Steelers extend HC Mike Tomlin through 2027

[warfelg]

12 minutes ago, 43M said:

The issue is, there are very few great head coaches, not even alot of truly good ones,  and most fall under average or worse.

I consider Tomlin average to decent, and have openly admitted our chances of doing worse are better than our chances of improving from him....but ONCE AGAIN, at what point do you say "We have to take a chance on someone else, because this isnt working"?

Im not as concerned about the lack of playoff and  Super Bowl wins as I am WHY we aren't winning as many playoff games and Superbowls.    Since 2010 or so, this team has gotten extremely complacent, the attitude and culture has gotten softer, the edge is gone, the standards seem lower, and the team management/building has declined.   Obviously, not all of that is on Tomlin, but he is still part of ALL OF IT.

Believe me...if I had my say, Id get rid of Art Rooney II before Tomlin and go from there, but at some point, you have to acknowledge that Tomlin is part of the degradation of this franchise over the last 10 or so years.

Let me ask this: since you say team management and building has declined, even though Tomlin was part of it, don’t we have the right to see out with Khan just how much of that issue was Tomlin?

Because remember what this team looked like late in Donahoe’s time as GM. The team was coming off 3 straight years of non-playoffs, 2 losing seasons, after early success adding to **** Haley’s team of the 80’s. Then Colbert came in for the 2000 offseason, there was a shift in the way things operated, and there was a lot success. 
 

It’s kinda funny, because I think it was one of the locked on podcasts after the extension, there was a quote that other coaches get Steelers players via trade or FA and go that guy is an you-know-what-hole, how the hell did Tomlin deal with him. I know it’s neither here or there because we don’t know who pushed for those particular guys but it’s kinda funny that coaches kinda look at him like that.

So while Tomlin is certainly part of the issues that have plagued the drafting from really 2016 to 2022, they have turned around it seems. So while he’s certainly a part of the bad, he’s also a part of the seeming better moves so far.  
 

That’s my long way of saying, yes Tomlin has his part in the slide, but I blame Colbert much more for continually drafting poor character guys and for being the GM that lead some bad drafts. If I’m two years these young guys don’t develop and we’re still right in this place, then he should be gone. But if we get better, these guys develop, and we win a playoff game then he certainly deserves the credit. 

[7DnBrnc53]

On 6/14/2024 at 2:28 PM, StatKing said:

Does 2015 not count?

Peyton Manning, Pat Bowlen, and Adam Peters are more responsible for that than Elway.

[43M]

On 6/15/2024 at 10:26 PM, warfelg said:

Let me ask this: since you say team management and building has declined, even though Tomlin was part of it, don’t we have the right to see out with Khan just how much of that issue was Tomlin?

Because remember what this team looked like late in Donahoe’s time as GM. The team was coming off 3 straight years of non-playoffs, 2 losing seasons, after early success adding to **** Haley’s team of the 80’s. Then Colbert came in for the 2000 offseason, there was a shift in the way things operated, and there was a lot success. 

Perhaps....but Im curious what excuses will be made if the results are the same.

But hey, here's Tomlin's chance.   Believe it or not, I hope he makes me eat crow.

On 6/15/2024 at 10:26 PM, warfelg said:

It’s kinda funny, because I think it was one of the locked on podcasts after the extension, there was a quote that other coaches get Steelers players via trade or FA and go that guy is an you-know-what-hole, how the hell did Tomlin deal with him. I know it’s neither here or there because we don’t know who pushed for those particular guys but it’s kinda funny that coaches kinda look at him like that.

So while Tomlin is certainly part of the issues that have plagued the drafting from really 2016 to 2022, they have turned around it seems. So while he’s certainly a part of the bad, he’s also a part of the seeming better moves so far.  

Tomlin has done well dealing with big egos, I give you that.  He is a players coach, and thats the GOOD part of having a players coach.

Its way too early to say its been turned around when we have technically only seen one year of the new regime ON THE FIELD, and we have yet to find out if we have actually hit on ANYTHING yet.

On 6/15/2024 at 10:26 PM, warfelg said:

That’s my long way of saying, yes Tomlin has his part in the slide, but I blame Colbert much more for continually drafting poor character guys and for being the GM that lead some bad drafts. If I’m two years these young guys don’t develop and we’re still right in this place, then he should be gone. But if we get better, these guys develop, and we win a playoff game then he certainly deserves the credit. 

Again though...why was it Colbert's fault ALONE that we have drafted poorly?  And if that IS the case, why does Tomlin deserve credit if/when we draft well?

Not trying to be difficult, but these are the double standards I have issues with.   And I used to have similar issues when certain Tomlin haters on the Steeler forum used to give credit to everyone EXCEPT Tomlin for good things and blame him for all the bad things.

