Kip Smithers Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 1 hour ago, bzane said: Well, Gosh- @Kip Smithers- how do you feel about Davis Webb? How do any of you smart fans feel? I for one have never quite believed he is going to be an NFL starter. Webb's ceiling, it seems to me, is as a solid backup. The kind of a guy you can win the odd game with, but not all you want in your starter. I'm not talking franchise guy, here- just can he be an NFL starting QB? I have my doubts- his lower-drafted status, the way they're always touting his work ethic, how he follows Eli around, etc- seems like if he were going to be a good NFL QB you'd behearing about all these great throws he's making in practice. Not sure myself- wondered how others felt. @Acgott @minutemancl @w4rrior723 @GMENNATION @Gmen @Shockey1979 @YogiBiz @Go_Giants Well Landon And DRC were pretty much against us drafting a QB. He hasn’t shown anything but they obviously spent a valuable pick on a guy who they rated highly. My contention is that if that rookie is not going even start day 1 and isn’t ready then what’s the point in drafting one when you have a guy on your roster who is there to serve that purpose already? You draft a immediate impact player. Simple as that. So if that QB is not going to start right away then yes having Eli and Webb absolutely matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acgott Posted January 26, 2018 Author Share Posted January 26, 2018 43 minutes ago, Kip Smithers said: Well Landon And DRC were pretty much against us drafting a QB. He hasn’t shown anything but they obviously spent a valuable pick on a guy who they rated highly. My contention is that if that rookie is not going even start day 1 and isn’t ready then what’s the point in drafting one when you have a guy on your roster who is there to serve that purpose already? You draft a immediate impact player. Simple as that. So if that QB is not going to start right away then yes having Eli and Webb absolutely matters. I totally disagree with this line of thinking. If the Giants think the QB at #2 can be a top 5 QB in the league and just needs a few extra weeks then we should absolutely pick him. We were 3-13 last year. This isn’t a one year job. This is a 10 year job audition. If he needs those extra few weeks to be the best. Then absolutely we should still select him. Webb was drafted by the old regime. What his draft spot was will have no difference on what we do with the #2 pick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minutemancl Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 The question really is if you think there is a franchise QB in this draft that will be better than Saquon Barkley. Davis Webb should not factor into any decision for this upcoming draft. Gettleman said it best by saying least regarding Webb: "I know nothing". It was a real mess up by the interim coaching staff not playing Webb at some point at the end of the season. Drafting a QB at #2 and then Webb somehow turning out to be a franchise QB is not a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acgott Posted January 26, 2018 Author Share Posted January 26, 2018 37 minutes ago, minutemancl said: The question really is if you think there is a franchise QB in this draft that will be better than Saquon Barkley. Davis Webb should not factor into any decision for this upcoming draft. Gettleman said it best by saying least regarding Webb: "I know nothing". It was a real mess up by the interim coaching staff not playing Webb at some point at the end of the season. Drafting a QB at #2 and then Webb somehow turning out to be a franchise QB is not a problem. No RB. We need to stop with luxury picks like WR, TE, RB, CB. You win in the NFL with a QB and a front 7 Its time to rebuild the New York Football Giants from the ground up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
w4rrior723 Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 14 hours ago, bzane said: Well, Gosh- @Kip Smithers- how do you feel about Davis Webb? How do any of you smart fans feel? I for one have never quite believed he is going to be an NFL starter. Webb's ceiling, it seems to me, is as a solid backup. The kind of a guy you can win the odd game with, but not all you want in your starter. I'm not talking franchise guy, here- just can he be an NFL starting QB? I have my doubts- his lower-drafted status, the way they're always touting his work ethic, how he follows Eli around, etc- seems like if he were going to be a good NFL QB you'd behearing about all these great throws he's making in practice. Not sure myself- wondered how others felt. @Acgott @minutemancl @w4rrior723 @GMENNATION @Gmen @Shockey1979 @YogiBiz @Go_Giants I second @Acgott It's practically impossible for any of us to know what we have with Webb. However, I will say that due to Shurmurs success with many QBs of various talent levels (Keenum, Bradford, Bridgewater), Webbs chances of being an effective starter at this level are certainly increased. Webb will have an opportunity to compete for the highest level QB job available next season. Whether that's QB1 or QB2. I think I remember DRC saying he can make all the throws. Regardless, that is something we already know he can do from his video. The question is how can he lead an offense? Does he read defense well? Does he have good pocket awareness? How is his accuracy? These are questions we simply can't know until we watch him take meaningful snaps in game situations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kip Smithers Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 16 hours ago, Acgott said: I totally disagree with this line of thinking. If the Giants think the QB at #2 can be a top 5 QB in the league and just needs a few extra