NFL News & Notes

[AlexGreen#20]

1 minute ago, Mr. Fussnputz said:

I'm coming around to the idea that the 36 year old Rodgers isn't ever going to be the 26 year old Rodgers. Time to restyle the offense to accommodate Rodgers' high football IQ and lesser arm. To that end, I would buck up the interior O-line with some good run blockers, draft a monster RB like Barkley, and build a smash mouth offense predicated on the running game and a short passing game. No need to add more than a B-level FA WR, or re-sign Cobb. Then back that up with a shut down defense. Back to the old black and blue division!

Because that's how all the playoff teams are doing it!!!

Wait, nope, not at all. 

How can people talk about a scheme being outdated and then advocate for a return to "SMERSH MOUF FOOTBAW"?

That's not the direction the talent is being developed in college. That's not the direction league rules are guiding offenses. That's not the way any kind of analytics suggests moving.

Football is basketball on grass now. Live it and embrace it.

 

[incognito_man]

40 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

Because that's how all the playoff teams are doing it!!!

Wait, nope, not at all. 

How can people talk about a scheme being outdated and then advocate for a return to "SMERSH MOUF FOOTBAW"?

That's not the direction the talent is being developed in college. That's not the direction league rules are guiding offenses. That's not the way any kind of analytics suggests moving.

Football is basketball on grass now. Live it and embrace it.

 

I dunno. I'd say that Seattle, Baltimore, Dallas and Chicago are close to this. 

They also have running QBs  too, however.

[JBURGE]

43 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

Because that's how all the playoff teams are doing it!!!

Wait, nope, not at all. 

How can people talk about a scheme being outdated and then advocate for a return to "SMERSH MOUF FOOTBAW"?

That's not the direction the talent is being developed in college. That's not the direction league rules are guiding offenses. That's not the way any kind of analytics suggests moving.

Football is basketball on grass now. Live it and embrace it.

 

A lot of people are unable to come to terms with the NFL changing to be much more offensive oriented. Have a couple elite skill position players on offense, and you need speed. 

[AlexGreen#20]

4 minutes ago, incognito_man said:

I dunno. I'd say that Seattle, Baltimore, Dallas and Chicago are close to this. 

They also have running QBs  too, however.

Look at the defenses of those teams that are pulling them to wins. Those aren't teams winning on offense. They're top 10 defenses.

[incognito_man]

14 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

Look at the defenses of those teams that are pulling them to wins. Those aren't teams winning on offense. They're top 10 defenses.

Right. That's what he was saying

[skibrett15]

3 hours ago, Outpost31 said:

Scheme doesn't matter, it's all about execution.

I'm getting really tired of reading these "extremest" opinions.  It's not just @Outpost31 but you get called out when you're the loudest; that's how it works.

Scheme matters.  Execution Matters.  Coaching is not just scheme.  Coaching is also execution.

Players are not just execution.  Players are scheme/matchup influencers as well.  How your offense design plays around your highest execution players matters.  Can you run the full route tree?  Are you a threat on those routes even if you "can" run them (Cobb Corner route... LMAO)?  Are you fast enough to run the outside zone running play and stress the defense horizontally?  Do you have enough athletic enough lineman to block out in space even if your team has that fast back to stress them?

Scheme and game plan are different.  Scheme is your meat and bread.  Game Plan is your toppings.  In-game play calling is your spread.

 

And then.  After all that... you can be perfect and still probably top out at a 80-90% chance of winning any given game.  Because the NFL is tough and all the teams have exceptional players and coaches in certain spots.  It just really means so little that the Rams lost to the Eagles.  The Rams are still a top 2 team in the NFC, and the Eagles are still a slightly underrated 0.500 team.

