Random Packer News & Notes

[Mdpackfan22]

5 hours ago, Green19 said:

Why? They started talking extension with his agent at the scouting combine. They want Jaire on this team. Why do people think he isn’t in their future plans? Don’t let the Adams situation affect your view on this one.

I think it comes down to a few variables

 

1. Does he price himself out of Green Bay? To win in a salary cap league, the value your best players bring on the field has to match or exceed their contract. Is the contract he's demanding gonna exceed his value on the field? If so, the right move is to trade him and sign a CB or other pieces with the cap savings

2. The progression of Stokes. If Stokes takes the next step this year towards being a shut down corner, Jaire becomes expendable

3. Draft capital teams are willing to trade. If a team floats a top 10 pick, another 1st and a few mid rounders, Gute has to think long and hard about it. His track record for hitting on 1st round picks is one of the best in the league. 

4. Contracts of Jenkins and Gary are coming up. Jenkins will most likely demand top LT money and Gary top edge money. If the FO sees these two players as more valuable than Jaire, tough decisions will need to be made. Can't pay everyone 

 

 

I hope we keep Jaire, but there's a price where we need to draw the line and if he exceeds that price, Gute has proven to be a top 3 GM that can hit on talent in the draft and FA. Ship him out for multiple 1sts and sign a JC Jackson level FA. 

[skibrett15]

19 minutes ago, Packerraymond said:

We got great value for what we paid for with King last year. 

King is a fine add for where we are at.  There's no reason Rasul Douglas continues his insane pace, and Having King is a good insurance policy.  After all - why can't King be the next Rasul Douglas?

[vegas492]

14 minutes ago, Packerraymond said:

We got great value for what we paid for with King last year. 

How about for what we are paying him this year? 

What if I told you that Nixon had our highest grade on PFF last year, if I ignore snap count?

(And he had over 100)

Telling yah, he's had ample opportunity to stamp out his spot on the defense.  He's not an instinctive zone corner and he doesn't react quickly.  He's lost speed, so man to man is not something he should ever do on an island now.

He's never been shy with contact, and to that end, he gets dinged up a ton.

I'd rather roll with a younger kid than keep trotting him out there.  We clearly know what he is and what he is not.  It is time to try to be better.

[Packerraymond]

1 minute ago, vegas492 said:

How about for what we are paying him this year? 

What if I told you that Nixon had our highest grade on PFF last year, if I ignore snap count?

(And he had over 100)

Telling yah, he's had ample opportunity to stamp out his spot on the defense.  He's not an instinctive zone corner and he doesn't react quickly.  He's lost speed, so man to man is not something he should ever do on an island now.

He's never been shy with contact, and to that end, he gets dinged up a ton.

I'd rather roll with a younger kid than keep trotting him out there.  We clearly know what he is and what he is not.  It is time to try to be better.

I'd imagine the contract would look very similar as last year or he'd be signed away already.

[vegas492]

1 minute ago, Packerraymond said:

I'd imagine the contract would look very similar as last year or he'd be signed away already.

Makes yah wonder why he hasn't signed with us or anyone else yet.

[Les Punting]

2 hours ago, {Family Ghost} said:

Will Myers be competing for a job as well?

He should be. He was pretty average pre-injury and they just drafted a guy with arguably more talent. 

Tom looks pretty good when he plays C. Myers might anchor a bit better but Tom seems to have better overall skills, particularly in pass pro. 

Experience aside, the "best 5" in terms of talent are probably: DB, Runyan, Tom, Rhyan and Jenkins. 

[craig]

29 minutes ago, vegas492 said:

...No clue if Bakh or Jenkins can come back fully.  Guessing they both will.

I have much love for Nijman.  He's one that I hope we sign to a nice Lane Taylor/Lucas Patrick type deal during the season, but I fear he will play too good for that kind of deal....

One of the guard possibilities, of course, is that Nijman is doing well enough at RT that we don't bother to bench him, and instead pop Jenkins in as guard.  *IF* Nijman is perfectly average/decent at RT, and you've got Jenkins-Myers run-blocking from the middle, the run-blocking might be good enough that even good defenses need to apply resources to defending the run?  And the interior will allow very little pass pressure or pocket deformation in pass?    

