2018 Vikings Draft Prospects - Offensive Line

[vikestyle]

56 minutes ago, Kparty15 said:

Patrick Robinson hasn’t been anything special.  I remember hearing that we were targeting Tebow that year.

You’re right you can’t guarantee that the player you like will be there, but the point that I’m trying to make is that there might be multiple players that the team likes.  There’s a possibility that the majority of Daniels, Wynn, Hernandez, Price, Ragnow, etc are all there at our pick.  

I mean that's true, but wouldn't it be likely that we like one of those guys quite a bit better than the others? I mean if you are convinced that one is a multiple pro bowl player, and the others are solid long term starters, is it worth it to risk losing the pro bowler for an extra 4th round pick to move back 5 spots? 

[Robb_K]

38 minutes ago, vikestyle said:

I mean that's true, but wouldn't it be likely that we like one of those guys quite a bit better than the others? I mean if you are convinced that one is a multiple pro bowl player, and the others are solid long term starters, is it worth it to risk losing the pro bowler for an extra 4th round pick to move back 5 spots? 

For a SURE extra 3rd Rounder vs. only a slight chance the best player of that group will be there, and some chance that he won't be as good as we thought.  I don't believe it's worth losing that opportunity for a 4th Rounder.  A 3rd Rounder is MUCH, MUCH more valuable than a 4th rounder at the same position in each round.

[Kparty15]

2 hours ago, vikestyle said:

I mean that's true, but wouldn't it be likely that we like one of those guys quite a bit better than the others? I mean if you are convinced that one is a multiple pro bowl player, and the others are solid long term starters, is it worth it to risk losing the pro bowler for an extra 4th round pick to move back 5 spots? 

It may only be an extra 4th, but there are teams like the Colts and Browns that are loaded up on 2nd and 3rd round picks that may be willing to pay a little more to ensure they move up.  Whose to say that whatever player we take with our extra pick doesn’t turn out to be a pro bowler?  I mean Pat Elflein and Danielle Hunter we’re both 3rd round picks and I could easily envision them making the pro bowl in the future.  I would rather have one of the top OGs AND a top RB, CB, or DT instead of just an OG.

[Robb_K]

4 hours ago, Kparty15 said:

It may only be an extra 4th, but there are teams like the Colts and Browns that are loaded up on 2nd and 3rd round picks that may be willing to pay a little more to ensure they move up.  Whose to say that whatever player we take with our extra pick doesn’t turn out to be a pro bowler?  I mean Pat Elflein and Danielle Hunter we’re both 3rd round picks and I could easily envision them making the pro bowl in the future.  I would rather have one of the top OGs AND a top RB, CB, or DT instead of just an OG.

Possible, but much, much more difficult to find a "gem" (underrated) player in the 4th Round than in The 3rd.  That's a long way to fall.  It's strictly numbers.  However much knowledge a team's scouts have, it's proportionally more difficult to have "their guy" (a player they like and want) fall from where his talent and potential SHOULD lie in the draft to the bargain position, where they may or may not be able to grab him.  It's a risk to move backwards. down lower, hoping to still be able to get him there.  Somewhere along that line going backwards, the risk of losing him, plus the risk of him not becoming what you think he could be, will outweigh the potential utility of getting him.  It's an instinct with me.  I'd risk it to get an extra 3rd, but not to get an extra 4th.  Excellent players fall to The 3rd far more often than to The 4th.  It's NOT a linear relationship.  Good players of starting NFL calibre are picked in ALL Rounds.  But it gets exponentially more difficult together them each round you move down.  That is, unless I am absolutely certain that the difference in potential of my 1st choice at my original position in Round 1 or 2 (trading Round) has only ever so slightly more value than the 2nd choice I might have to settle for, IF my guy doesn't make it to the lower position I get in that round in return.  If there are one or more players that are about equal to my choice as a fallback, and it is a very deep draft, with numbers guaranteeing that several good players will still be on the board at that point in The 4th, I might accept the 4th Rounder.  But, I don't think this year's situation is such.  I COULD see moving a few (even several) picks down to get the extra 3rd,

[vikestyle]

7 hours ago, Kparty15 said:

It may only be an extra 4th, but there are teams like the Colts and Browns that are loaded up on 2nd and 3rd round picks that may be willing to pay a little more to ensure they move up.  Whose to say that whatever player we take with our extra pick doesn’t turn out to be a pro bowler?  I mean Pat Elflein and Danielle Hunter we’re both 3rd round picks and I could easily envision them making the pro bowl in the future.  I would rather have one of the top OGs AND a top RB, CB, or DT instead of just an OG.

