Broncofan Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 FWIW with the TEN HC position opening up I’m really understanding the decision to keep VJ. I have zero confidence he will keep the job but with all the great HC hires last year and the huge # of HC spots open this year and the talent poor roster we now have, I don’t think a HC we’d want long term would have had us in their top 3 list let alone pick us. And it’s worse in the OC market. I mean retreads like OC Brian Schottenheimer are getting NFL jobs. That’s borderline criminal. I definitely see why we kept Musgrave. And that’s before we get into the baggage that keeping Musgrave as OC and the power that GM Elway has gets factored in. It looks more and more like our HC decision last year was the window at least until 2019. As bad as VJ was I don’t think anyone who would realistically come to us would be any better. In which case we might as well keep the right to coach the Senior Bowl lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebestever6 Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 56 minutes ago, Broncofan said: FWIW with the TEN HC position opening up I’m really understanding the decision to keep VJ. I have zero confidence he will keep the job but with all the great HC hires last year and the huge # of HV spots open this year and the talent poor roster we now have, I don’t think a HC we’d want long term would have had us in their top 3 list let alone pick us. And it’s worse in the OC market. I mean retreads like OC Brian Schottenheimer are getting NFL jobs. That’s borderline criminal. I definitely see why we kept Musgrave. And that’s before we get into the baggage that keeping Musgrave as OC and the power that GM Elway has gets factored in. It looks more and more like our HC decision last year was the window at least until 2019. As bad as VJ was I don’t think anyone who would realistically come to us would be any better. In which case we might as well keep the right to coach the Senior Bowl lol. Completley agree, I even hear Mike Munchak is the leading canidate for the Cardinals another retread. An honest question who's im worse shape the Cards or us. We both collapsed from our 2015 success. They were in the NFC title game. They also still have franchise players im David Johnson, Patrick Peterson, Tyrann Mathieu, and old wr. And they just lost their qb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broncos67 Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 I do think the coaching hires this season are lackluster. McDaniels and Patricia will never be considered here for obvious reasons. Gruden is whatever- I'm not a big fan of that move, but hey, not our team. I do think Pat Shurmur is a fantastic hire for the Giants. He would be the one guy I think is a clear upgrade over Joseph. His track record across numerous teams is quite good and he's had a big hand in turning around offenses. He had the Browns playing well until they inexplicably fired him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 2 hours ago, broncos67 said: I do think the coaching hires this season are lackluster. McDaniels and Patricia will never be considered here for obvious reasons. Gruden is whatever- I'm not a big fan of that move, but hey, not our team. I do think Pat Shurmur is a fantastic hire for the Giants. He would be the one guy I think is a clear upgrade over Joseph. His track record across numerous teams is quite good and he's had a big hand in turning around offenses. He had the Browns playing well until they inexplicably fired him. Shurmur I like - the one guy not yet hired is Matt Lafleur, who was the QB coach with Shanahan in his ATL days, and served as OC with McVay. Clearly learned from other guys, so dunno about being a HC yet, but in terms of innovative mind, I'd think he's going to be a hot name after 2018 for HC consideration with another year in the OC experience tree in LA. Thing is that Shurmur likely would take NYG over us, though. So I do kind of get why we stood pat, if this is the pool of talent they were looking at. It does underline that we missed a golden chance to hire Shanahan last year, and while I think Elway-Shanahan likely wouldn't have worked, it's pretty clear Kyle is an elite mind in terms of innovation and maximizing talent potential from his O guys. Oh well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnAngryAmerican Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 A group of the minority owners of the Steelers are going to lobby the Rooney family to fire Mike Tomlin. Strange as that sounds, I can see why. If you look at their roster top to bottom, there is a case to be made they have the most talented team in the league. It seems like Tomlin has lost control over the team, they were clearly looking past Jacksonville to New England, they did not look prepared, especially early on Sunday morning and dug themselves that 21-0 hole. Then there was that inexplicable decision to try the onsides kick with two timeouts and the two minute warning. That said, those lobbying for his termination should remember the grass is not always greener on the other side of the fence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broncos67 Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 4 hours