Bakhti, Jenkins, Rodgers, I kinda feel like any super-bowl run needs to assume all three will be playing and playing enough to play well.  If on offense a starter like Runyan or Cobb or Watkins or Lewis gets hurt, we can still next-man-up and hope our depth guys are good enough to possibly got to the SB.  If on defense Rasul or Savage or Lowry gets hurt, we could still hope to have depth guys that could fill in and still allow a SB run.  

But if Rodgers gets disabled, there's no workaround for that.  I kinda feel like if either Bakhti or Jenkins gets disabled, there probably isn't really any SB-plausible workaround for that either.  

So I kinda accept rolling the dice on all three, and hope they all come up healthy.  As Ester says in the Bible before taking a heroic super-high-risk action, "If I perish I perish".  I kinda feel that way with Rodgers, Bakhti, and Jenkins.  

1. Premise 1:  They get and stay reasonably healthy.  If given that premise, what else should we do to the roster to perhaps provide the best chance at the SB?  
2. Premise 2:  They don't all three get and stay healthy.  If given that premise, nothing else Gute does is going to get us to the Super Bowl anyway.  "If I perish I perish".  

[Green19]

46 minutes ago, Mdpackfan22 said:

I think it comes down to a few variables

 

1. Does he price himself out of Green Bay? To win in a salary cap league, the value your best players bring on the field has to match or exceed their contract. Is the contract he's demanding gonna exceed his value on the field? If so, the right move is to trade him and sign a CB or other pieces with the cap savings

2. The progression of Stokes. If Stokes takes the next step this year towards being a shut down corner, Jaire becomes expendable

3. Draft capital teams are willing to trade. If a team floats a top 10 pick, another 1st and a few mid rounders, Gute has to think long and hard about it. His track record for hitting on 1st round picks is one of the best in the league. 

4. Contracts of Jenkins and Gary are coming up. Jenkins will most likely demand top LT money and Gary top edge money. If the FO sees these two players as more valuable than Jaire, tough decisions will need to be made. Can't pay everyone 

 

 

I hope we keep Jaire, but there's a price where we need to draw the line and if he exceeds that price, Gute has proven to be a top 3 GM that can hit on talent in the draft and FA. Ship him out for multiple 1sts and sign a JC Jackson level FA. 

He literally is what you want… they used the 18 overall pick… these are the guys you resign.

You also need to create the culture where you do what you are suppose to do …. And you get your money. You just start flipping guys… you will get a bad reputation with agents and players.

They will figure out the cap… the benefit is cap is going up and this is a second contract, not a third. So if money gets pushed out to fit everything than that’s fine given he is likely not to breakdown towards the end of the deal.

I have no concern with Jaire and his contract keeping others from getting paid. Heck they just dodged a 28 million a year deal with Adams… they have flexibility 

Edited May 3, 2022 by Green19

[Mdpackfan22]

6 minutes ago, Green19 said:

He literally is what you want… they used the 18 overall pick… these are the guys you resign.

You also need to create the culture where you do what you are suppose to do you get your money. You just start flipping guys… you will get a bad reputation.

They will figure out the cap… the benefit is cap is going up and this is a second contract, not a third. So if money gets pushed out to fit everything than that’s fine.

I have no concern with Jaire and his contract keeping others from getting paid. Heck they just dodged a 28 million a year deal with Adams… they have flexibility 

Every player has a price in which their contract exceeds their value on the field. The FO is a lot smarter than you and me and knows what number that is. If Jaire asks for more than that, I would not be surprised at all to see him traded. 

 

Now don't take this as me wanting him traded. I hope we bring him back, just not at a price that's gonna handicap the team. 

Edited May 3, 2022 by Mdpackfan22

[Donzo]

54 minutes ago, Packerraymond said:

We got great value for what we paid for with King last year. 

No... If The Packers benefited from "great value" with King's $5M contact, he wouldn't be a FA right now. He was overpaid.

For great value, the Packers got that with Campbell and Douglas.

[Chili]

Generally speaking WRs with poor college stats do not translate well to the NFL. Winfrey's college production was so mediocre that i'm actually surprised he's still on a NFL roster. He was able to land on an NFL roster because he is very athletic for his size. He's from the 2019 draft class so he has been around a little while without doing much of anything so far. I think this training camp will be make or break for him.

Looking at all the bottom of the roster WR + UDFA + Known Tryout guys. It's not a great group at all from a WR perspective. From a ST perspective, no idea.

