El Ramster Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 Just now, wackywabbit said: @El Ramster are you ok? You seem very brittle and I'm honestly worried about you. It's ok. None of this is that serious. I’m gucci. Let me run to twitter and find a stat for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas5737 Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 52 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said: I don't really follow this logic. Lamar is the reason they are blowing out teams, not vice versa. So yeah, when Lamar plays well we blow teams out. When he doesn't, we don't? That's kinda basic stuff. Part of the reason. Just like he is only part of the reason when they lose. They blew out the Seahawks without him doing much, maybe 240 total yards and no TD. The Ravens only gave up 20 points 6 times all season. They were 4-2. It isn't like the Ravens have nothing else to depend on. Defense was a big factor in plenty of wins this year. The RBs for a few. It isn't like the team that rushes for more yards wins more often, that being a fake stat because teams with leads run more. Lamar plays better with a lead because defenses give up more in the passing game trying to stop the ground game. Do it, take advantage of it. Build up some stats. It's all good. Those are just easier games to pass in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaddHatter Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 45 minutes ago, MaddHatter said: Can Lamar develop out of being a Choker or is that permanent? In his DNA? A mental deficiency? Can Mahomes develop into a Choker, or is the “clutch” factor permanent? In his DNA? A mental capability others lack? This question isn’t for ElRammy - it’s to anyone who uses the choker label. Not just for Lamar, but in general. Any sport, any professional athlete. Don’t care if it’s Dan Marino or Charles Barkley. If you talk about pro athletes and use “clutch” or “choke” I wanna know your thought process Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wackywabbit Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 10 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said: It isn't like the team that rushes for more yards wins more often, that being a fake stat because teams with leads run more. Lamar plays better with a lead because defenses give up more in the passing game trying to stop the ground game. Do it, take advantage of it. Build up some stats. It's all good. Those are just easier games to pass in. I take it Lamar Jackson passing splits when trailing mean nothing to you. You are happy with what you believe, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soko Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 4 hours ago, AngusMcFife said: My friend, you need to work on your writing skills. It seems like you are trying to making some incisive points but the ideas don't flow together at all. Rework this and resubmit please. Appreciate it. Let me keep it “simple”. Y u have problem w/ ppl asking 4 Lamar to radically improve, whn u admitz Lamar no 3L17E passer?? 4 hours ago, AngusMcFife said: ??? I don't get what you are trying to communicate. Yeah, I get that. Player comps are fun on a forum, but hold no water towards what’ll actually happen with a completely separate player. 4 hours ago, AngusMcFife said: Maybe your reading comprehension needs work too. The premise of the argument (do you understand what a premise is?) that others have floated is that "running QBs", once they become slightly less athletic, lose their effectiveness as a passer. Oh? Could you point that part out? 4 hours ago, AngusMcFife said: But this is contradicted by the fact by that Vick, Cunningham, and Young all had their best passing seasons after age 30. Young didn’t even start a season until after 30, but keep clinging. Vick and Cunningham did indeed have outlier seasons, before regressing back to what they were. Why would factually outlier seasons be indicative of future events? 4 hours ago, AngusMcFife said: Unfortunately for them, Cunningham and Vick's bodies broke down and they could not continue on. But they had full seasons of excellent play after 30, which were the best seasons of their careers. Full seasons? Which full season was that, for Vick and Cunningham? Do tell. 4 hours ago, AngusMcFife said: Therefore, it seems quite apparent that "running QBs" can improve their passing ability into their 30s to makeup for their loss in athleticism. Obviously, if they suffer a debilitating shoulder injury like Cam, we really can't assess how they would perform in their 30s. Any QB could improve their passing ability past the age of 30. Unfortunately, at least for the mobile guys, it hasn’t worked out to where they’ve done anything aside from one randomly good season before returning to the IR or regressing. Bad news. 4 hours ago, AngusMcFife said: Not really. It depends on the type of hits and who is doing the hitting, and the players body position while being hit. Some players will never get injured, and some are very injury prone. Tony Gonzalez played 17 years and missed 2 games. Indeed, some players will never get injured, some are very prone. However, more hits = bad for health and durability. More running = bad for health and durability. Whether that comes to fruition, we don’t know yet, but as you’ve gracefully pointed out, it hasn’t for guys like Vick, Cunningham, and Cam. Tony is (surprise) another stupid example, unless you want to start talking about other positions and their longevity vs QBs? 4 hours ago, AngusMcFife said: Wow man, you like thinking about my emotions and sh*t? Maybe find some other dude who wants to reciprocate, I'm not into that. I don’t know what you’re referencing. I do know the examples you cherry picked don’t make any sense because they both hurt your argument and aren’t indications of Lamar Jackson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas5737 Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 1 hour ago, wackywabbit said: I take it Lamar Jackson passing splits when trailing mean nothing to you. You are happy with what you believe, right? He had 2 passing TDs and 4 interceptions in his 4 losses this season, I'm going to