Brewers sign Lorenzo Cain

[NewAge]

5 minutes ago, GSUeagles14 said:

I asked you a question and you posted an article that doesnt really answer that. Comparing him to a guy like hunter (and a few others in that group) is silly, he doesnt have that kind of bat. He can still be a decent player if/when he loses his defensive and base running value, but youre likely getting a 1.5-2 wins out of him if we assume his bat stays above averageish.  and thats a fairly large assumption as some of his offensive production is tied into his speed as well, we'll likely see his BABIP decrease as he ages.

 

 

The general baselines for me for guys who age well are:

- well rounded skillset
- tall
- good eye
- hits the ball in the air a lot
- athletic (high stolen bases early in career correlates well)
- durable

Or, in other words, be Curtis Granderson. 

Cain meets a good number of these. Even as he loses some speed he'll still have plenty for the average player and has enough secondary skills to fall back on. He won't be prime Lorenzo Cain but he'll be a fine player if he stays healthy.

[beekay414]

Just for you fellas @NewAge @Thelonebillsfan

[CAS22]

Stearns doing work.  Least bit surprised.

[GSUeagles14]

4 minutes ago, NewAge said:

The general baselines for me for guys who age well are:

- well rounded skillset
- tall
- good eye
- hits the ball in the air a lot
- athletic (high stolen bases early in career correlates well)
- durable

Or, in other words, be Curtis Granderson. 

Cain meets a good number of these. Even as he loses some speed he'll still have plenty for the average player and has enough secondary skills to fall back on. He won't be prime Lorenzo Cain but he'll be a fine player if he stays healthy.

I dont really disgaree i guess, i just it depends on expectations. Are the brewers expecting  cain to be a 4 win guy and really help the team win or are they paying him 80 mil to be a consistent, although not game changing player. And even then, cain desont have grandys bat/pop to fall back on when he start to ages. im not making this move if it turns out its the latter, but only time will tell.

[Thelonebillsfan]

43 minutes ago, bkobow05 said:

Just for you fellas @NewAge @Thelonebillsfan

[NewAge]

2 hours ago, bkobow05 said:

Just for you fellas @NewAge @Thelonebillsfan

[tom cody]

Very good pickup for the Brewers here, they had a great day yesterday. Yelich + Cain should equal a NL wild card. 

[ramssuperbowl99]

11 hours ago, hrubes20 said:

Unquestionably? I would actually argue the opposite. Fowler was considerably more productive in his walk year than Cain. Fowler also didn’t get that contract in such a weak market.

I really don’t like Milwaukee giving 5 years to a 32 year old who has derived a lot of his value from CF defense, but has seen that OF defense already start to decline. I figured some team would get Cain for a steal in this crappy market, not pay what the going rate for a 32 year old is.

Lorenzo Cain has been 4th among all MLB OFers in WAR over the past 3 years. I think the defensive decline is somewhat overstated given that he's still one of the fastest players in the MLB. Has his route running gotten worse? His arm? I don't know if this is another positioning thing (like Fowler) or what the deal is.

Here's the baseball savant data on Cain's speed btw:

I'll take the over on Cain's defensive prediction.

[LuckyNumber11]

Cain defensively is still a force, his issue is that he can't continue to be a center fielder. He can't carry the load in center anymore because his issue is that he pushes himself too hard and he gets hurt. It would be best if Yelich were put in center and Cain were in right, it would help preserve his longevity for sure. Any decline you have seen (Which has not been major) has been largely due to injury. That being said, if he is given quality chances for rest, and is put in right, there is no reason why he shouldn't be able to have a productive tenure in Milwaukee

[Packerraymond]

12 minutes ago, LuckyNumber11 said:

Cain defensively is still a force, his issue is that he can't continue to be a center fielder. He can't carry the load in center anymore because his issue is that he pushes himself too hard and he gets hurt. It would be best if Yelich were put in center and Cain were in right, it would help preserve his longevity for sure. Any decline you have seen (Which has not been major) has been largely due to injury. That being said, if he is given quality chances for rest, and is put in right, there is no reason why he shouldn't be able to have a productive tenure in Milwaukee

I'm sure between Domingo/Phillips whoever we keep we will want to give as many ABs as we can. Braun and Cain will be given ample time off.

[hrubes20]

2 hours ago, ramssuperbowl99 said:

Lorenzo Cain has been 4th among all MLB OFers in WAR over the past 3 years. I think the defensive decline is somewhat overstated given that he's still one of the fastest players in the MLB. Has his route running gotten worse? His arm? I don't know if this is another positioning thing (like Fowler) or what the deal is.

Here's the baseball savant data on Cain's speed btw:

I'll take the over on Cain's defensive prediction.

It appears FG has his arm cratering last year.  His DRS had been falling every year before that, though.  Defensive value is fairly fascinating to me, as guys who still maintain their speed can still see their defensive values plummet to pedestrian levels, like Juan Pierre, Curtis Granderson, or to a lesser extent, Kenny Lofton.  Should be a fun case to follow. 

 

[beekay414]

4 minutes ago, hrubes20 said:

It appears FG has his arm cratering last year.  His DRS had been falling every year before that, though.  Defensive value is fairly fascinating to me, as guys who still maintain their speed can still see their defensive values plummet to pedestrian levels, like Juan Pierre, Curtis Granderson, or to a lesser extent, Kenny Lofton.  Should be a fun case to follow. 

 

I think he'll be fine in Right. Yelich may not be as good a CF as he is LF but he's more than fine there so we can take advantage of that and let Cain age gracefully in RF.

[hrubes20]

11 minutes ago, bkobow05 said:

I think he'll be fine in Right. Yelich may not be as good a CF as he is LF but he's more than fine there so we can take advantage of that and let Cain age gracefully in RF.

But even if you buy the declining defensive metrics, Cain is still superior to Yelich in CF.  Yelich has always been below average out there.  I get wanting to spell Cain more often with whoever of Broxton/Phillips is still on the team, but he probably should be in CF most days.  It makes all the sense in the world to move him to a corner spot in 2-3 years when Braun's contract is up though.  

[beekay414]

Just now, hrubes20 said:

But even if you buy the declining defensive metrics, Cain is still superior to Yelich in CF.  Yelich has always been below average out there.  I get wanting to spell Cain more often with whoever of Broxton/Phillips is still on the team, but he probably should be in CF most days.  It makes all the sense in the world to move him to a corner spot in 2-3 years when Braun's contract is up though.  

Yeah but you're running into the "do you move Braun to RF" scenario again. He was horrible there in 2014 but was merely below average in 2015. He's far better in LF than RF. Who knows. We'll see what Stearns and company have in store.

[hrubes20]

7 minutes ago, bkobow05 said:

Yeah but you're running into the "do you move Braun to RF" scenario again. He was horrible there in 2014 but was merely below average in 2015. He's far better in LF than RF. Who knows. We'll see what Stearns and company have in store.

That's fair.