NFL News & Notes

[skibrett15]

I'd just rather have Graham and Allison than Jordy and Kendricks.

Once they cut him, I think the wrong call was made not to work something cheap out.

Edited November 2, 2018 by skibrett15

[Packerraymond]

Yeah I'm not even looking to a Jordy vs Cobb anymore. I wish we'd have cut Cobb with Jordy. Absolutely no doubt in my mind Adams, MVS, EQ, Allison, (maybe a budget WR to be #5) plus a guy like Mathieu or Trent Murphy would have made us a better team than we would be with Cobb or Jordy being old and expensive on the roster.

[MacReady]

Just now, {Family Ghost} said:

Some of what you say may be true, but is Nelson wearing down again this year like he did last year?  I am thinking MVS and ESB are going to be really good down the stretch.  Them getting a ton of reps now will pay dividends later in the season.  As for Cobb vs. Nelson ... I dunno .. Cobb was instrumental in the win against the Bears.  Without him that day that may have been another loss.  

Like I've said, Nelson is not a 1200 yards, 12 TD receiver anymore.  I get that.  Peppers was not a 15 sack EDGE when we signed him, and he wasn't even a 10 sack player when we chose not to re-sign him (even though he actually got 10 sacks that year).  Nelson absolutely has huge value to a team like us though.  Think Danny Ammendola in the playoffs that one year.  Even if MVS/ESB turn out to play extremely well down the stretch, Nelson still has a LOT of value for us.  Even if he was surpassed in the depth chart. 

Think Donald Driver in 2010.  He was surpassed by younger talent.  Then think of how he came up big in the playoffs in spite of younger options being ahead of him. 

It's good for teams to have young talent.  It's also good for teams who have Aaron Rodgers to have veterans they trust. 

[MaryTsraining3s]

8 minutes ago, Outpost31 said:

This isn't even logical.  Keeping Jordy would not have made us absolutely have to keep him next year. 

Additionally, there were a dozen options.  Cut Cobb instead of Nelson.  Restructure Jordy's contract instead of cutting him.  Cut him and give him a fair offer to come back. 

It's not as cut and dry as keep Nelson for 15 million this year and next. 

I'm not suggesting Jordy Nelson is a 1200 yard, 12 TD receiver.  I'm saying it's foolish - and damn foolish - to act like Jordy Nelson wouldn't have had a huge impact for the Packers this season.  He would have. 

It's not a coincidence how bad we are in the red zone right now. 

Two years in Aaron's time here (excluding his injury seasons) have we been below the 11th most efficient team in the red zone.  2015 (Jordy's missed year) and now.  Act like that's a coincidence all you want, it's not a coincidence. 

He was owed $10 million this year. So you would have been fine paying him? HUGE impact? I disagree. Matter of fact, I would almost go as far as saying he could have had a negative impact to an extent. Rodgers tended to key in on just him. He has little explosion left in those legs, resulting in him getting little to no separation, Rodgers pulling his eyes off of downfield and taking sack after sack. They cut him and offered him another deal, he thought he was worth more so he went elsewhere.

Other question: Are you someone who has been dogging on HaHa for his lack of effort? (Honest questions I can't remember if you are or not). But if so, lets not let Jordys lack of effort get a pass from last year towards the end of the year. I am sure you'd say they are two completely different situations, in which I would probably quit replying. Once you step on that playing field, effort is effort.

[Leader]

4 minutes ago, Packerraymond said:

Yeah I'm not even looking to a Jordy vs Cobb anymore. I wish we'd have cut Cobb with Jordy. Absolutely no doubt in my mind Adams, MVS, EQ, Allison, (maybe a budget WR to be #5) plus a guy like Mathieu or Trent Murphy would have made us a better team than we would be with Cobb or Jordy being old and expensive on the roster.

Tru dat (perhaps) but cutting both pre-draft would have put enormous stress on the FO to cash in on "this year" WRs to pair with AR - or perhaps increase their offers to one/many FA WRs. It made sense to keep Cobb around. Regardless - due to injury, rookie maturation/production and circumstances - the WR rotation you envision is happening in real time. I cant (and wont) say the FO had this all planned out - but its happening none the less.

[TheOnlyThing]

43 minutes ago, {Family Ghost} said:

Gute should have bit the bullet and cut Cobb as well ... neither was worth their pay and you have to figure he could have found a suitable free agent replacement for a lot less dough.   

I agree Cobb has not been worth his contract for some time now and said so last season.

However, I believe there is a method to Gute's madness in not getting rid of both Randall and Jordy.

