Ozzy Posted January 8 Author Share Posted January 8 14 minutes ago, Captain Relax said: In my opinion JJ will be the best player on any team he's on. I don't think you can win the Super Bowl without your best player. Yes, he's worth $30 million a year and probably more. KIM'S job is to be sure the Vikings have a QB who is worthy of playing with JJ in his prime. Maybe, but if that is the case how did they win without him? And football is the ultimate team game and one player outside of the QB cannot change the game that much. You put Patrick Mahomes on the Vikings this year and they are a different team, you have Justin Jefferson on the team they are....30-30 over this career. Just ultimately it is not an individual game of who is the single best player because who cares if the team loses. It is not basketball and even then the only players who are in conversations to being the best are the ones that win the most. If Justin Jefferson is going to become the highest paid WR in NFL history, he better start winning games and being apart of winning teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted January 8 Author Share Posted January 8 10 minutes ago, BWG VIKE said: I would trade Jefferson for the picks that net us Harrison Jr and the ammo required to secure Penix or Daniels. Then use JJs money on Hunter and defense. So basically 2024 1st, 2nd and future 2025 1st + extras. Very true, I would not mind that getting Marvin Harrison Jr to replace Jefferson no doubt about it. Still the reality is, take Green Bay, now in the playoffs and they have a promising young QB surrounded by a bunch of talented young WRs but pretty random group and a lot of variety and he spreads it around to talented young TEs and WRs. Yet they have a solid improving OL and a talented deep DL/front 7. So who is better off, Green Bay with random WRs/TEs and young but solid deep DL and OL or the Vikings with no young QB and Justin Jefferson with a so so OL and a almost bad DL.... Yeah, anyone would take what the Packers have instead of the Vikings with just Justin Jefferson.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingsrule Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 Do we really have to move Jefferson to acquire a QB in the draft? I feel like those two moves can be independent of each other. Say they want a QB in the top 5 and they are at what 11, I’d think a future first would get a deal done. A player like Jefferson will undoubtedly make a young QBs job easier, I wouldn’t want to break that up. I think Addison can be a really good player too, I’d move him before Jefferson though. I just think it’s a really good scenario for a rookie QB to enter into with Jefferson, Addison and Hock at a receiver and a good set of Tackles. If you can get a QB at 11 that you like pull the trigger and take advantage of a down year. if you really need to get into the top 5, trade next years first before Jefferson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingsrule Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Ozzy said: Very true, I would not mind that getting Marvin Harrison Jr to replace Jefferson no doubt about it. Still the reality is, take Green Bay, now in the playoffs and they have a promising young QB surrounded by a bunch of talented young WRs but pretty random group and a lot of variety and he spreads it around to talented young TEs and WRs. Yet they have a solid improving OL and a talented deep DL/front 7. So who is better off, Green Bay with random WRs/TEs and young but solid deep DL and OL or the Vikings with no young QB and Justin Jefferson with a so so OL and a almost bad DL.... Yeah, anyone would take what the Packers have instead of the Vikings with just Justin Jefferson.... Not really fair to compare the two. While the Packers are a young team, their leadership has been around longer than KOC and Kwesi. You have to give them time to shape the roster their way. May not work out but I feel there are still a high number of players from the Spielman years so we haven’t yet made that transition to being a young team. Might happen this year with what needs to be done on defense and some big decisions to make on Hunter, Wonnum and Smith. But let’s be real, would we be talking about the Packers as a playoff team if Cousins doesn’t tear his Achilles. Edited January 8 by vikingsrule Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted January 8 Author Share Posted January 8 41 minutes ago, Captain Relax said: In my opinion JJ will be the best player on any team he's on. I don't think you can win the Super Bowl without your best player. Yes, he's worth $30 million a year and probably more. KIM'S job is to be sure the Vikings have a QB who is worthy of playing with JJ in his prime. It is hard to compare players at different positions and who is more impactful. But still reality is most likely if any of these QBs below were the QB of the Minnesota Vikings for the next five years and would stay healthy, they would win more games than if the Vikings had Justin Jefferson and some other QB potentially....unless that other QB is as good as these guys and most likely they are not. Lamar Jackson and Josh Allen are game changes with how they can move in the pocket and run, Dak Prescott is damn hard to handle because of that also, same with Mahomes of course. Pretty sure the Vikings would be better off with one of those QBs than Justin Jefferson on the roster. Sure Herbert and Stroud are still young but honestly both are super talented and have shown a lot so far and are arguably on this list also, and maybe could include Joe Burrow as well when healthy Patrick Mahomes Lamar Jackson Josh Allen Joe Burrow Justin Herbert CJ Stroud So is a WR more important than a QB, no way in the NFL today. 