TecmoSuperJoe Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 (edited) On 2/13/2024 at 5:51 AM, RaidersAreOne said: Do literally anything to land an elite QB. Anything. Doesn't matter if the organization is hideous in how they operate. Pray for Herbie. Edited February 14 by TecmoSuperJoe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jebrick Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 The same as always. Build a good/great team then get your QB. Both teams did just that. KC is playing their franchise QB so they are limited. SF has yet to pay their franchise QB so they could stick around longer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OkeyDoke21 Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 On 2/12/2024 at 2:03 PM, prob2236 said: I would agree in general but I also think that the recent trend is that Superbowl winning teams all have elite level QBs. The most recent one that wasn't might be Peyton Manning the year the broncos one. And that might have been one of the best defenses of the last decade. Eagles with Foles was a little more recent. I wouldn't say Russell Wilson was elite with the LoB (another great D.) He became elite, but not really when they were competing for rings. Kind of like Manning, where seeing the name wouldn't make you put them in the non-elite qb basket, but just where they were at that particular point wasn't top level, they were just trending in opposite directions. Same with Ben in '05. It seems to happen every 4-5 years, but the teams consistently there are the one's with an elite qb at the top of his game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire12 Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 On 2/12/2024 at 4:23 PM, Ozzy said: This is how you win, draft extremely well and get great value in cheap veterans you bring in. Almost all of these guys are starters and many are super high quality starters like McDuffie, Karlaftis, Sneed, Humphrey, Bolton and Smith. All are getting paid close to nothing especially on that under $1.5 mil a year list. Under $4 million a year Trent McDuffie George Karlaftis Drue Tranquill Nick Allegretti Justin Watson Tershawn Wharton Under $2 million a year Creed Humphrey Nick Bolton Under $1.5 million a year L'Jarius Sneed Trey Smith Isiah Pacheco Willie Gay Noah Gray Mike Edwards Mike Pennel Joshua Williams Leo Chenal Rashee Rice Sure the Chiefs have Mahomes and Kelce but the nuts and bolts of the team is paid very little but they perform extremely well. Soon they will have to pay the likes of Humphrey, Smith, Sneed, Bolton etc. Not sure they can but they draft so well they could find a replacement potentially. Also are smart in spending on the OL and not so much at WR, especially with the TE group they already have, also do not spend at RB either much at all. Trading away Tyreek Hill was a great choice and won them two Super Bowls now. They do one hell of a job drafting and have the best three group of LBs in the NFL and the best pair of cover corners in the NFL and the best pass rushing DT and most versatile DT in Chris Jones in the NFL. Oh and that interior OL is arguably tops in the NFL. Sure Thuney was out but Allegretti is a great backup arguably the best backup guard in the league with all of his proven experience in the past few years. So what is it about, defense and a great QB. Sure without Mahomes none of this ever happened but arguably without that D or interior OL none of this would happen either. Agreed. It takes a combination of hitting on enough draft picks in consecutive years + adding value FA that fill holes and provides performance above the pay rate. This leads to why it is hard to stay on top. Those cheap rookies will want to get paid and continuing to hit on the draft picks at a high enough rate is harder to do than most realize. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 2 hours ago, squire12 said: Agreed. It takes a combination of hitting on enough draft picks in consecutive years + adding value FA that fill holes and provides performance above the pay rate. This leads to why it is hard to stay on top. Those cheap rookies will want to get paid and continuing to hit on the draft picks at a high enough rate is harder to do than most realize. Maybe but really 2018 was the only so so Chiefs draft since they drafted Mahomes in 2017. 2019 they got Allegretti, Sanders, Fenton, Thornhill and Hardman. Year after that got Gay, Sneed and Danna then the big one after that in 2021 with Bolton, Humphrey, Trey Smith and Gray then after that another outstanding draft with McDuffie, Karlaftis, Chenal, Joshua Williams, Pacheco, Watson and Cook. Then of course this last year not as dominating but Rice was clearly key and Morris has potential along with Anudike-Uzomah. As for free agents they did get the benefit of having a Super Bowl contending successful team to get some what cheaper veteran contracts to guys that wanted to win mostly Tranquill, Mike Edwards and Donovan Smith. And based on play Jawaan Taylor was way over paid and so was Valdes Scantling but with that many productive young rookies who cares and it did not matter. Having Mahomes with it all is super key though of course but he could not have had the success without that interior OL. Was smart of the Chiefs to not pay the WR in Hill a ton of money and rather spread that wealth around. Of late in the NFL not sure it has been proven at all that a top flight WR can win you a Super Bowl unless you have a HOF type QB honestly. Vikings are one example, see if they pay Justin Jefferson all the money but without a HOF QB not sure it matters and not sure Justin Jefferson alone can make them win because he has not shown that, they are around .500 over his career in Minnesota. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