Remember, Gute is radically changing the way the Packers go about their business in comparison to his predecessor and too much change too quickly can overwhelm those used to doing things a certain and different way.

There are no doubt some within the organization (including the locker room) who are just as shocked as some of the fans on this board that Gute would move on from a popular player like Jordy, trade away former 1st round picks like Randall and HaHa, and cut draft picks like he has.

Those same folks will undoubtedly be less shocked when Gute lets long-time Packers like Cobb and Clay walk after this season without a fight and aggressively courts free agents from other teams.

I have a feeling this upcoming offseason will be just as, if not more, interesting than this pat one when it comes to the transformation of the roster and have no doubt that the 2019 roster will be both significantly better and radically turned over from the one Gute inherited.

Edited November 2, 2018 by TheOnlyThing

[MacReady]

Just now, MaryTsraining3s said:

He was owed $10 million this year. So you would have been fine paying him? HUGE impact? I disagree. Matter of fact, I would almost go as far as saying he could have had a negative impact to an extent. Rodgers tended to key in on just him. He has little explosion left in those legs, resulting in him getting little to no separation, Rodgers pulling his eyes off of downfield and taking sack after sack. They cut him and offered him another deal, he thought he was worth more so he went elsewhere.

No, that's not how it went.  We offered him an insulting deal.  James Jones said it.  No number was mentioned, but you can't tell me that if Jordy was offered 5 million or even 6 million he wouldn't have come back. 

So it goes like this...

Nelson > Cobb. 

If we were gonna flat cut someone, Jordy's trust with Rodgers was greater than Cobb's "fresher legs."

We had to cut one of them, we should have cut Nelson.

After we cut him, we should have offered him 5-6 million.  Yes, I think he's absolutely worth that.

You may well be right with Rodgers keying in on him too much, but it wouldn't have mattered.  Rodgers would be better right now in the red zone, and at least he would be throwing it to Nelson instead of throwing it away this year.

Quote

Other question: Are you someone who has been dogging on HaHa for his lack of effort? (Honest questions I can't remember if you are or not). But if so, lets not let Jordys lack of effort get a pass from last year towards the end of the year. I am sure you'd say they are two completely different situations, in which I would probably quit replying. Once you step on that playing field, effort is effort.

No, I wasn't.  And what lack of effort out of Jordy? 

[MaryTsraining3s]

8 minutes ago, Outpost31 said:

No, that's not how it went.  We offered him an insulting deal.  James Jones said it.  No number was mentioned, but you can't tell me that if Jordy was offered 5 million or even 6 million he wouldn't have come back. 

So it goes like this...

Nelson > Cobb. 

If we were gonna flat cut someone, Jordy's trust with Rodgers was greater than Cobb's "fresher legs."

We had to cut one of them, we should have cut Nelson.

After we cut him, we should have offered him 5-6 million.  Yes, I think he's absolutely worth that.

You may well be right with Rodgers keying in on him too much, but it wouldn't have mattered.  Rodgers would be better right now in the red zone, and at least he would be throwing it to Nelson instead of throwing it away this year.

No, I wasn't.  And what lack of effort out of Jordy? 

You don't think Rodgers trusts Cobb??? I guess that is what I take out of the comment I made bold. 

Jordy absolutely disappeared last year when Rodgers got hurt. You are right about his redzone production the first 5 games, incredibly productive. However, Jordy did absolutely nothing after that, even worst towards the end of the year. You can tell there isn't a lot of effort being exerted from him. My point was tied in with people complaining about Haha's effort should have been irritated with the lack of effort Jordy was showing too. It's pretty irrelevant at this point now.

[{Family Ghost}]

2 minutes ago, MaryTsraining3s said:

You don't think Rodgers trusts Cobb??? I guess that is what I take out of the comment I made bold. 

Jordy absolutely disappeared last year when Rodgers got hurt. You are right about his redzone production the first 5 games, incredibly productive. However, Jordy did absolutely nothing after that, even worst towards the end of the year. You can tell there isn't a lot of effort being exerted from him. My point was tied in with people complaining about Haha's effort should have been irritated with the lack of effort Jordy was showing too. It's pretty irrelevant at this point now.

