lavar703 Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 24 minutes ago, aceinthehouse said: When Minny misses playoffs & we get in, are we still gonna debate who the better QB is? Alex is a winner & Cousins is a loser. I'll give you Dan Fouts & I'll take Theismann, Rypien or Doug Williams when it matters. I dislike Kirk more than just about anyone else on here and there is no way Smith is better. Kirk is way more advanced as a passer. Smith stands there and just waits to get hit or runs right into a sack. I don’t understand why calling a spade a spade is wrong? Smith has played like crap. Just the way it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 24 minutes ago, lavar703 said: I dislike Kirk more than just about anyone else on here and there is no way Smith is better. Kirk is way more advanced as a passer. Smith stands there and just waits to get hit or runs right into a sack. I don’t understand why calling a spade a spade is wrong? Smith has played like crap. Just the way it is. This is not a true reflection of every single play. Sure it happens at time, but it happens for all QBs at times. Sure, Alex has missed some opportunities, but you can’t tell me for one second that other QBs don’t too, even the elite ones. How many times from 2014-2017 did Cooley, beat reporters and others go over the All-22 and point how many plays Kirk left on the field that would’ve been for big gains and possibly TDs? It was every week. I became and still am a big Kirk Cousins fan once he became our starting QB in 2015 but even I would admit he left things out there that he should’ve hit and may have won us another game or two in each season he was our starter. That being said, at the same time I don’t expect a Qb to be a robot and hit every open receiver every play and never make a mistake. Kirk also held onto it too long at times, didn’t throw it away, or threw it away and it got intercepted. Other times Kirk would hold onto it too long, took a hit and fumbled. Kirk had 5 fumbles lost all of last season, so far this season through 6 games he has 5 fumbles lost and today Buda Baker recovered Kirk’s fumble and returned it for a TD. Alex lost 1 fumble in 15 games played last year and he’s only lost 1 fumble through 5 games this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 57 minutes ago, aceinthehouse said: When Minny misses playoffs & we get in, are we still gonna debate who the better QB is? Alex is a winner & Cousins is a loser. I'll give you Dan Fouts & I'll take Theismann, Rypien or Doug Williams when it matters. This just isn’t a true statement. 1. Teams win games, not just any one player. So even if we did make the playoffs and the Vikings didn’t, that would be a reflection of our team being better and not just the QB, if Alex did even play better than Kirk. So far the separation between the two is not as far as some think. 2. Cousins isn’t a loser. Even if you go by his record as a Redskins starter from 2015-2017, it’s about even and that was with an awful running game and awful defense. W/o Kirk and the passing game those 3 years we would’ve definitely had a losing record. 3. Again, in your last point the Redskins had better overall teams than the Chargers did back then, that doesn’t necessarily mean that any of those QBs you mention we’re actuallya better QB than Dan Fouts or that they were better than Dan Marino for example. If the Redskins had had those QBs they probably would’ve won another Super Bowl or two or at least been in contention for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaiphoon Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 54 minutes ago, turtle28 said: I didn’t say you could win by just throwing it down the middle. I said that you do that to hopefully pull the defense up and hope that a defender makes a mistake and you can get a big play. This happened with the Crowder play but Alex just barley missed him for a TD. That was a big play, and one he wants to have back. If a defender doesn’t come up though or doesn’t make a mistake, I don’t see how you’re going to beat an opponent by just throwing into double coverage. They are not going to pull a defender up in that situation. 7 minutes to go. Up 2 scores. They are going to spy the RB snd blanket deep. Which is what happened. They are perfectly happy with you taking what they are giving to you. That's the defense dictating to you. It's not how you win Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaiphoon Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 10 minutes ago, turtle28 said: This just isn’t a true statement. 1. Teams win games, not just any one player. So even if we did make the playoffs and the Vikings didn’t, that would be a reflection of our team being better and not just the QB, if Alex did even play better than Kirk. So far the separation between the two is not as far as some think. 