game3525 Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 Quote Having Mahomes with it all is super key though of course but he could not have had the success without that interior OL. Was smart of the Chiefs to not pay the WR in Hill a ton of money and rather spread that wealth around. Of late in the NFL not sure it has been proven at all that a top flight WR can win you a Super Bowl unless you have a HOF type QB honestly. Vikings are one example, see if they pay Justin Jefferson all the money but without a HOF QB not sure it matters and not sure Justin Jefferson alone can make them win because he has not shown that, they are around .500 over his career in Minnesota. Yeah, I think the last team to win a Super Bowl with a wideout taking up a significant portion of the cap was the 2006 Colts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire12 Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 10 hours ago, Ozzy said: Maybe but really 2018 was the only so so Chiefs draft since they drafted Mahomes in 2017 Sure, 1 down year so they might not have added in the draft and in 21/22 FA they added Thuney, Reid, MVS Recognizing when their draft class missed and getting outside FA vs retaining from inside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire12 Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 10 hours ago, Ozzy said: Having Mahomes with it all is super key though of course but he could not have had the success without that interior OL. Was smart of the Chiefs to not pay the WR in Hill a ton of money and rather spread that wealth around. Of late in the NFL not sure it has been proven at all that a top flight WR can win you a Super Bowl unless you have a HOF type QB honestly. Vikings are one example, see if they pay Justin Jefferson all the money but without a HOF QB not sure it matters and not sure Justin Jefferson alone can make them win because he has not shown that, they are around .500 over his career in Minnesota. Very true. KC traded Hill and has used the miney and picks to bolster other positions. GB traded Adams and restocked WR with yound players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuskieTitan Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 On 2/13/2024 at 2:20 PM, RaidersAreOne said: I have been against moving Crosby historically but yup, I would move him if we land a true franchise guy. He's the only "untouchable" on the Raiders but even then I'd likely do it if our FO is certain Williams or Maye projects as a 15+ year, elite franchise QB guy. What about a 7 year career ala Andrew Luck before calling it quits? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Football_Bachelor08 Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 On 2/12/2024 at 12:27 PM, Daniel said: Did the Rams Super Bowl just not happen? There's a huge gap between 2015 Peyton and 2021 Stafford. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USADave Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 Pretty much how I’ve viewed it for 15+ years. I’m of the belief that you build a great team and then find your Quarterback. Drafting a great QB prospect and throwing him onto one of the worst teams in the NFL is terrible value. Almost every team with a top pick should be trying to flip that into high end building blocks. Even a team like the bears should consider the trade down if the value is there. Say the bears trade the rights to Caleb for a blockbuster 3x 1sts and 3x 2nd. Over the next three years they would have six first round picks and six second round picks on a team that already has some young talent. I genuinely don’t think they could mess that up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 If you have the greatest player in NFL history you can really get away with pretty much anything else Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tugboat Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 On 2/20/2024 at 4:48 PM, squire12 said: Agreed. It takes a combination of hitting on enough draft picks in consecutive years + adding value FA that fill holes and provides performance above the pay rate. This leads to why it is hard to stay on top. Those cheap rookies will want to get paid and continuing to hit on the draft picks at a high enough rate is harder to do than most realize. Yeah. This is the thing. You might be able to build a "Contender" around just having a ridiculous pile of talent compiled all at once. At WR/RB Skill spots, at OLine, at DLine, LBer, and to a lesser extent DB. You can even afford to really "pay" a bunch of those guys at a bunch of those spots to make it possible to stack up the talent. But if you don't have that Top-10 or better QB...you're extremely unlikely to ever sustain that window for any length of time. At some point, it's just too many people to pay and it's too unreliable to be able to purely replace elite talent when you can't afford to pay everyone. That's where that Elite QB comes into play. You may end up eating up a huge chunk of your cap on them, but it's far more sustainable than the alternative, because those elite quarterbacks elevate the play of everyone around them and are capable of covering up for a plethora of issues at other spots in your lineup, and overcoming deficiencies elsewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr A W Niloc Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 San Francisco and Kansas City haven't had to rebuild a team in years. They set the standard in maintaining a great team. The 2023 Houston Texans and Detroit Lions were far better examples of rebuilds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaidersForever Posted April 17 Share Posted April 17 On 2/13/2024 at 8:23 PM, sparky151 said: If you ran the Raiders, what would be your best offer to get to pick #1? Crosby + what? There's another thread about it but I'm curious if Bears fans would mostly be in favor of accepting whatever your offer is. Bears get: Davante Adams, Maxx Crosby, 2025 1st RP, 2nd RP, and 3rd RP. Raiders get 2024 #1 and #9 I don't think the Bears would go for it (especially now), but I'd still try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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