[vegas492]

1 hour ago, Mr. Fussnputz said:

I'm coming around to the idea that the 36 year old Rodgers isn't ever going to be the 26 year old Rodgers. Time to restyle the offense to accommodate Rodgers' high football IQ and lesser arm. To that end, I would buck up the interior O-line with some good run blockers, draft a monster RB like Barkley, and build a smash mouth offense predicated on the running game and a short passing game. No need to add more than a B-level FA WR, or re-sign Cobb. Then back that up with a shut down defense. Back to the old black and blue division!

I think that the O-line needs help.  And I think that your point has merit.  But...I don't see a Barkley type out there.  And even if there were, I don't want to spend a first on a RB.

As the NFL game evolves to more of a "fast break" style.....I think you accommodate this Aaron Rodgers with a better offensive line.  Grab another RB somewhere and pair him with Jones.  I see the line being more important than the back.  At least right now.  

[Arthur Penske]

1 hour ago, Mr. Fussnputz said:

I'm coming around to the idea that the 36 year old Rodgers isn't ever going to be the 26 year old Rodgers. Time to restyle the offense to accommodate Rodgers' high football IQ and lesser arm. To that end, I would buck up the interior O-line with some good run blockers, draft a monster RB like Barkley, and build a smash mouth offense predicated on the running game and a short passing game. No need to add more than a B-level FA WR, or re-sign Cobb. Then back that up with a shut down defense. Back to the old black and blue division!

I am surprised people are starting to truly doubt Rodgers. He had a "down" year. It happens when you're working with 3 rookie WRs, injured Oline, Injured Knee, Suspended RB1, TE1 hurt. He's obviously not going to be as athletic as he ages, but I think he'll come back strong last year. Remember the down years Favre had before his late career resurgence? 4-12? It had a lot to do with the talent/coaching around him. Hopefully Gutey fixes that ASAP.

[Sasquatch]

Rodgers has regressed - the question we seem to be debating is why.

• Is it because of his injuries - from previous seasons (cumulatively) and this season?
• Is it because up until the first game this season, he basically hadn’t played any meaningful snaps since he broke his collar-bone last year?
• Is it because it’s typical for all QB’s in their mid to late 30’s to begin to slide?
• Is it because of the young receivers around him?
• Is it because his Oline has once again been in tatters?
• Is it because of the scheme and/or coaching staff?

I suppose it could be a combination of all these things, and they could be clues in answering the bigger, more important question than “why”, which is, will he regain his confidence, his mojo, and the form which made him able to overcome all of the aforementioned in the past?  

He probably isn’t able to carry this team on his back moving forward.  Some of the above can be improved upon or remedied (stay injury-free, stronger protection up front, more reps with young receivers and a new weapon or two, new coaches and scheme), some cannot (impact and effect of multiple injuries over his career, his age).

The positive impacts that the aforementioned remedies could have on Rodgers and the team leave me feeling optimistic.  But we must accept the fact that there are no guarantees, and I won’t be shocked if Rodgers doesn’t ever fully regain his infamous accuracy and efficiency.  As such, Rodgers himself will need to come to terms with a few things, and as Vic Ketchum used to say, we may need to adjust our expectations.  This doesn’t mean settling for mediocrity - it simply means we might need to expect differently from Rodgers moving forward.  Perhaps that means relying more on Rodger’s game experience and intellect than his physical gifts?  Let’s continue to enjoy the ride and see where it leads us!

[Mr. Fussnputz]

52 minutes ago, Sasquatch said:

Rodgers has regressed - the question we seem to be debating is why.

• Is it because of his injuries - from previous seasons (cumulatively) and this season?
• Is it because up until the first game this season, he basically hadn’t played any meaningful snaps since he broke his collar-bone last year?
• Is it because it’s typical for all QB’s in their mid to late 30’s to begin to slide?
• Is it because of the young receivers around him?
• Is it because his Oline has once again been in tatters?
• Is it because of the scheme and/or coaching staff?

I suppose it could be a combination of all these things, and they could be clues in answering the bigger, more important question than “why”, which is, will he regain his confidence, his mojo, and the form which made him able to overcome all of the aforementioned in the past?  