weeks then we should absolutely pick him. We were 3-13 last year. This isn’t a one year job. This is a 10 year job audition. If he needs those extra few weeks to be the best. Then absolutely we should still select him. Webb was drafted by the old regime. What his draft spot was will have no difference on what we do with the #2 pick I mean the entire roster is the from the whole regime and last time I checked we still have the same scouting network here who scouted Webb. So while Reese, Ross, McAdoo are gone, the guys who scouted him are still here. It’s not gonna be a few extra weeks though let’s be real. Eli isn’t gonna be bad to the point that a rookie will seem like a better option. Goff didn’t start till week 11. Wentz only started early because Bradford got traded. There is literally only one QB who is even close to ready for Day 1 and that’s Rosen and he has questionable traits. I’m just saying drafting a QB and sitting him for the year to develop when you drafted a QB the year before for that exact reason is wasteful. It’s not even really that I think Webb will be good. You better play that QB straight away if you draft him at 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acgott Posted January 26, 2018 Author Share Posted January 26, 2018 1 hour ago, Kip Smithers said: I mean the entire roster is the from the whole regime and last time I checked we still have the same scouting network here who scouted Webb. So while Reese, Ross, McAdoo are gone, the guys who scouted him are still here. It’s not gonna be a few extra weeks though let’s be real. Eli isn’t gonna be bad to the point that a rookie will seem like a better option. Goff didn’t start till week 11. Wentz only started early because Bradford got traded. There is literally only one QB who is even close to ready for Day 1 and that’s Rosen and he has questionable traits. I’m just saying drafting a QB and sitting him for the year to develop when you drafted a QB the year before for that exact reason is wasteful. It’s not even really that I think Webb will be good. You better play that QB straight away if you draft him at 2. Why does the #2 pick need to play right away? Are we going to have a miraculously Jaguars turnaround and immediately be in contention? If we have another bad season, Eli will be benched for the rookie as we were supposed to do this year. The #2 pick should have much more "potential" than Webb would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kip Smithers Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 1 hour ago, Acgott said: Why does the #2 pick need to play right away? Are we going to have a miraculously Jaguars turnaround and immediately be in contention? If we have another bad season, Eli will be benched for the rookie as we were supposed to do this year. The #2 pick should have much more "potential" than Webb would. Because when you’re picking that high you don’t draft a project per se, you draft guys who will immediately impact your team. Who nows what will happen? Nobody knows what’s gonna happen. Nobody thought we’d be in this position this time last year. The #2 pick should be much better right away and not be in a situation where’s he’s sitting just like the guy who was drafted with the intention to sit I.e. Webb. Eli is starting next year, and if there is a rookie QB there are only a couple scenarios he starts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acgott Posted January 26, 2018 Author Share Posted January 26, 2018 22 minutes ago, Kip Smithers said: Because when you’re picking that high you don’t draft a project per se, you draft guys who will immediately impact your team. Who nows what will happen? Nobody knows what’s gonna happen. Nobody thought we’d be in this position this time last year. The #2 pick should be much better right away and not be in a situation where’s he’s sitting just like the guy who was drafted with the intention to sit I.e. Webb. Eli is starting next year, and if there is a rookie QB there are only a couple scenarios he starts. There is a big difference between a project and someone that needs a few extra weeks to get used to the NFL. No one expected us to be 3-13, but many people were asking about our QBOTF. Our current QB, didn't start right away. We are not a good team. There is a strong possibility that Eli will be benched next season for good. This isn't for one game, or six games, or one season. This is a 10 year deal. We are not good. The impact our rookie will have week 1 of his first season does not matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kip Smithers Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 12 minutes ago, Acgott said: There is a big difference between a project and someone that needs a few extra weeks to get used to the NFL. No one expected us to be 3-13, but many people were asking about our QBOTF. Our current QB, didn't start right away. We are not a good team. There is a strong possibility that Eli will be benched next season for good. This isn't for one game, or six games, or one season. This is a 10 year deal. We are not good. The impact our rookie will have week 1 of his first season does not matter. Lol it’s not a case of a few extra weeks, like for real. These guys that shouldn’t really be playing in their first year. Getting used to the NFL basically implies they’re ready to start prospects who just need to get used to the speed. Nah, that’s not the case here. This time last year people were asking if the QBOTF, correct. And we addressed that with Webb who some rated quite highly. The thing is that people thought we’d be at least be a couple years away from him potentially taking over. You seem to think that there’s only one way we can get the QBOFTF, which is draft one high. If we