2. Cousins isn’t a loser. Even if you go by his record as a Redskins starter from 2015-2017, it’s about even and that was with an awful running game and awful defense. W/o Kirk and the passing game those 3 years we would’ve definitely had a losing record. 3. Again, in your last point the Redskins had better overall teams than the Chargers did back then, that doesn’t necessarily mean that any of those QBs you mention we’re actuallya better QB than Dan Fouts or that they were better than Dan Marino for example. If the Redskins had had those QBs they probably would’ve won another Super Bowl or two or at least been in contention for them. I ran out of likes so consider this a +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aceinthehouse Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 I love how everyone assumes we would be 5-0 with cousins as our QB. You know, since Alex Smith sucks. The Vikings were 1 game away from the SB last yr with C. Keenum. Yet, I keep hearing how our team is as good as the Vikings team, which obviously explains our 3-2 record. Shouldn't the Vikings be 6-0 right now, since he's so awesome. They have the SAME TEAM as last yr - Keenum +cousins. We are in 1st place in the East after 6 weeks with a 1st year QB in Alex. who obviously sucks,right? Vikings are in 3rd place with obvious HOFer Kirk Cousins. Alex is a winner & Kirk is a loser How many times do I need to post this, before it sinks in? Every post, till you believe me apparently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKnight82 Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 1 minute ago, aceinthehouse said: I love how everyone assumes we would be 5-0 with cousins as our QB. You know, since Alex Smith sucks. The Vikings were 1 game away from the SB last yr with C. Keenum. Yet, I keep hearing how our team is as good as the Vikings team, which obviously explains our 3-2 record. Shouldn't the Vikings be 6-0 right now, since he's so awesome. They have the SAME TEAM as last yr - Keenum +cousins. We are in 1st place in the East after 6 weeks with a 1st year QB in Alex. who obviously sucks,right? Vikings are in 3rd place with obvious HOFer Kirk Cousins. Alex is a winner & Kirk is a loser How many times do I need to post this, before it sinks in? Every post, till you believe me apparently. Alex Smith has never won anything either, so you can keep saying it but it means nothing until he does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaiphoon Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 9 minutes ago, aceinthehouse said: I love how everyone assumes we would be 5-0 with cousins as our QB. You know, since Alex Smith sucks. The Vikings were 1 game away from the SB last yr with C. Keenum. Yet, I keep hearing how our team is as good as the Vikings team, which obviously explains our 3-2 record. Shouldn't the Vikings be 6-0 right now, since he's so awesome. They have the SAME TEAM as last yr - Keenum +cousins. We are in 1st place in the East after 6 weeks with a 1st year QB in Alex. who obviously sucks,right? Vikings are in 3rd place with obvious HOFer Kirk Cousins. Alex is a winner & Kirk is a loser How many times do I need to post this, before it sinks in? Every post, till you believe me apparently. You continue to equate team wins and losses with how good a QB plays individually. How many times do I need to post this, before it sinks in? Every post, till you believe me apparently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 13 minutes ago, aceinthehouse said: I love how everyone assumes we would be 5-0 with cousins as our QB. You know, since Alex Smith sucks. The Vikings were 1 game away from the SB last yr with C. Keenum. Yet, I keep hearing how our team is as good as the Vikings team, which obviously explains our 3-2 record. Shouldn't the Vikings be 6-0 right now, since he's so awesome. They have the SAME TEAM as last yr - Keenum +cousins. We are in 1st place in the East after 6 weeks with a 1st year QB in Alex. who obviously sucks,right? Vikings are in 3rd place with obvious HOFer Kirk Cousins. Alex is a winner & Kirk is a loser How many times do I need to post this, before it sinks in? Every post, till you believe me apparently. Everyone, I counted one guy? And that one guy is a definite Alex hater. Again, teams win games. The Vikings have had Dalvin Cook deal with injuries all year and their best DL Griffen have a mental illness that has cost him half the season so far, and may cost him his career. The Vikings are missing those two players immensely. They can’t run the ball, their OL is awful. They can’t protect the QB - much like our OL has struggled to protect Alex at times - and without Griffen they aren’t getting consistent pressure on the QB which is making their D worst. So, unless you’re going to analyze the entire team/game, you’re not going to get a true honest reflection of either the Vikings or the Redskins this season. Sadly, in this forum, we have posters who are guilty of both for each team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 50 minutes ago, Thaiphoon said: They are not going to pull a defender up in that situation. 