Ozzy Posted January 12 Author Share Posted January 12 9 minutes ago, Captain Relax said: I think the answer is within your post. The answer is to get a good quarterback. That might be Kirk for a couple of seasons or a 1st round quarterback...or both. You are correct in that there isn't a team that will compete for a Super Bowl that has a great WR but a mediocre QB. The answer isn't to get rid of your WR who seems to be a generational talent. The answer is to have a complimentary QB. Of the 20 highest paid WRs in the NFL, currently none are this young and up and coming WR with a crap QB. And if one just looks at talented young WRs, George Pickens on the Steelers, he has never played with a good QB but I am pretty sure they will not build the team around him either and rather build it around edge rushers and a solid offensive line and a QB if they can find one. Zay Flowers for the Ravens, they are not building the team around him he is just a piece but is way down the chain of most important players. JaMarr Chase, Jefferson's equal in many ways, even he is not the absolute key to their team because Joe Burrow is the team and one can see that when he was out this season. Pretty damn sure they miss Burrow far more than if Chase got hurt because they have guys who can take his place or equal his production arguably, not Burrow. Even the All Pro WR St. Brown on the Lions, he is the reason for their success? No it is offensive line, Jared Goff along with many other weapons on offense. He is a part but is not the main part. Even Garrett Wilson on the Jets, sure he is really good but no way are they building their organization around him, there is a reason they paid Rodgers millions to come over there... Who knows, granted maybe Hockenson and Jefferson were being held back and a new QB will have them all breakout. But fact is they still will most likely not be great at running the ball, not have a great OL and have a suspect defense. One already knows what that is like, even with a healthy Kirk Cousins, that offense does well but the defense does not and ultimately winning close games barley all season is not a recipe to win titles or even playoff games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Relax Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 14 minutes ago, Ozzy said: Of the 20 highest paid WRs in the NFL, currently none are this young and up and coming WR with a crap QB. And if one just looks at talented young WRs, George Pickens on the Steelers, he has never played with a good QB but I am pretty sure they will not build the team around him either and rather build it around edge rushers and a solid offensive line and a QB if they can find one. Zay Flowers for the Ravens, they are not building the team around him he is just a piece but is way down the chain of most important players. JaMarr Chase, Jefferson's equal in many ways, even he is not the absolute key to their team because Joe Burrow is the team and one can see that when he was out this season. Pretty damn sure they miss Burrow far more than if Chase got hurt because they have guys who can take his place or equal his production arguably, not Burrow. Even the All Pro WR St. Brown on the Lions, he is the reason for their success? No it is offensive line, Jared Goff along with many other weapons on offense. He is a part but is not the main part. Even Garrett Wilson on the Jets, sure he is really good but no way are they building their organization around him, there is a reason they paid Rodgers millions to come over there... Who knows, granted maybe Hockenson and Jefferson were being held back and a new QB will have them all breakout. But fact is they still will most likely not be great at running the ball, not have a great OL and have a suspect defense. One already knows what that is like, even with a healthy Kirk Cousins, that offense does well but the defense does not and ultimately winning close games barley all season is not a recipe to win titles or even playoff games. You and I will continue to disagree about what to do with Jefferson. Thanks for the really good back and forth. I doubt that either of us will convince the other to come around to our point of view. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrplChilPill Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 11 minutes ago, Captain Relax said: You and I will continue to disagree about what to do with Jefferson. Thanks for the really good back and forth. I doubt that either of us will convince the other to come around to our point of view. I love the maturity and politeness of this post. Thank you. I agree, no one on this thread is changing their mind. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted January 12 Author Share Posted January 12 27 minutes ago, PrplChilPill said: I love the maturity and politeness of this post. Thank you. I agree, no one on this thread is changing their mind. True, but at least I provide examples and give multiple reasons as to why. No recent proof of proven long term winning success by building a team around a WR. Also no proof that anyone would not trade straight up a top young proven QB for Justin Jefferson because most I think absolutely would if the deal happened, but we all know that would never occur in the NFL. Sucky part is that right now the Vikings option is either resign Kirk Cousins and pay him $30+ mil unless he takes some ridiculous discount....or draft Bo Nix or Michael Penix Jr because the other top three QBs will be taken before then. So not sure either one of those options are great, as if Bo Nix/Penix Jr with Jefferson is a Super bowl winning combo and one already knows what they are like with Cousins. Fact is though would the Vikings be better off if they could somehow draft Marvin Harrison Jr and pay him less than Jefferson but get almost equal performance, same with Odunze....yeah they would be because it would give them what $15-20 mil to play with and pay one or two other proven vets or to keep a guy like Darrisaw or Hunter. Either way the fact is right now the Lions, Packers and Bears all have better rosters long term than the Vikings with better more proven young players. Maybe could be on the fence with the Bears roster but I would say no question the Bears D is farther along and has more proven young DBs than the Vikings and their offense has not one but two promising young QBs but I assume Fields might be on his way out possibly. And none of those teams have major free agents coming up in 2024 and the Vikings have multiple big name free agents coming up... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vike daddy Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 we need more sunglassed diva pics! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swede700 Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 On 1/12/2024 at 7:08 PM, vike daddy said: we need more sunglassed diva pics! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vike daddy Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 Bleacher Report: "A franchise like the Arizona Cardinals could be highly interested if Jefferson becomes available. Arizona is loaded with draft capital this year, owning 13 selections overall with six of them coming in the top 90 and two in the first round. Converting some of those picks into a player of Jefferson’s caliber would be a shrewd move for a franchise looking to contend again with a healthy Kyler Murray at the helm." "Given Arizona’s leading pass-catcher was tight end Trey McBride (81 receptions, 825 yards and three touchdowns) this past season, it’s obvious the squad needs to bring in an elite receiver to round out the offense. Drafting someone like Marvin Harrison Jr. could be an option at No. 4 overall, but using that pick to land a sure-thing in Jefferson via trade should be even more alluring." Trading your best player, in his prime just doesn’t make a lot of sense, but Bleacher Report believes this may be onto something. As for what Minnesota could net in return for JJ, here’s what Kay dreamed up: Arizona Cardinals receive: Justin Jefferson Minnesota Vikings receive: 2024 first-round pick (No. 4 overall), 2025 first-round pick, 2024 third-round pick (No. 71 overall) I think if you showed this trade to Kwesi Adofo-Mensah, you may not be hung up on, but they’d probably get a pretty quick “no”. But truthfully, I don’t know if there are any trade packages for JJ that the Vikings might actually be intrigued by. https://www.minnesotasportsfan.com/justin-jefferson-trade-rumor-arizona/?fbclid=IwAR1K1-mcRdIGt2FPM2dWHsdjCnYABWRmvPdzGvH89_1vqojwHhWym-ENAvU 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CriminalMind Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 If JJ was looking at terms last off season that the Vikings were not really comfortable with (example: “very” high salary, high guarantees and a NTC) … of course I’m interested if a team called. And yes a 2024 top 5 pick and a 2025 1st rd pick would be the starting point. If I’m trading JJ, the asset received needs to directly fetch the QBoTF 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Relax Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 12 hours ago, vike daddy said: Bleacher Report: "A franchise like the Arizona Cardinals could be highly interested if Jefferson becomes available. Arizona is loaded with draft capital this year, owning 13 selections overall with six of them coming in the top 90 and two in the first round. Converting some of those picks into a player of Jefferson’s caliber would be a shrewd move for a franchise looking to contend again with a healthy Kyler Murray at the helm." "Given Arizona’s leading pass-catcher was tight end Trey McBride (81 receptions, 825 yards and three touchdowns) this past season, it’s obvious the squad needs to bring in an elite receiver to round out the offense. Drafting someone like Marvin Harrison Jr. could be an option at No. 4 overall, but using that pick to land a sure-thing in Jefferson via trade should be even more alluring." Trading your best player, in his prime just doesn’t make a lot of sense, but Bleacher Report believes this may be onto something. As for what Minnesota could net in return for JJ, here’s what Kay dreamed up: Arizona Cardinals receive: Justin Jefferson Minnesota Vikings receive: 2024 first-round pick (No. 4 overall), 2025 first-round pick, 2024 third-round pick (No. 71 overall) I think if you showed this trade to Kwesi Adofo-Mensah, you may not be hung up on, but they’d probably get a pretty quick “no”. But truthfully, I don’t know if there are any trade packages for JJ that the Vikings might actually be intrigued by. https://www.minnesotasportsfan.com/justin-jefferson-trade-rumor-arizona/?fbclid=IwAR1K1-mcRdIGt2FPM2dWHsdjCnYABWRmvPdzGvH89_1vqojwHhWym-ENAvU Tell the receptionist that you offering the above and throwing in another first round pick in 2026 and a second in 2024 AND James Conner, I will take your call for further negotiations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swede700 Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 1 hour ago, Captain Relax said: Tell the receptionist that you offering the above and throwing in another first round pick in 2026 and a second in 2024 AND James Conner, I will take your call for further negotiations. Well, I'd rather have John Connor, I want nothing to do with James. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Relax Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 1 hour ago, swede700 said: Well, I'd rather have John Connor, I want nothing to do with James. What have you against Conner? I thought he was better than any of our RBs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swede700 Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Captain Relax said: What have you against Conner? I thought he was better than any of our RBs. He has an extensive injury history...and not only that, turns 29 in May. Edited January 18 by swede700 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Relax Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 1 hour ago, swede700 said: He has an extensive injury history...and not only that, turns 29 in May. Ok. I get it. He seemed to be very effective in Arizona's offense in 2023. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hagar Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 (edited) This is a tough question. He would obviously help a young QB (either as a rookie, or a year or two). Carolina screwed Young imo by giving up firsts and DJ Moore, leaving him nothing for help for multiple years. But this is contingent on us getting OUR QB, not a "left over" that we take because he is only real option left. But if trading him for, say, #4 to get OUR QB and multiple other high picks to build our team for cheap would also be good to see as well. We would still have Addison, potentially Osborne, and Hock (when he returns) so still a good group of vet targets. Would need to be draft day trade unless we get a top 3 pick to ensure our guy(s) would be there. Tough call, can't decide.... imagine #4 AND 11? Who would you take? Edited January 19 by Hagar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted January 19 Author Share Posted January 19 47 minutes ago, Hagar said: This is a tough question. He would obviously help a young QB (either as a rookie, or a year or two). Carolina screwed Young imo by giving up firsts and DJ Moore, leaving him nothing for help for multiple years. But this is contingent on us getting OUR QB, not a "left over" that we take because he is only real option left. But if trading him for, say, #4 to get OUR QB and multiple other high picks to build our team for cheap would also be good to see as well. We would still have Addison, potentially Osborne, and Hock (when he returns) so still a good group of vet targets. Would need to be draft day trade unless we get a top 3 pick to ensure our guy(s) would be there. Tough call, can't decide.... imagine #4 AND 11? Who would you take? Sure is the pick #4 that different than #11? No, maybe Vikings could get Jaydon Daniels at #4 but not sure he is a total savor at the position either. Ideally would be they get someone like Harrison Jr or Odunze, keep Cousins and ideally get more picks along with one of those two WRs who could totally take the place of Jefferson moving forward and save the organization millions. Like I posted in the 2024 draft threat, the Packers obviously decide to spend their money not on one WR like the Vikings soon could be doing. Instead Green Bay spends on two young TEs and all four young WRs, all 6 of them only make around $7-$8 mil a year combined together currently for all six guys! Where the Vikings are about to pay $30-$35 mil yearly for one WR for multiple years with a majority of the contract being guaranteed. Packers are clearly in a better position now and long term because they got a QB and just fill in around him. Granted they have drafted very well the past two years especially last year so that does help greatly with everything. Out of the top 4 targeted WRs in the NFL, all four are currently out of the playoffs and two were on teams that made the playoffs and obviously Dallas/Miami are currently out of the playoffs and lost. Out of the top 10 most targeted WRs in the NFL, two are still in the playoffs with St. Brown and the Lions along with Stefon Diggs and the Bills. And both are not the main reason their teams are still in it, part of it but pretty sure they are not the absolute deciding factor with either organization. And like I brought up earlier, sure some might consider Jefferson the "2nd best player" in the NFL, but again reality is no one and no organization would take Justin Jefferson over any of these QBs over the next 5 years in terms of winning football games. Patrick Mahomes Lamar Jackson Josh Allen Joe Burrow CJ Stroud Justin Herbert and sadly probably can throw Jordan Love in that mix if he keeps playing this well and maybe some other QBs possibly. It is just the reality and so far Justin Jefferson being apart of the organization is great and he puts up stats but does it make the team win, and the fact is absolutely not when it matters. If they can sign him long term with Cousins, not sure that wins them anything either other than spending a lot of money and for what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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