ago, Broncofan said: Shurmur I like - the one guy not yet hired is Matt Lafleur, who was the QB coach with Shanahan in his ATL days, and served as OC with McVay. Clearly learned from other guys, so dunno about being a HC yet, but in terms of innovative mind, I'd think he's going to be a hot name after 2018 for HC consideration with another year in the OC experience tree in LA. Thing is that Shurmur likely would take NYG over us, though. So I do kind of get why we stood pat, if this is the pool of talent they were looking at. It does underline that we missed a golden chance to hire Shanahan last year, and while I think Elway-Shanahan likely wouldn't have worked, it's pretty clear Kyle is an elite mind in terms of innovation and maximizing talent potential from his O guys. Oh well. I am with you on LeFleur. I've been beating that drum for months. I like him a lot and think he would make a great coach for a young QB. That said, I was not fully aware that he doesn't have playcalling responsibilities in LA, and that gives me some pause. He may be one year away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jolly red giant Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 On 1/15/2018 at 3:22 PM, Broncofan said: FWIW with the TEN HC position opening up I’m really understanding the decision to keep VJ. I have zero confidence he will keep the job but with all the great HC hires last year and the huge # of HC spots open this year and the talent poor roster we now have, I don’t think a HC we’d want long term would have had us in their top 3 list let alone pick us. And it’s worse in the OC market. I mean retreads like OC Brian Schottenheimer are getting NFL jobs. That’s borderline criminal. I definitely see why we kept Musgrave. And that’s before we get into the baggage that keeping Musgrave as OC and the power that GM Elway has gets factored in. It looks more and more like our HC decision last year was the window at least until 2019. As bad as VJ was I don’t think anyone who would realistically come to us would be any better. In which case we might as well keep the right to coach the Senior Bowl lol. The problem is not who would replace Joseph this year - the problem was that he was the worst HC hire last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul-mac Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 If the reports of what went on at Dove Valley in the 24 hours after the Broncos season ended with a whimper are true, Elway really didn’t have a choice but to keep Vance Joseph. The players reportedly lobbied to keep Vance. I really feel like Elway pissed the locker room off multiple times this year between the cutting of TJ Ward, the anthem stuff, that weird day of practice where he gave Talib a bollocking and Harris Jr got into a fight with Isaiah McKenzie, the defense basically quitting on the team mid season and the “soft” comment that he made in mid season. Elway almost had to appease the players to stop them from completely mailing it in. If there was new HC hire now, given how popular Joseph apparently is in the locker room, I feel like the new guy would be in an impossible situation from Day 1 and it would probably lead to the end of John Elway. What I will say is that VJ kept his job by the skin of his teeth, he’s a very obvious candidate to be the first head coach fired during the season if Denver start slowly next year. Interestingly John Elway has never actually fired a coach (McDaniels was gone before he left, Fox was a mutually part ways and Kubiak walked away on his own terms) but I think Joseph might be the first one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7DnBrnc53 Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 4 hours ago, AnAngryAmerican said: A group of the minority owners of the Steelers are going to lobby the Rooney family to fire Mike Tomlin. Strange as that sounds, I can see why. If you look at their roster top to bottom, there is a case to be made they have the most talented team in the league. It seems like Tomlin has lost control over the team, they were clearly looking past Jacksonville to New England, they did not look prepared, especially early on Sunday morning and dug themselves that 21-0 hole. Then there was that inexplicable decision to try the onsides kick with two timeouts and the two minute warning. That said, those lobbying for his termination should remember the grass is not always greener on the other side of the fence. I see fans using that "grass is not always greener" terminology in dealing with several coaches (Marvin Lewis is the main one). I don't see it that way. By keeping coaches like these, you are rewarding sloppiness and irresponsibility. NFL teams should know better. I know that Bengal fans are afraid to go back to the 90's, but I would rather have a few 2-14 seasons than this crap (while you try to build something great). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebestever6 Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 23 minutes ago, paul-mac said: If the reports of what went on at Dove Valley in the 24 hours after the Broncos season ended with a whimper are true, Elway really didn’t have a choice but to keep Vance Joseph. The players reportedly lobbied to keep Vance. I really feel like Elway pissed the locker room off multiple times this year between the cutting of TJ Ward, the anthem stuff, that weird day of practice where he gave Talib a bollocking and Harris Jr got into a fight with Isaiah McKenzie, the defense basically quitting on the team mid season and the “soft” comment that he made in mid season. Elway almost had to appease the players to stop them from completely mailing it in. If there was new HC hire now, given how popular Joseph apparently is in the locker room, I feel like the new guy would be in an impossible situation from Day 1 and it would probably lead to the end of John Elway. What I will say is that VJ kept his job by the skin of his teeth, he’s a very obvious candidate to be the first head coach fired during the season if Denver start slowly next year. Interestingly John Elway has never actually fired a coach (McDaniels was gone before he left, Fox was a mutually part ways and Kubiak walked away on his own terms) but I think Joseph might be the first one. And the players are clamoring for Kirk Cousins you don't got to go after him players shouldn't run the team Elway should. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broncofan48 Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 3 minutes ago, thebestever6 said: And the players are clamoring for Kirk Cousins you don't got to go after him players shouldn't run the team Elway should. To an extent yes, but if Elway continues to upset the players, and that affects the bottom line he will lose his job. The players wanting Cousins just reinforces in my mind his ability. Whether or not it's financially feasible or smart to do so is definitely up for debate, but he can play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
germ-x Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 One thing that hasn’t been mentioned as a positive for Joseph is the fact that he did keep the locker room. Especially considering he’s only spent a year with these players and doesn’t have a history of success with them. Players don’t always do things based on the teams best interests, but a key part of coaching is having the respect and support of your players and Joseph clearly has that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebestever6 Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 26 minutes ago, germ-x said: One thing that hasn’t been mentioned as a positive for Joseph is the fact that he did keep the locker room. Especially considering he’s only spent a year with these players and doesn’t have a history of success with them. Players don’t always do things based on the teams best interests, but a key part of coaching is having the respect and support of your players and Joseph clearly has that. Way overrated especially considering our core is still the one from the superbowl minus the loss of Ward and Jackson. The bottom line is once a title was obtained that bond that was formed will never be,broken. Talib after we went on a couple game slide to the point having to win out to be 10 and 6 said if they won that week all would be well and there's still hopes of making that run. It's just that Championship mindset. It's to the point where I don't think they realize how great they were on defense. Individually some of the players on d will play,well but as a unit I don't think they've looked in the mirror. Some are like Wolfe he said this used to be a championship team now they treat,us like the Browns. If that happened in the interview doubt more has been said behind closed doors. That losing the looker room is just a portray to the media. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
germ-x Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 Just now, thebestever6 said: Way overrated especially considering oir core is still the one from the superbowl minus the loss of Ward and Jackson. The bottom line is once a title was obtained that bond that was formed will never be,broken. Talib after we went on a couple game slide to the point having to win out to be 10 and 6 said if they won that week all would be well and there's still hopes of making that run. It's just that Championship mindset. It's to the point where I don't think they realize how great they were on defense. Individually some of the players on d will play,well but as a unit I don't think they've looked in the mirror. Some are like Wolfe he said this used to be a championship team now they treat,us like the Browns. If that happened in the interview doubt more has been said behind closed doors. That losing the looker room is just a portray to the media. Vance Joseph had nothing to do with the SB. So there was no “bond” formed with Joseph based on past success with him, like a guy like Tomlin in Pittsburgh would have, for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebestever6 Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 3 minutes ago, germ-x said: Vance Joseph had nothing to do with the SB. So there was no “bond” formed with Joseph based on past success with him, like a guy like Tomlin in Pittsburgh would have, for example. This same team and defense drug John fox his last year here to make him look like he had the locker room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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