, but it looked to me like we were blitzing more, sometimes even bringing a run blitz.  We also seemed to have a true 4 man line to help protect against the run more.

And I instantly thought that these changes were a direct result of MLF being more involved with the defense.  I didn't feel like any of that would be what Joe Barry wanted to do, rather it was his boss telling him what to do.

But I could easily be wrong about that.  But those sets and what we did just doesn't match much of what we've done this year on defense.

[ThatJerkDave]

On 12/19/2023 at 8:30 PM, Brat&Beer said:

Van Ness in 14 games has about 70 more snaps than Gary had in 16. But I saw a graphic earlier this year that showed a lot of Van Ness's snap counts did not include pass rush opportunities. Don't know if that was the case with Gary.

I have some time to look at the distribution of snaps today (don't really know how to determine what percentage are pass rush or not).  Van Ness is playing in a lot higher percentage of snaps than Gary did as a rookie.  Gary's largest total was 26 snaps for 36% of defensive snaps.  Van Ness' largest total, so far [thru week 16], has been 37 snaps for 49%.  He has 3 games more than 26 snaps, and 3 games of exactly 26 snaps.  Barry has put Van Ness on the field more than Pettine did with Gary.  Barry rotates his rushers a lot more than Pettine, both Smiths had (rough estimate) upper 80s% of snaps that season, and Gary also had to contend with Fackrell getting a lot of snaps.  

 

Van Ness seems to be on a similar trajectory to Gary.  We will have to wait to see how he develops.  And that will also probably depend on whomever the new defensive staff is, and how they deploy their players.  As I said a couple of weeks ago, I do like how Barry rotates these guys, and I really like the four primary rushers that we have right now.  To this point in time, I don't think Van Ness is a bust.  But he is also not an impact rookie either.  

[OneTwoSixFive]

56 minutes ago, vegas492 said:

That number, 44%, was that for this part game or for the season?

Just the game against Carolina

[ReasonablySober]

However PFF defines Pash Rush snaps vs Run Defense Snaps, here are the totals from both rookie years. 

Gary (18 games)
PRSH: 152 (59.5 grade)
RDEF: 99 (66.0 grade)

LVN (15 games)
PRSH: 162 (58.4 grade)
RDEF: 167 (65.4 grade)