I get you are acknowledging Tomlin's faults in our struggles, but I have a hard time believing Tomlin hasnt had a pretty major hand in most of the players we have brought in, via free agency or the draft.   Colbert certainly had his influence, and we have already seen a different approach, so PERHAPS he had more pull than Tomlin....but at the end of the day, the credit and blame need to balance out.   If he gets credit for our successes, he should be held accountable for the failures.

He has 4 years now, and despite my annoyance, I will root for him to succeed.   I have no personal vendetta against Tomlin, nor am I a hater.    I am just skeptical he can move this team forward and keep it moving forward based on everything Ive seen from him over the years.  

Either way, he better figure out the QB issue pretty quickly....which I have a feeling will remain an issue for years to come.

[warfelg]

3 hours ago, 43M said:

Perhaps....but Im curious what excuses will be made if the results are the same.

But hey, here's Tomlin's chance.   Believe it or not, I hope he makes me eat crow.

I guess this is the difference in my mind, because I feel like I try to be clear:

I don’t brush it off like all this stuff is ok. I just don’t like looking at something like the playoff record without understanding why it’s bad. 

Like to be the 2020 browns game is the perfect example. Pouncey snaps it into the end zone and Ben throws 3 picks in his own defensive territory in the next 5 drives. If you want to say those happened because he didn’t have them ready…ok. But the only way to avoid those mistakes was to not have those players out there. So while he wears that loss in the end, it’s not something I hold against him. 

3 hours ago, 43M said:

Tomlin has done well dealing with big egos, I give you that.  He is a players coach, and thats the GOOD part of having a players coach.

Its way too early to say its been turned around when we have technically only seen one year of the new regime ON THE FIELD, and we have yet to find out if we have actually hit on ANYTHING yet.

Which is why, IMO, you have to give it a few years. Because if it is turning around, and it continues, you don’t want to end up prematurely dumping a coach. 

3 hours ago, 43M said:

Again though...why was it Colbert's fault ALONE that we have drafted poorly?  And if that IS the case, why does Tomlin deserve credit if/when we draft well?

Not trying to be difficult, but these are the double standards I have issues with.   And I used to have similar issues when certain Tomlin haters on the Steeler forum used to give credit to everyone EXCEPT Tomlin for good things and blame him for all the bad things.

Wait. Where did I say that it’s Colbert alone? I agreed Tomlin was part of it. We just know from Colbert’s recent podcast appearances and Khans comments that the two have different approaches. 

To go to the first part: this is how I feel when Tomlin takes all the blame for the losses but never gets credit for the good. 

3 hours ago, 43M said:

I get you are acknowledging Tomlin's faults in our struggles, but I have a hard time believing Tomlin hasnt had a pretty major hand in most of the players we have brought in, via free agency or the draft.   Colbert certainly had his influence, and we have already seen a different approach, so PERHAPS he had more pull than Tomlin....but at the end of the day, the credit and blame need to balance out.   If he gets credit for our successes, he should be held accountable for the failures.

 

And I don’t disagree with you much here. I feel like it would be a major structural issue if it was Tomlin calling the shots and Colbert trying to influence and if that’s the case then Tomlin needs to go. But I personally feel it’s more the other way around. 

I’ll level with you @43M - I agree with many of your takes much much more than you likely think. I feel there’s a few posters on around the Steelers area who need things to be black and white and drive this wedge where being somewhere in the middle is wrong. I feel like it makes me look like I’m picking sides when there’s focus on what people rather point out to be “right” as opposed to seeing I’m mostly in agreement but there’s more to it than the simple. I liken it to Colbert in the year he picked Kenny, and you and I were saying he should have stepped down, but we got hit with the “it’s his right to stay” and it turned by the end of that draft that you and I were “Colbert Haters” and wrong because he worked all year at scouting players. 

4 hours ago, 43M said:

He has 4 years now, and despite my annoyance, I will root for him to succeed.   I have no personal vendetta against Tomlin, nor am I a hater.    I am just skeptical he can move this team forward and keep it moving forward based on everything Ive seen from him over the years.  

Either way, he better figure out the QB issue pretty quickly....which I have a feeling will remain an issue for years to come.

I don’t think you’re a hater of his at all. To be Frank - I think your criticisms of him are valid more so than most people and it doesn’t resort to the absurd levels of hate to call for him to be fired that we’ve seen. 

[RuskieTitan]

On 6/12/2024 at 5:28 PM, Ray Reed said:

When it comes to ‘vens steelers my friend…we empty the chamber 🫡

Ray Lewis approved.

[lancerman]

On 6/10/2024 at 9:14 PM, SodeeWater_Cheezburger said:

How long has he been head coach?  Eventually, he has to start getting credit for the players he drafted, because he keeps winning.  They are not all from the previous regime.

The counterpoint is that he only won a Super Bowl 3 years after Cowher did it with largely the same core and that he hasn't won one in the last 15 years and has only been to one 13 years ago. The goal isn't to just be a B tier team for a long time that can't get over the hump.

[lancerman]

On 6/11/2024 at 2:16 PM, Soggust said:

Are playoff wins overrated?