He probably isn’t able to carry this team on his back moving forward.  Some of the above can be improved upon or remedied (stay injury-free, stronger protection up front, more reps with young receivers and a new weapon or two, new coaches and scheme), some cannot (impact and effect of multiple injuries over his career, his age).

The positive impacts that the aforementioned remedies could have on Rodgers and the team leave me feeling optimistic.  But we must accept the fact that there are no guarantees, and I won’t be shocked if Rodgers doesn’t ever fully regain his infamous accuracy and efficiency.  As such, Rodgers himself will need to come to terms with a few things, and as Vic Ketchum used to say, we may need to adjust our expectations.  This doesn’t mean settling for mediocrity - it simply means we might need to expect differently from Rodgers moving forward.  Perhaps that means relying more on Rodger’s game experience and intellect than his physical gifts?  Let’s continue to enjoy the ride and see where it leads us!

Absolutely! That's all I was trying to say. We are committed to Rodgers for some time. Let's build the offense around his strengths instead of his weaknesses (e.g., aging arm). I would like nothing more than to see a resurgent Rodgers zipping passes on a rope into 6 inch windows, but I'm beginning to doubt we will ever see that again, either because of age, injury, or both. So let's build an offense around his "his game experience and intellect." He's more than capable of winning some more super bowls in the right offense, and with the help of a top defense.

[Sasquatch]

3 minutes ago, Mr. Fussnputz said:

Absolutely! That's all I was trying to say. We are committed to Rodgers for some time. Let's build the offense around his strengths instead of his weaknesses (e.g., aging arm). I would like nothing more than to see a resurgent Rodgers zipping passes on a rope into 6 inch windows, but I'm beginning to doubt we will ever see that again, either because of age, injury, or both. So let's build an offense around his "his game experience and intellect." He's more than capable of winning some more super bowls in the right offense, and with the help of a top defense.

I agree with you, with one slight exception.  Most of what I’ve read points to Rodgers still having a very strong arm - which is usually the first sign an aging QB is in decline.  I believe his problems are more in his head than his arm, and whatever struggles he has going on inside his head are contributing to poor mechanics, rushed throws, throw-aways and ditched balls, or balls thrown at his receivers feet in situations where he absolutely didn’t need to got there.  What’s that all about?  This is the biggest difference I’ve seen in Rodgers since the moment he broke his collarbone.  Is he too hung up on not throwing interceptions?  Are his mechanical problems a result of his lost confidence in himself?  Why is he not seeing open receivers?  I could go on and on, but I don’t think it’s his arm.

Like you, I worry that we’ll never see that Rodgers again, but for different reasons.  I do think a new scheme and a new mindset by Rodgers could tap more into his knowledge of the game and be less reliant upon him hitting those narrow windows or low percentage throws that we used to sit back in awe of on a regular basis.  Perhaps getting back into rhythm will also get his head right and his confidence back.  And if it happens soon, he has plenty of arm strength to get back to making those throws we’re used to seeing, before Father Time really does intervene.

[Mr. Fussnputz]

19 minutes ago, Sasquatch said:

I agree with you, with one slight exception.  Most of what I’ve read points to Rodgers still having a very strong arm - which is usually the first sign an aging QB is in decline.  I believe his problems are more in his head than his arm, and whatever struggles he has going on inside his head are contributing to poor mechanics, rushed throws, throw-aways and ditched balls, or balls thrown at his receivers feet in situations where he absolutely didn’t need to got there.  What’s that all about?  This is the biggest difference I’ve seen in Rodgers since the moment he broke his collarbone.  Is he too hung up on not throwing interceptions?  Are his mechanical problems a result of his lost confidence in himself?  Why is he not seeing open receivers?  I could go on and on, but I don’t think it’s his arm.