I thought his effort was shaky down the stretch.  He was playing like he was injured, frustrated, or just not all that interested.  I think he had a lot of drops as well.  I don't think of Nelson as a loafer, but I recall being disappointed in his play after Rodgers went down.  It made me think that the only reason for his production was #12

[Shanedorf]

1 hour ago, Packerraymond said:

I wish we'd have cut Cobb with Jordy. Absolutely no doubt in my mind Adams, MVS, EQ, Allison, (maybe a budget WR to be #5) plus a guy like Mathieu or Trent Murphy would have made us a better team than we would be with Cobb or Jordy being old and expensive on the roster.

There's no doubt in your mind today, but in March...it was a completely different story. This offense and the way AR runs it require some high-end football IQ and the number of college WRs that can assimilate it by September is quite limited. Its interesting to note that the WR furthest along is the one who re-wrote the entire playbook by hand so he could speed up the learning process.

Its also important to have the vet presence to help the youngsters along and Cobb was useful in that capacity during the transition- especially in the slot role. He knows how AR thinks. The Packers also had to consider the response from QB1 -  who didn't enjoy losing Jordy. Losing both of them would not have gone over well.

We'd all have been happier with a Trent Murphy addition, but GB is actually ahead of previous seasons in terms of sacks and pressures. As I posted earlier:

Green Bay Packers are number 3 in the league in sacks/game and number 2 in sack percentage

Pettine has manufactured sacks/pressures from other players and he noted in his presser the limitations of depending on the OLBs for pressure - because the OL knows where they are coming from and can adjust accordingly. That's why he wants to move Clay around. By scheming a free rusher, Pettine felt that he'd be more successful than by counting on the Packers OLBs to consistently beat the OTs. It would be great to have Trent Murphy, no argument there. And the recent pursuit of Fowler means they see the value there too.

[vegas492]

2 hours ago, Leader said:

Thats cool. I mentioned Allison cause I think the team decided to move on from Jordy cause they felt they had a suitable "next guy up" already on the roster - i.e. Allison.
They moved on one/some FA WRs - but came up empty - and ultimately their decision (as I saw it...) has been proven correct: Allison was outperforming Nelson. The young guys - the infusion of new talent and comp at the position was badly needed IMO and the talent evals seem to be working out. 2 out of 3 at least are showing they can stick at this level.

We can agree to disagree that Allison would outperform Nelson if Nelson were still on the team.

[vegas492]

2 hours ago, Leader said:

 

I feel, strongly, that Zach Kruse doesn't understand football.  Things like this only make that more obvious.  He.  Is.  Terrible.

[vegas492]

2 hours ago, Leader said:

Addressing this again with a consideration.......

A fairly large part of the GBPs offense (for good or bad....thats a different discussion) has been the scramble drill - where everybody out on a pattern runs around like its a Chinese fire drill. I guess most teams have similar - fall back procedures - but the Packers (read: AR) seem to force their WRs do a fair amount of it. I dont know if the FO ever made the Cobb/Nelson one up comparison - but it would seem odd if they didnt give it some consideration at least and their decision / choice seems clear. It may just be that based on game tape they felt Jordy had less of this "extra running around" in his legs than Cobb - who (in all likelihood) they plan to move on after this season - or bring back at a reduced salary. 

I'm disagreeing with you a lot...and I apologize for that.  While I understand your opinion, Jordy still has a huge catch radius, especially compared to a guy like Cobb.  As far as "extra running around" goes, Jordy uses the sidelines better than anyone in the league and Rodgers knows where to put the ball for him, without hesitation.

Again...I'm okay with the decision.  Something had to be done there, but it wasn't like it was one step back, two steps forward.  This has been a one step backwards receiving season as highlighted by the red zone woes.  (That step forward should be next year, then maybe we will be even.  Two steps forward in two years when those receivers have matured.)

[Shanedorf]

Just now, vegas492 said:

We can agree to disagree that Allison would outperform Nelson if Nelson were still on the team.

Jordy had the psychic connection with AR and Allison hasn't achieved Total Consciousness yet. So Jordy clearly gets the nod there and AR commented on it on the failed pass to MVS that was almost picked off. AR said that he and Nelson: " can run that play in their sleep"

The other comment I made before was that Jordy should be doing quite well in September - November. But old legs show up in December-January and if we're going to make the comparison, that's probably a better time to do it because allegedly that's where the Packers concern came from. If they stuck with Jordy, it would take reps and game time away from the guys they needed to step up at the end of the season.

As far as the Red Zone stuff, GB brought in Graham to handle that aspect of the job. Young guys to handle the deep stuff, Graham to be a threat in the RZ

[vegas492]

Agree.  There is a failure there to scheme Graham in the red zone.

As far as December legs...I think we all knew that Cobb wouldn't last much past September either.