iknowcool Posted December 24, 2023 Share Posted December 24, 2023 18 minutes ago, J-ALL-DAY said: Not like the Cowboys have fared all that much better against the threw best teams they have faced either. They smashed the Rams and the Eagles a 2nd time around. Who have the Dolphins beaten that would be at the Rams level? Or even the Seahawks? Sure, you can only deal with the cards you are dealt with. But the Dolphins offense just hasn't proven they can get it done against a high-level opponent yet. Maybe that changes today. But I've got more faith in the Cowboys than the Dolphins. I know the loss to the Bills last week wasn't great... but it isn't like the Dolphins fared any better when they played Buffalo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nabbs4u Posted December 24, 2023 Share Posted December 24, 2023 (edited) 43 minutes ago, iknowcool said: They smashed the Rams and the Eagles a 2nd time around. Who have the Dolphins beaten that would be at the Rams level? Or even the Seahawks? Sure, you can only deal with the cards you are dealt with. But the Dolphins offense just hasn't proven they can get it done against a high-level opponent yet. Maybe that changes today. But I've got more faith in the Cowboys than the Dolphins. I know the loss to the Bills last week wasn't great... but it isn't like the Dolphins fared any better when they played Buffalo. This is all well and good but all 3 losses for both clubs vs those teams came "on the road". Both clubs are different teams when playing "at home". Just go look at thier Home and Away splits! So 1 of these 2 two teams will be changing the norm today of the 2023 NFL script they were given. Guess we'll see? 🤷♂️ Edited December 24, 2023 by Nabbs4u Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoboRocket Posted December 25, 2023 Share Posted December 25, 2023 9 hours ago, J-ALL-DAY said: I'm starting Fields over Jackson now. You better be right sir! QB4! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TVScout Posted December 25, 2023 Share Posted December 25, 2023 How often does this not get called? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louis Friend Posted December 25, 2023 Share Posted December 25, 2023 20 minutes ago, TVScout said: How often does this not get called? Every week for Hutch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted December 25, 2023 Share Posted December 25, 2023 1 hour ago, TVScout said: How often does this not get called? Truthfully? Probably a crap ton. Especially against good pass rushers. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKillerNacho Posted December 25, 2023 Share Posted December 25, 2023 1 hour ago, TVScout said: How often does this not get called? more often than Roughing the Passer gets called on a player being dragged down by his helmet by the QB 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
typecast Posted December 25, 2023 Share Posted December 25, 2023 3 hours ago, TheKillerNacho said: more often than Roughing the Passer gets called on a player being dragged down by his helmet by the QB He wasn't being dragged down by his helmet. Dak was lifted and already going backwards. He was on for a ride toward the ground. Regardless, both RTPs in that game were textbook cases. ROUGHING THE PASSER Because the act of passing often puts the quarterback (or any other player attempting a pass) in a position where he is particularly vulnerable to injury, special rules against roughing the passer apply. The Referee has principal responsibility for enforcing these rules. Any physical acts against a player who is in a passing posture (i.e. before, during, or after a pass) which, in the Referee’s judgment, are unwarranted by the circumstances of the play will be called as fouls. The Referee will be guided by the following principles: (a) Roughing will be called if, in the Referee’s judgment, a pass rusher clearly should have known that the ball had already left the passer’s hand before contact was made; pass rushers are responsible for being aware of the position of the ball in passing situations; the Referee will use the release of the ball from the passer’s hand as his guideline that the passer is now fully protected; once a pass has been released by a passer, a rushing defender may make direct contact with the passer only up through the rusher’s first step after such release (prior to second step hitting the ground); thereafter the rusher must be making an attempt to avoid contact and must not continue to “drive through” or otherwise forcibly contact the passer; incidental or inadvertent contact by a player who is easing up or being blocked into the passer will not be considered significant. (b) A rushing defender is prohibited from committing such intimidating and punishing acts as “stuffing” a passer into the ground or unnecessarily wrestling or driving him down after the passer has thrown the ball, even if the rusher makes his initial contact with the passer within the one-step limitation provided for in (a) above. When tackling a passer who is in a defenseless posture (e.g., during or just after throwing a pass), a defensive player must not unnecessarily or violently throw him down or land on top of him with all or most of the defender’s weight. Instead, the defensive player must strive to wrap up the passer with the defensive player’s arms and not land on the passer with all or most of his body weight. (c) In covering the passer position, Referees will be particularly alert to fouls in which defenders impermissibly use the helmet and/or facemask to hit the passer, or use hands, arms, or other parts of the body to hit the passer forcibly in the head or neck area (see also the other unnecessary roughness rules covering these subjects). A defensive player must not use his helmet against a passer who is in a defenseless posture—for example, (1) forcibly hitting the passer’s head or neck area with the helmet or facemask, even if the initial contact of the defender’s helmet or facemask is lower than the passer’s neck, and regardless of whether the defensive player also uses his arms to tackle the passer by encircling or grasping him; or (2) lowering the head and making forcible contact with any part of the helmet against any part of the passer’s body. This rule does not prohibit incidental contact by the mask or non-crown parts of the helmet in the course of a conventional tackle on a passer. (d) A rushing defender is prohibited from forcibly hitting in the knee area or below a passer who has one or both feet on the ground, even if the initial contact is above the knee. It is not a foul if the defender is blocked (or fouled) into the passer and has no opportunity to avoid him. Notes A defender cannot initiate a roll or lunge and forcibly hit the passer in the knee area or below, even if he is being contacted by another player. It is not a foul if the