Like you, I worry that we’ll never see that Rodgers again, but for different reasons.  I do think a new scheme and a new mindset by Rodgers could tap more into his knowledge of the game and be less reliant upon him hitting those narrow windows or low percentage throws that we used to sit back in awe of on a regular basis.  Perhaps getting back into rhythm will also get his head right and his confidence back.  And if it happens soon, he has plenty of arm strength to get back to making those throws we’re used to seeing, before Father Time really does intervene.

You might be exactly right. Lack of confidence in his surgically repaired collarbone may be the issue. He has a metal plate and 13 screws. That might be a psychological issue that needs work. Don't mean to sound snarky. I'm serious about how his injury might be playing with his mind. The whole mind-body connection thing might be in play. 

Edited December 17, 2018 by Mr. Fussnputz
additional ideas.

[Sasquatch]

3 minutes ago, Mr. Fussnputz said:

You might be exactly right. Lack of confidence in his surgically repaired collarbone may be the issue. He has a metal plate and 13 screws. That might be a psychological issue that needs work.

A lot of things point to psychological issues for sure.  I’ll just say I and many others can’t conclusively say that his metal plate and 13 screws have contributed to his regressive mechanics - especially those having to do with issues related to his footwork, and him throwing off his back foot instead of stepping into his throws - which correlates more strongly to his knee injury than his collarbone.  Fact is, he hasn’t lost any zip on the ball - he’s regressed in accuracy, which I think has more to do with being rushed and unsettled, and therefore less confident (again, psychological). He’s also lost his ability to see the field, for whatever reason.  And I honestly think he’s put way too much emphasis on being too perfect, which is another psychological issue he needs to work out.

[Mr. Fussnputz]

Just now, Sasquatch said:

A lot of things point to psychological issues for sure.  I’ll just say I and many others can’t conclusively say that his metal plate and 13 screws have contributed to his regressive mechanics - especially those having to do with issues related to his footwork, and him throwing off his back foot instead of stepping into his throws - which correlates more strongly to his knee injury than his collarbone.  Fact is, he hasn’t lost any zip on the ball - he’s regressed in accuracy, which I think has more to do with being rushed and unsettled, and therefore less confident (again, psychological). He’s also lost his ability to see the field, for whatever reason.  And I honestly think he’s put way too much emphasis on being too perfect, which is another psychological issue he needs to work out.

I agree. All the perfectionist I know have a fear of failure. I suspect Rodgers is a perfectionist. 

[Sasquatch]

4 minutes ago, Mr. Fussnputz said:

I agree. All the perfectionist I know have a fear of failure. I suspect Rodgers is a perfectionist. 

Exactly!  Let’s look at this closer.  We know Rodgers is above average intellectually and that he’s driven by perfection - he demands it of himself and those around him.  Add on the weight of being the highest paid player in the world and thinking to yourself everyday that you have to go out and prove yourself over and over again that you’re worthy - so you think you have to be solution to all of the vagaries around you.  Add on to that the knowledge that your body isn’t as stable/strong as it used to be, that you have trust issues (with coaches, players, schemes), and you can see yourself regressing but are unable to pull back because your salary and your ego dictate that you must be the solution!

All of this just adds up to a mental and psychological instability - a Petri dish for dysfunction to ferment.  I’ve said it in here before that I think he needs a sports psychologist to work these issue out.  

Let’s use golf as an analogy.  Some of the greatest players in the game, with the best mechanics and confidence, go through slumps/yips, which can mentally destroy confidence.  If you’re standing over your ball with any doubt at all, there’s a significant chance you’ll miss the shot.  You won’t miss all of them (plug Rodgers in here), but that lack of self confidence - that doubt - will make it more likely for you to miss.  Confidence is everything.  You might doubt your physical capabilities, even if they aren’t a material issue, and BAM - you’ve just manifested enough doubt to being prone to mistakes.

Maybe Rodgers is doubting his knee will hold up, or that his collarbone has affected his throwing motion, when in fact they aren’t a material factor but a mental one?  He’s got some work to do for sure, and much of it is in his confidence and in his head, in my opinion.