guess he didn't play as well in those games. It still isn't all his fault, I'm not saying that or implying that. I'm stating his big games passing come in blowouts. He had 3 big passing games this year, two were against the Lions and Dolphins, huge blowouts where the game was decided in the 1st half. Nothing wrong with it, just a fact. He also had a good passing effort against the Rams in OT so I'm not saying it's the only time, but things get easier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wackywabbit Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 3 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said: He had 2 passing TDs and 4 interceptions in his 4 losses this season, I'm going to guess he didn't play as well in those games. It still isn't all his fault, I'm not saying that or implying that. I'm stating his big games passing come in blowouts. He had 3 big passing games this year, two were against the Lions and Dolphins, huge blowouts where the game was decided in the 1st half. Nothing wrong with it, just a fact. He also had a good passing effort against the Rams in OT so I'm not saying it's the only time, but things get easier. You didn't answer the question. The regular season losses, he was ahead most of the game and they lost late. What actually are his passing stat splits when trailing vs ahead? This year or going back? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas5737 Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 28 minutes ago, wackywabbit said: You didn't answer the question. The regular season losses, he was ahead most of the game and they lost late. What actually are his passing stat splits when trailing vs ahead? This year or going back? You'll have to answer your own question. I don't have the data, nor is it the point I'm making. His big games come in blowout wins for the most part. Not always, see Seattle and Rams. It's harder for every QB when they are down multiple scores. They, for the most part, become one dimensional and that is obviously easier to defend. The Chiefs game is a good example. They called plays like they were down 20 points after the Chiefs went up 14-7. It didn't work out great. The Texans game was the opposite. It was close for a half (thanks to a punt return) and then they piled on in the second half. The Texans had 2 drives all game that went for more than 30 yards. They also ran the ball against the Texans, almost a two to one rate if you count Lamar's runs. It was almost three to one pass against the Chiefs. Not smart but that's not on Lamar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuskieTitan Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 Folks love to point at Peyton Manning as the reason why Jackson could get over the hump while ignoring all other examples of elite or good players who never won, like Marino, Rivers, Ryan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuskieTitan Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 And when evaluating his playstyle against players of the past, such as Cunningham, Vick, and Newton, none of them ever won a Super Bowl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaddHatter Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 So is it that he's not "clutch" and always "chokes" or is it his play style that prevents him from ever being able to win a ring? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngusMcFife Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 11 hours ago, Soko said: Young didn’t even start a season until after 30, but keep clinging. I mean, he started 14 games in 1986. I'm not sure if you are phrasing your statement in a way to conceal that or you didn't know. I've yet to really understand what you are trying to say. You are more interested in making poorly written, convoluted criticisms rather than sharing ideas and contributing to the topic. You are very fixated on trying calling me stupid, and yet have nothing to say. Weird, stalkerish behavior. I'm telling you now, I'm not interested, but thanks for your attention. You are obviously very interested in me, I guess it's flattering in a way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiefer Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 12 hours ago, MaddHatter said: This question isn’t for ElRammy - it’s to anyone who uses the choker label. Not just for Lamar, but in general. Any sport, any professional athlete. Don’t care if it’s Dan Marino or Charles Barkley. If you talk about pro athletes and use “clutch” or “choke” I wanna know your thought process I mean Mahomes choked against the Bengals a couple years back. A clutch player can choke, but still be clutch overall . Thusly a choker can become clutch as long as he wins when it counts. Seemed like Kirk Cousins was shedding that label before his Achilles tear this season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mox Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 Nope Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaddHatter Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 37 minutes ago, Chiefer said: I mean Mahomes choked against the Bengals a couple years back. A clutch player can choke, but still be clutch overall . Thusly a choker can become clutch as long as he wins when it counts. Seemed like Kirk Cousins was shedding that label before his Achilles tear this season. So is choking just an event? Not a trait? I think of choking as something that happens because someone's mentally incapable of handling the stress of the moment and they "freeze" or are unable to process and make decisions in the moment. Whether that's in the middle of combat with bullets flying around you or under the bright lights surrounded by 100,000 screaming fans, sometimes the moment can be too big for someone. That being said, if a player plays big in big games in College, it would seem like he has that trait to be clutch, even if he's not 100% all the time. If it's just a way to label an event or a moment (he choked when he under threw that pass to the TE in triple coverage) then that's different than labeling him as a choker in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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