7 minutes to go. Up 2 scores. They are going to spy the RB snd blanket deep. Which is what happened. They are perfectly happy with you taking what they are giving to you. That's the defense dictating to you. It's not how you win I’m confused. The opponent is going pull a defender in what situation? When what happens? It seems to me second half of this post is exactly what I’ve been saying happened. And if that happens, there’s little opportunities to throw deep. You’re opinion is that Alex should’ve thrown deep against this defense anyways. Well, if he had it wouldn’t have mattered, there probably would’ve been more incompletions, probably an INT and if you don’t have the ball you can’t score. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaiphoon Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 51 minutes ago, turtle28 said: I’m confused. The opponent is going pull a defender in what situation? When what happens? Turtle, you REALLY need to pay attention to what you write. This is your statement: Quote .I said that you do that to hopefully pull the defense up and hope that a defender makes a mistake and you can get a big play. Quote It seems to me second half of this post is exactly what I’ve been saying happened. And if that happens, there’s little opportunities to throw deep. No. You're saying to take what the defense is giving you. And I'm saying that the DEFENSE will let you take what they are giving you. Because they WANT you to sit there and throw short. Knowing that its the way they prefer for you to lose the game Quote You’re opinion is that Alex should’ve thrown deep against this defense anyways. Well, if he had it wouldn’t have mattered, there probably would’ve been more incompletions, probably an INT and if you don’t have the ball you can’t score. 25% of the outcomes are negative. Its no secret that one of the things that had GB on their heels was throwing it deep and getting PI. We drew more PI in one quarter against them than we had the previous 2 games combined. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 Interesting evaluation here: Cousins vs Carolina in Dec of 2016: 315 yds, 0 TDs, 1 int & 1 fumble lost Alex Smith vs Carolina today: 163 yds, 2 TDs & zero turnovers Dec of 2016 we lost. Today we won, which would you rather have? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Draper Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 Kirk isn’t a loser and neither is Smith. The stupidity of either not trading Kirk or signing him long term in 2017 is undeniable.brucejay made a huge and terrible mistake- the kind that’s get people fired in a competent organization. But hey if one of these same people trades three picks for RG and didn’t get fired it’s bevsuse we are an incompetent moronic organization. But it’s really time to move on. No way anyone can reasonably argue the Redskins are better off with Smith instead of Kirk, so doing so is a waste of time. I wish both Kirk and Smith the best, but my sense is Kirk is in a much more appealing place than Smith is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aceinthehouse Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 You win games, when you run the football. use the clock, not turn the ball over. Cousins did none of that for us. In fact, we were throwing the ball @ a ridiculous rate because Cousins is so awesome. We were a 1-dimensional football team. We also never let our defense rest, because of this. Alex is very good WHEN he has a good RB. Why? Because he plays smart & conservative. Doesn't turn the ball over very often at all. AP is an old HOFer behind Alex. This is why we are winning & will continue to do so. Old school football! The way it used to be played. Were also doing enough, to let our Defense play with inspiration. Instead of gassed by the all pass quick 3 & outs. Would we win with cousins & Peterson? No, because Cousins has to throw 35 passes a game & Peterson would never see the ball. Cousins IS the better passing QB. No doubt. Alex is the better fit for the Washington Redskins & how we should play going forward. If we want any chance at the Playoffs, that is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lavar703 Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 1 hour ago, turtle28 said: Interesting evaluation here: Cousins vs Carolina in Dec of 2016: 315 yds, 0 TDs, 1 int & 1 fumble lost Alex Smith vs Carolina today: 163 yds, 2 TDs & zero turnovers Dec of 2016 we lost. Today we won, which would you rather have? I’m not exactly sure what that has to do with anything but please continue on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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