I mean yeah I'd rather have one of the top guys at every position if we could. I definitely understand what you're saying though. I guess I'd just rather secure the guy I'm most sure is gonna be a good pro, rather than get greedy and try end up with a player I'm not as excited about. However, it is Spielman's style to go for the quantity of draft picks, so it would make sense to trade back.

[CriminalMind]

15 hours ago, Kparty15 said:

But what if an OL player that you like is still available, but will also still be available 5-10 picks later?  I don’t understand your reasoning because it is very likely there will not be 1 single best player available at 30, but there may instead be a handful of players that are all very similarly talented.  This draft is has a very deep pool of players that are late 1st to 2nd round talents.

I wasn't implying a 5-10 pick moveback to hopefully still land an OL (you really like) .... what if they think the remaining OL are just bottom of round 2 candidates (starting potential, not day 1 starters). I would hold true to the board and select another position group, instead of reaching a full round before.

[Kparty15]

9 hours ago, Robb_K said:

Possible, but much, much more difficult to find a "gem" (underrated) player in the 4th Round than in The 3rd.  That's a long way to fall.  It's strictly numbers.  However much knowledge a team's scouts have, it's proportionally more difficult to have "their guy" (a player they like and want) fall from where his talent and potential SHOULD lie in the draft to the bargain position, where they may or may not be able to grab him.  It's a risk to move backwards. down lower, hoping to still be able to get him there.  Somewhere along that line going backwards, the risk of losing him, plus the risk of him not becoming what you think he could be, will outweigh the potential utility of getting him.  It's an instinct with me.  I'd risk it to get an extra 3rd, but not to get an extra 4th.  Excellent players fall to The 3rd far more often than to The 4th.  It's NOT a linear relationship.  Good players of starting NFL calibre are picked in ALL Rounds.  But it gets exponentially more difficult together them each round you move down.  That is, unless I am absolutely certain that the difference in potential of my 1st choice at my original position in Round 1 or 2 (trading Round) has only ever so slightly more value than the 2nd choice I might have to settle for, IF my guy doesn't make it to the lower position I get in that round in return.  If there are one or more players that are about equal to my choice as a fallback, and it is a very deep draft, with numbers guaranteeing that several good players will still be on the board at that point in The 4th, I might accept the 4th Rounder.  But, I don't think this year's situation is such.  I COULD see moving a few (even several) picks down to get the extra 3rd,

Whether round pick we get in a trade back doesn’t necessarily lock us into picking at that spot, but it still gives us more ammunition to move around.  If we are only able to get a 4th from a trade back we could package that with some of our own picks to move back into the 2nd or 3rd and get whichever guy we’re targeting.

[CriminalMind]

My mock today:

R1 P30 - James Daniel, OG\C - Iowa

R2 P30 - Dallas Goedert, TE - SDS

R3 P30 - Donte Jackson, CB - LSU

 

[Heavydan85]

6 hours ago, CriminalMind said:

My mock today:

R1 P30 - James Daniel, OG\C - Iowa

R2 P30 - Dallas Goedert, TE - SDS

R3 P30 - Donte Jackson, CB - LSU

 

Not a fan.  I think there needs to be a OT in 1-3 AND I wouldn't be mad to see an OG in that same range.  

[CriminalMind]

4 hours ago, Heavydan85 said:

Not a fan.  I think there needs to be a OT in 1-3 AND I wouldn't be mad to see an OG in that same range.  

That was the goal... But it Didn't work out that way with how the board fell. Main thing was still to take "good players" who may step into starting roles the following year (in this case potentially replacements for Rudolph & Waynes if they are cap casualties from retaining Richardson, Barr, Hunter, Diggs & a free agent OL to replace Remmers in 2019)

[gopherwrestler]

14 hours ago, CriminalMind said:

My mock today:

R1 P30 - James Daniel, OG\C - Iowa

R2 P30 - Dallas Goedert, TE - SDS

R3 P30 - Donte Jackson, CB - LSU

 

I love people are starting to enjoy James Daniel. He’s far and above a better player and more advanced than Ragnow and Price....

Right now he’s the only pure interior lineman I would take round 1.