defender swipes or grabs a passer in the knee area or below in an attempt to tackle him, provided he does not make forcible contact with the helmet, shoulder, chest, or forearm. (e) A passer who is standing still or fading backward after the ball has left his hand is obviously out of the play and must not be unnecessarily contacted by an opponent through the end of the down or until the passer becomes a blocker, or a runner, or, in the event of a change of possession during the down, until he assumes a distinctly defensive position. However, at any time after the change of possession, it is a foul if: an opponent forcibly hits the quarterback’s head or neck area with his helmet, facemask, forearm, or shoulder if an opponent lowers his head and makes forcible contact with any part of his helmet against any part of the passer’s body. This provision does not prohibit incidental contact by the mask or the helmet in the course of a conventional block. (f) When the passer goes outside the pocket area and either continues moving with the ball (without attempting to advance the ball as a runner) or throws while on the run, he loses the protection of the one-step rule provided for in (a) above, and the protection against a low hit provided for in (e) above, but he remains covered by all the other special protections afforded to a passer in the pocket (b, c, d, and f), as well as the regular unnecessary roughness rules applicable to all player positions. If the passer stops behind the line and clearly establishes a passing posture, he will then be covered by all of the special protections for passers. (g) The Referee must blow the play dead as soon as the passer is clearly in the grasp and control of any tackler behind the line, and the passer’s safety is in jeopardy. Note: A player who initiates contact against a passer is responsible for avoiding an illegal act. This includes illegal contact that may occur during the process of attempting to dislodge the ball. A standard of strict liability applies for any contact against a passer, irrespective of any acts by the passer, such as ducking his head or curling up his body in anticipation of contact. Penalty: For Roughing the Passer: Loss of 15 yards and an automatic first down; disqualification if flagrant. Notes When in doubt about a roughness call or potentially dangerous tactic against the quarterback, the Referee should always call roughing the passer. See 8-6-1-c–d for personal fouls prior to completion or interception. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
typecast Posted December 25, 2023 Share Posted December 25, 2023 (edited) Parsons to the press in the locker room post-game Reporter: You hit Tua in the back. What did the ref say to you on that call? Parsons: He said... I mean... anybody who was watching... I mean... I won so quick, like, how am I supposed to know he got the ball out? It's within a second. I didn't leave my feet. I didn't lead with my head. So I don't know what a "roughing the passer" is anymore. He said I could have done something in some manner to avoid him. But in reality, I ran into D-Law. Like, we both met at the quarterback. I mean, like I said, it's just hard to play defense. Reporter: Aren't you supposed to have a step in those instances? Parsons: Yea. He said my intent was to punish the quarterback but how am I trying to punish the quarterback if I'm just trying to sack him? I mean, it's not like it's a late hit. It's not like I'm leaving my feet. I didn't lead with my head. I don't know how you make the call. I don't see no justification. He said I just tried to punish him. I haven't gotten a roughing the passer all year. What do I have against Tua to even try and hurt Tua or anything? I'm just trying to get a sack. RTP is clearly defined. It's his responsibility to avoid the illegal act. He had a clear, unobstructed view of the ball. He doesn't pull his arms in to deliver the shot at Tua's back until after ball is gone. He clearly went to deliver a big hit instead of going for a sack. Edited December 25, 2023 by typecast Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKillerNacho Posted December 25, 2023 Share Posted December 25, 2023 1 hour ago, typecast said: He wasn't being dragged down by his helmet. Dak was lifted and already going backwards. He was on for a ride toward the ground. Regardless, both RTPs in that game were textbook cases. He was absolutely not being lifted (although he was going backwards as part of a routine tackle attempt) and clearly dragged Wilkins down by the back of his helmet while he was falling, preventing Wilkins from being able to prevent falling on him. What play were you watching? lmao Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
typecast Posted December 25, 2023 Share Posted December 25, 2023 (edited) 4 minutes ago, TheKillerNacho said: He was absolutely not being lifted and clearly dragged Wilkins down by the back of his helmet while he was falling. What play were you watching? lmao Look at the clip I linked. Watch Wilkins knees and Dak's feet. He clearly lifts hims. The clip has two angles. The 2nd angle shows Dak's arm extended after the throw. It's not until he's going down does he grab Wilkins helm. Grabbing **** as we fall is typical human behavior. Edited December 25, 2023 by typecast Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKillerNacho Posted December 25, 2023 Share Posted December 25, 2023 1 minute ago, typecast said: Look at the clip I linked. Watch Wilkins knees and Dak's feet. He clearly lifts hims. I did. it's clearly not the case. At no point is there any vertical lift of Dak initiated from Wilkins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
typecast Posted December 25, 2023 Share Posted December 25, 2023 Just now, TheKillerNacho said: I did. it's clearly not the case. I don't know what to tell you then. Maybe review it later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKillerNacho Posted December 25, 2023 Share Posted December 25, 2023 2 minutes ago, typecast said: I don't know what to tell you then. Maybe review it later. don't need to - just watched it again. he hit him in the chest, wrapped him up to perform a routine tackle, and as Dak was falling back was grabbed down on top of him. At no point there is any vertical lift initiated from Wilkins. you're 100% wrong and the only fan or even analyst ive seen attempting to defend this call. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
typecast Posted December 25, 2023 Share Posted December 25, 2023 Grabbing him by the helmet is irrelevant. Lifting him, slamming him into the ground, and landing on him with his body weight is RTP. You can protest as much as you want, that's the call on the field. Wilkins will catch a fine for the hit. And no, I'm not the only fan or analyst defending the call. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.