Gafford is actually a CB turned WR, he made the switch 4 years ago whilst on the Raiders. He's actually one of the smallest WRs on our team. To be honest I think he has made a mistake switching to WR. He was actually a productive CB at Wyoming and hasn't proven a damn thing as a WR at any level. Fast though.

Taylor was Ferris State (D2) top WR for two years before suffering a season ending injury in his final year. He was quite productive despite being on a run heavy team. He managed to bounce back and turn himself into a somewhat decent special teamer with the Packers.

Danny Davis is the only one to have come from a big time college program and Wisconsin was clearly a run heavy team. He put up extremely mediocre stats but he was still the "best" WR on his team. There's a lot of recent photos where he doesn't look like he's in the best of shape. His tape doesn't move the needle for me.

It sounds like Keke Chism and Anthony Turner are with us on a tryout. Both are similar in terms of 2021 production which to be honest is mediocre. Chism was with Missouri Tigers (SEC) and they built their offence around RB Tyler Badie (good player btw). Chism was one of their more productive WRs. Turner was too on a run heavy team from a very obscure division and the WR load was shared among him and his teammates. I would say Chism is the more likely of the two to succeed in their tryout just because he played in the SEC and he looks like in good shape.

A common theme seems to keep cropping up. It looks we're targeting WRs from run heavy teams. Run heavy teams uses blocking WRs which produces the player profile we want, tall and fast. It's like receiving ability is actually secondary to blocking and i'm not sure I agree with that scouting approach. I would rather look for highly productive WRs with the profile we want and then teach them to block.

Out of everybody, Chris Blair is the only one who has actual solid production at a higher ranked college (D1). In his senior year at Alcorn he had 5 games of 100+ yards with 7 TDs over the course of the season.

If there's anyone who might challenge the drafted rookie WRs for any resemblance of playing time it will be Blair and Taylor because

1. they had actual production in college,
2. has familiarity with the system and
3. been through the Packers strength and conditioning program.

Winfrey is the wild card. He ticks both 2 and 3.

As for ST, Taylor still has the advantage for now as he has made the roster twice in the last two years and carved out a major role on ST units.

[Mr Bad Example]

5 hours ago, smetana34 said:

Our running back group is pretty strong with Jones and Dillon. But if something happens to them both we could be in trouble

Obviously Gute messed up, should've drafted a stud to be our 3rd stringer. 

[Mr Bad Example]

5 hours ago, n8ghee said:

What position wouldn’t be in trouble if the top two players got hurt?

WR because they're all non-1st round trash. 

[coachbuns]

3 hours ago, craig said:

1. I had kinda anticipated that we'd use a draft pick on secondary before the end of round 4.    
2. I suspect they might still add a variably anti-awful vet?  Our friend Kevin King still is out there, no?  Adding an anti-awful secondary player is much more probable than adding a WR.
3. I feel like, superficially at least, we are thinner and more injury-vulnerable at secondary.  Last year we began with Stokes on the bench in reserve, plus we had Sullivan.  (And some posters still even hoped that Josh Jackson, who'd played extensively the previous season, might be anti-awful.)  
4. But Gute knows his bench guys better than I do.  That he let Sullivan go, when he got paid barely above minimum, suggests Gute didn't consider Sullivan's injury-insurance value to be very significant.  
5. They did add Nixon, the ST/CB guy.  I've assumed he's ST-only, but maybe they think he's actually OK from scrimmage, in case next-man-up becomes necessary?  
6. I'd love to imagine that they've liked what they've seen and believe in several from the  Innis Gaines/Vernon Scott/Sean Davis pool, or the legendary Kabion Ento or Jamal-Charles?  Would be fun if they've actually hit on one or several of those guys? 
7. I was surprised that Black was a depth guy that they used all the time; but then they let him go.  If some of these others are more worthy, why didn't MLF play them instead of Black?  
8. The Quay pick might reduce the need for extra safety usage?  Maybe he'll take the snaps that Black played, not Scott or Gaines?      

Thinking there will be some guys to pick through when players are let go to get down to roster limits.

[Green19]

Everyone see in Peter King’s article where the Rams requested to play Green Bay in London?

looks like the rams have a fear of lambeau and the cold weather…

So Gb is in their heads it appears