 

[Heavydan85]

10 hours ago, CriminalMind said:

That was the goal... But it Didn't work out that way with how the board fell. Main thing was still to take "good players" who may step into starting roles the following year (in this case potentially replacements for Rudolph & Waynes if they are cap casualties from retaining Richardson, Barr, Hunter, Diggs & a free agent OL to replace Remmers in 2019)

I get that. You were being as much realistic as optimistic about who would be there. I'm still going to hold out hope that McGlinchey fall magically lol.  If someone like Jamarco Jones falls to us in the fifth I'd be happy with that draft. I just see RT as the most open for a rookie to play.

[Kparty15]

10 hours ago, gopherwrestler said:

I love people are starting to enjoy James Daniel. He’s far and above a better player and more advanced than Ragnow and Price....

Right now he’s the only pure interior lineman I would take round 1.

 

James Daniel is going to be really good, but I’ve been leaning more towards Price and Ragnow because I’m hoping for a trade back.  I don’t know if Daniel will be that much drastically better than Price who will probably be available 15 picks later.

[Kparty15]

7 hours ago, Heavydan85 said:

I get that. You were being as much realistic as optimistic about who would be there. I'm still going to hold out hope that McGlinchey fall magically lol.  If someone like Jamarco Jones falls to us in the fifth I'd be happy with that draft. I just see RT as the most open for a rookie to play.

It would be awesome if McGlinchley fell to us in the 1st, but I’m still a little wary of most of the 1st and 2nd round OT’s because all of them have a potential bust factor.  I’m perfectly content with leaving Reiff at LT so maybe a mid round RT would be a good way to go.  I’ve been seeing guys like Jamarco Jones and Alex Cappa falling into the 5th round.  I think both of those guys would be good RT’s and both offer swing tackle potential.  I think Jones was underrated at Ohio State.  If Cappa can continue to match his college production then he might be one of the most exciting OL I’ve watched in a long time.  Cappa might have written the book on how to pancake block people.

[Krauser]

For the IOL, my current favorite is Ragnow. PFF loves him, which is usually a good sign for OL: https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/draft-frank-ragnow-the-forgotten-superstar-of-the-2018-nfl-draft

If they can trade down from #30 and get Ragnow mid-2nd, or even wait and get him at #62, that'd be great. He can play C or either guard spot. Ragnow-Elflein-Remmers would be a very solid IOL. 

...

Not sure what they're going to do at tackle. The reports are that Remmers is moving to guard, and that's where I'm pencilling him in for now. 

Rashod Hill had a few decent games, but also several bad ones, including both playoff games. He's only 25, and hadn't really had a chance to start before, so maybe they think he can improve? 

Or maybe Tom Compton plays RT? He was pretty bad at RT for Washington in 2014, then played well there in limited snaps in 2015 (in front of Cousins). In 2016, he played a few snaps rotationally for the Falcons at LT. Then he played RG for the Bears in 2017 and was OK except for one terrible game against the Saints. 

So scenario 1 is Compton or Hill at RT, Remmers at RG. Given the choice, I'd expect/hope Hill to beat Compton out for the job. 

Scenario 2: they draft a guard -- or an C who can push Elflein to guard -- they could leave Easton as a starter at LG and push Remmers back out to RT. 

This seems most likely to me if only because it leaves the not-that-bad 2017 OL intact except for the rookie replacing Berger. 

Scenario 3: they draft a tackle who can start year one. That's going to be difficult. 

1st round: maybe Connor Williams lasts to #30 with the injury history? I think he'd be a great pick. Doubt McGlinchey or Wynn make it that far, and the NFL reportedly sees Wynn as a guard. The only other day 1 NFL starter might be Orlando Brown, but I bet his terrible combine (not just his lack of athleticism but his lack of effort) will cross his name off the Vikings board.

I think #30 is too early to take any of the other tackles. I've not been impressed with what I've read about the 2nd tier of the tackle draft class -- they all seem to have major limitations in terms of technique (which makes sense, otherwise they'd be 1st round tackles). Even if they take a guy like that on day 2 -- they might as well plan to start Hill or Compton.

I know Alex Cappa met with the Vikings, usually projected to rounds 4-5. Mayock said he has "nasty tape" and he has great hair. Arms are only 32"+ and he played Div II, and struggled at times at the Senior Bowl. 

I liked watching Desmond Harrison doing movement drills at the combine, but he got kicked off the Texas team for failing drug tests and he only weighs 280. 

PFF grades are promising for Tyrell Crosby (Oregon, probably 2nd round) and Jamarco Jones (Ohio State, probably 3rd round). 

What do you guys know about the 2nd and 3rd tiers of the tackle class?