1 minute ago, vikingsrule said: Not really fair to compare the two. While the Packers are a young team, their leadership has been around longer than KOC and Kwesi. You have to give them time to shape the roster their way. May not work out but I feel there are still a high number of players from the Spielman years so we haven’t yet made that transition to being a young team. Might happen this year with what needs to be done on defense and some big decisions to make on Hunter, Wonnum and Smith. But let’s be real, would we be talking about the Packers as a playoff team if Cousins doesn’t tear his Achilles. True but honestly right now which roster would I take, it is Green Bay all day. They killed in the draft two years ago and really killed it this past season. So yeah give me a talented team with a promising young QB and deep roster compared to a team with a super star WR and questions almost everywhere else. And sure might be early to call but one could see it after the draft ended last year, Green Bay had a great draft the Vikings so so and turned out to be so so and really saved by Pace the UDFA. Also Kwesi does not get much great credit because that 2022 draft seems to totally suck especially those first two picks, I saw Booth was out there today more than I have seen him play most the year and that dude is awful. Ingram is eh but at least he plays unlike Booth, Cine, Asamoah...and Evans is nothing great at CB either. So the Vikings have a crap ton of work to do and not sure Justin Jefferson getting $30+ mil a year is going to solve all of their issues honestly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingsrule Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 Hate to say it, Kwesi and Co really botched that first draft when they had a high pick. So that undoubtedly is a set back, can they recover while Cousins is still playing at a high level? Really in two years they’ve gotten two players we can feel really good about in Addison and Pace. The rest are uninspiring to bad. So I’m also hesitant to move on from an elite player like Jefferson when the current FO hasn’t exactly done an inspiring job. Spielman was terrible towards the end of his tenure but he even lucked into Jefferson. Dont get rid of a good thing at the expense of an unknown (that is more likely to be botched than a success). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nzd07 Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 38 minutes ago, Ozzy said: Not sure there has ever been a really great WR that won big in the NFL with playoff and Super Bowl wins that did not have a HOF QB throwing him the ball over the past what 20-30 years. Julio Jones sure but Matt Ryan at the time was lights out for the Falcons that is for sure. Oh and he was the NFL MVP that year was he not where they went to the Super Bowl.... Only one I can recall is Steve Smith on the Carolina Panthers with Jake Delhomme as their QB when they went to the Super Bowl but did lose to the Patriots. Then he later had Cam Newton who had a few great seasons of course. And yes recently, the NFL has changed even compared to 2017. WRs are defended differently now because of the rules and QBs are protected more now because of the rule changes. You do not have to be super elite to be successful at WR because honestly you can go over the middle where before no way in hell you did that unless you were either super fast, a great route runner or a freaking tank. The game has changed and little guys like Tank Dell and Jordan Addison do just fine at what 165-170 pounds? Even Justin himself is not exactly a huge WR either especially when he came into the league. Josh Downs is another 5-9 160, Tyler Lockett has done it for awhile at 180, Zay Flowers at 170. It is all about quickness and speed where back in the day that would not fly with how players were allowed to hit. So the game is different so why not look at recent history. I highly doubt Matt Ryan wins MVP if Julio Jones tears his ACL week 1. I highly doubt the Chiefs come back against the 49ers if Tyreek gets knocked out with a concussion. An offense is the sum of its collective parts, playcaller included. That's never going to change. We're not talking about a punter or kicker here. The ONLY position I wouldn't give big money to is a running back. But that's because there is irrefutable evidence that their career lifespans are shorter than other positions. An elite RB still effects the game. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted January 8 Author Share Posted January 8 13 minutes ago, vikingsrule said: Hate to say it, Kwesi and Co really botched that first draft when they had a high pick. So that undoubtedly is a set back, can they recover while Cousins is still playing at a high level? Really in two years they’ve gotten two players we can feel really good about in Addison and Pace. The rest are uninspiring to bad. So I’m also hesitant to move on from an elite player like Jefferson when the current FO hasn’t exactly done an inspiring job. Spielman was terrible towards the end of his tenure but he even lucked into Jefferson. Dont get rid of a good thing at the expense of an unknown (that is more likely to be botched than a success). The Vikings just lucked out and when they lost Stefon Diggs they get