don’t draft one this year, we’re not doomed. Does not mean we cant get a franchise QB, if Webb isn’t one. Ultimately the FO has to decipher how much these QBs that are rated highly are better than Webb and if any difference is worth investing a high pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acgott Posted January 27, 2018 Author Share Posted January 27, 2018 28 minutes ago, Kip Smithers said: Lol it’s not a case of a few extra weeks, like for real. These guys that shouldn’t really be playing in their first year. Getting used to the NFL basically implies they’re ready to start prospects who just need to get used to the speed. Nah, that’s not the case here. This time last year people were asking if the QBOTF, correct. And we addressed that with Webb who some rated quite highly. The thing is that people thought we’d be at least be a couple years away from him potentially taking over. You seem to think that there’s only one way we can get the QBOFTF, which is draft one high. If we don’t draft one this year, we’re not doomed. Does not mean we cant get a franchise QB, if Webb isn’t one. Ultimately the FO has to decipher how much these QBs that are rated highly are better than Webb and if any difference is worth investing a high pick. Yes, the Giants staff will evaluate the draft prospects and if they think there is a QB they think can be our QBOTF now or in one year they will select him. It will have nothing to do with Eli and especially not Webb. Its not a bad thing to have competition at the most important position. I want as many chances as possible to find our QBOTF. I would 100% support a QB with every single pick. We can find a QB in other areas of course, but the #2 pick provides us with the best attempt to get the best QBOTF. If they don't think one of those QBs can be the QBOTF, then they should draft the best front 7 player available. No more RB, WR, TE, OL, TE, Secondary, K, P, waterboy, cheerleader. Its a simple strategy to get us back to where we should be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kip Smithers Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 13 minutes ago, Acgott said: Yes, the Giants staff will evaluate the draft prospects and if they think there is a QB they think can be our QBOTF now or in one year they will select him. It will have nothing to do with Eli and especially not Webb. Its not a bad thing to have competition at the most important position. I want as many chances as possible to find our QBOTF. I would 100% support a QB with every single pick. We can find a QB in other areas of course, but the #2 pick provides us with the best attempt to get the best QBOTF. If they don't think one of those QBs can be the QBOTF, then they should draft the best front 7 player available. No more RB, WR, TE, OL, TE, Secondary, K, P, waterboy, cheerleader. Its a simple strategy to get us back to where we should be. And if they think Webb can be that QBOFTF? Or if they think both can be? And what do you mean not more OL or Secondary? Pat Shurmur rated Webb highly when he was in Minny last year as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acgott Posted January 27, 2018 Author Share Posted January 27, 2018 3 minutes ago, Kip Smithers said: And if they think Webb can be that QBOFTF? Or if they think both can be? Pat Shurmur rated Webb highly when he was in Minny last year as well. We shouldn't bank everything on one player picked in the mid rounds. What does rated "highly" mean anyway. Probably has the potential to be a serviceable starter? The #2 pick can be so much more than average. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzane Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 Well, gosh- I cannot claim to be any sort of expert on all this- which is why I defer to, and solicit the opinions of, the members on here who know a lot more about it than I do (meaning, most of you guys). And I know I've said this before, but, acknowledging the absolute paramount importance of their finding their next franchise QB- be that Webb, or the #2 pick, or whatever- I am not sold on either Darnold nor Rosen enough to get excited about either one being taken with that No. 2 pick. I would rather they trade down a few notches and draft a more sure-thing player, Quenton Nelson or Chubb or somebody; and take a QB prospect- Mayfield or Jackson or Allen, maybe some guy I don't even know about- late-first, early-second, with the other putative pick acquired in the trade-down. BUT- that's my inexpert guess. Which is why I seek out the opinions of you guys. And if anybody feels strongly about one of the Big 2, or thinks the trade-down scenario is foolish, why, say so. I'll be glad to listen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kip Smithers Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 21 minutes ago, Acgott said: We shouldn't bank everything on one player picked in the mid rounds. What does rated "highly" mean anyway. Probably has the potential to be a serviceable starter? The #2 pick can be so much more than average. At some point you gotta bank on somebody. It doesn’t matter what round he is picked, that’s why people fall into that trap. All that matters is if you think he is good enough? Round 1, round 7, round 12. Don’t matter. Well there was talk of him being a first rounder last year, and I imagine Minny could’ve been one of those teams. Like I said this league is built for the a quick turnaround and not having to be tied to a QB for years. If we don’t draft one this year then so be it. It’s not doom and gloom. Trust this new staff to try and develop him. And if he doesn’t work out, then yeah explore other options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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