If the goal is to win the SB, why is failing one game closer to the SB better than winning more regular season games, for example? 

Did a 14-3 team that loses in wildcard really have a worse season than a 10-7 team who loses in the divisional?

Because you play a lot of scrubs and mid teams in the regular season. Winning against playoff competition shows you how good and close you are. Dallas wins a lot in the regular season and then gets smacked around come playoff time

[AngusMcFife]

On 6/12/2024 at 6:46 PM, Soggust said:

Stretch of years without a playoff win:

Andy Reid - 9/11 (2007-2017)
John Harbaugh - 8/10 (2013-2022)
Don Shula - 9/10 (1974-1983)
Bill Parcells - 9/11 (1993-2006)
Tom Landry - 9/11 (1960-1970)
Chuck Noll - 10/12 (1980-1991)

 

On 6/12/2024 at 7:14 PM, Ray Reed said:

Good stats, definitely surprising and worth thinking about.

You guys are really shorting Harbaugh here. He won a playoff game in 2014 and in 2020.

[Soggust]

43 minutes ago, AngusMcFife said:

 

You guys are really shorting Harbaugh here. He won a playoff game in 2014 and in 2020.

That's what I'm saying.

He went winless in the playoffs 8/10 years during that stretch and those are the two he didn't.

 

1 hour ago, lancerman said:

Because you play a lot of scrubs and mid teams in the regular season. Winning against playoff competition shows you how good and close you are. Dallas wins a lot in the regular season and then gets smacked around come playoff time

I feel like this makes sense in theory but given how small edges are in the NFL, given that teams aren't consistently at their best in the playoffs, given injuries, given that bad teams beat good teams with regularity anyways, given the ridiculously small sample sizes, given stylistic mismatches etc - 

Is perceived level of competition really all that more telling with how many other factors are in play? Enough to discredit regular season success and put all of our eggs into?

I'm not sure I'm sold, but I'll give you a football because I can at least see how people think this way.

Edited June 17 by Soggust

[warfelg]

2 minutes ago, Soggust said:

given injuries

Even this one - not all injuries are created equal too.

A team losing without WR1 (top 3 in the NFL at the time), RB1 (top 3 in the NFL at the time), RB2, LT1, RT2, OC, and QB1 questionable and barely practicing is VERY different from a team that loses with RB2 on IR, a couple more backups on IR, and 1 starter questionable. So saying “these things don’t matter, every team has injuries” doesn’t tell the full picture.

[Ray Reed]

3 hours ago, AngusMcFife said:

 

You guys are really shorting Harbaugh here. He won a playoff game in 2014 and in 2020.

Im not shorting Harbaugh on anything lol, i’ve always been unequivocally pro Harbaugh even in the down years.

He’s saying he had a stretch of 10 seasons where he didn’t win a playoff game in 8 of them. 

It still pales in comparison to Tomlin’s suspect aspects of his resume imo, Tomlin has won a playoff game in just 4/17 seasons, Harbaugh is at 8/16

Tomlin’s playoff record is 8-10, Harbaugh’s is 12-10

Edited June 17 by Ray Reed

[AngusMcFife]

2 hours ago, Soggust said:

That's what I'm saying.

He went winless in the playoffs 8/10 years during that stretch and those are the two he didn't.

My bad

[SodeeWater_Cheezburger]

18 hours ago, lancerman said:

The counterpoint is that he only won a Super Bowl 3 years after Cowher did it with largely the same core and that he hasn't won one in the last 15 years and has only been to one 13 years ago. The goal isn't to just be a B tier team for a long time that can't get over the hump.

They had a quarterback then.  Ben got old, and they haven't been able to find a decent replacement.  While you could say that is on the coach, there is luck involved a lot of the time when it comes to the QB position.  IMO, what Pittsburgh is going to need to do, sooner rather than later, is find a way to move up in the draft to get a good QB prospect.  It's not all that often you can find one at #20 or later in the first round.  I think this has been Tomlin's biggest downfall, and it will be his biggest challenge to move up to the next plateau in the standings.  Retreads like Russell Wilson and Justin Fields are very likely not going to get the job done.

[BradfordSteeler]

On 6/13/2024 at 2:45 PM, El Ramster said:

Is there a structure in which we can judge Tomlin without players drafted by Bill? Like since Ben retired. I feel like being carried by a franchise QB kinda devalues anything he’s done. I feel like he’s more of the guy without Ben… What exactly is he good at? Massaging egos? Drafting insane guys and making them play? Idk. It’s been such a long time since he’s done anything. Steeler fans sounding like cowboy fans. Bringing up the past in such a present time… I’ve seen elite coaches. I don’t think Tomlin scratches any box in any criteria. Besides the old saying the grass isn’t as green!

I mean, yes? Are you arguing that these aren't part of being a good/great coach?

[Xmad]

Say what you want about Mike Tomlin but he's been employed at his job longer than any of us. Except @WebmasterI think.