Justin Jefferson instantly to replace him. But things could have been different, not sure Jefferson would have ever went ahead of CeeDee Lamb, but Reagor could have went to Minnesota instead of the Eagles or Higgins. But yeah keep a sure thing and Justin Jefferson I guess is a sure thing. Diggs only gets $24 mil a year though, but Diggs has a HOF QB he is playing with in Josh Allen who seems to be in the MVP race every other year. Justin Jefferson will get way more of that and sadly he is kind of a bit of a diva similar to Diggs or at least seems like it on the sidelines at times. Just seems odd giving Jefferson a ton of money when the QB is such a massive question mark. And say they do sign Cousins and sign Jefferson, who says they even win games then? Because Hunter is long gone then, so is Wonnum, Hicks, Osborn, Davenport (even though who cares he was hurt all year and got what $13 mil this past season....) Still not sure they win with even Cousins and Jefferson if DL, CB, OL are not addressed in a pretty big way. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vike daddy Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 7 minutes ago, Ozzy said: Justin Jefferson is kind of a bit of a diva similar to Diggs or at least seems like it on the sidelines at times. whut? can you in any way substantiate this? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingsrule Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 1 hour ago, vike daddy said: whut? can you in any way substantiate this? That comment lost me too. Seems to be the anti diva who sticks up for teammates. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildviking Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 I say no with or gm. If we drafted better we wouldn't be considering this. We need to draft better is how I feel. Unless it's pick 1 or 2 in this draft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robb_K Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 NO!!! JJ is a superstar generational player playing the 2nd most critical position in the current NFL game. With our current GM, there's no guarantee The Vikings will pick the best QB, or, when trying to replace JJ, will pick a WR even good enough to be a #1 WR, even using a 1st Round choice. It's also uncertain which QBs this season will be the best of this class or busts among the top 6-8 rated. Daniels may be within The Vikings' reach with a move-up trade, and Penix may even be available at their own #11 pick. I'd take either of them and try to fill around The new QB, JJ, Addison, Hockenson, re-signed Danielle, and give more help to Flores, rather than trade off a young, generational player who will be signed to an extension and can take over games himself, even with erratic 3rd string QBs throwing up dying ducks. He and Addison are so gr5eat at getting open (especially with KOCs passing play schemes) that they'd be a BIG help to any rookie QB. The Vikings really shouldn't re-sign Cousins, even at $25 million. They'd be much better off re-signing Hunter, and Cousins isn't going to accept less than 2 years guaranteed, in any case. The Vikings won't need even one whole season of Kirk IF they choose Penix (who might need to sit and watch 3 to 6 or 7 games. So, it would be better for them to sign Brissette or Minshew IF they can get them for 1 year and $15 million or so. JJ made Mullens look almost as good as Kirk despite many of the journeyman's bad, inaccurate passes. (If JJ can get to those for completions, he can make ANY of the top 5 or 6 rated QBs in this year's class. Also, eating even as low as a $30 million salary for Kirk next year spread over 2 or 3 following years, and kicking his current $28 million of "owed Cap hit" spread over them, too, just takes away cap space that will be needed for JJ's Window. As it will take 2-3 more years to get the roster Super Bowl championship ready, better to eat Cousin's built up cap hit of $28 million THIS offseason, as the roster will still have holes going into 2024. Then, in 2025 AND 2026, The Vikings will be able to stock up on a few high-grade UFAs each year, while paying higher salaries for Darrisaw and any players graduating from their rookie contracts. The rookie QB won't be all that much less effective than Cousins by the end of 2024, and by the start of 2025, The Vikings will be a playoff team again, and a bonafide Lombardi Trophy contender by 2026, after adding their top 3 or 4 draft choices each draft, and integrating them into the mix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjfja_fkdldjs Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 Here is my deep analysis. I like watching JJ play on the Vikings, so I wouldn't trade him. We can debate to hell and back on what would give us "the best chance to win a SB". But what is for certain is that he is a fun player to have on the team and I'd like to keep watching him. Thanks! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GermanVike Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 For my part, I don't want to go back to the Bobby Wade and Greg Camarillo days. So no, I wouldn't trade Jefferson.... except for when he makes outrageous demands (40m+) during the contract negotiations. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viking Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 If you want to win a Superbowl you don't trade HOF caliber players. It's that simple 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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