The Coaches Want Rosen at 1?, & Other Serious Browns Draft Rumblings

[Mind Character]

On 3/7/2018 at 1:39 AM, Mind Character said:

But seriously it's simple:

1. My b.i.l. used to work for the Giants organization for a long time.

2. He was canned along with others during the personnel dept. turnover when there was a regime change.

3. He still talks regularly with people there that respected his time there.

4. They let him know what their worldclass spycraft dept. has heard coming out of Berea as Cleveland's decision is very important to them.

5. There are a handful of people on the chopping block in Cleveland and one of them is flapping their gums so much angling for future employment/payback that people in the spycraft dept at the Giants have gathered the info they're pitching...vetted it...conveyed it to decision makers on the Giants... per their job...of which a lot of the NYG personnel staff believe it to be true while the head decision maker (Gettleman) and his assistant exec believe it not to be true and just to be misinformation.

6. Info is told to me just like the info on Bears Trading for Trub last year...I come on here an post it in disgust 

@AkronsWitness 

Nope. I have no sources inside the Browns, and if you'd actually read what I wrote you'd have picked tbat up (although I dont blame u as it was long).

[Rod Johnson]

On 3/6/2018 at 8:41 PM, NudeTayne said:

Great post. I keep wondering about AJ McCarron as well and whether or not he is promised upon signing that we won't grab a QB high(?).  And I'm also curious what Kizer will look like after that brutal rookie year. really comes down to how we see Ogbah moving forward. Chubb looks like he could be great. This makes me feel better about the idea of grabbing QB at 1 and whomever is left between Chubb and Barkley, assuming we don't trade down. I like the idea of trading down to six if see Nelson at LT.

Yeah I'm stuck somewhere in between about picking a QB with 1/4.  Last season was such a disaster in every facet of our team it made Kizer being bad seem inevitable, but the fact he was so, so terrible makes it obvious he's got to be our QB2 at best.  McCarron is going to only be 28 years old this season so if we sign him it doesn't seem like there is a glaring need to spend a high pick on QB, but then we are hedging our bets on AJ which seems foolish.  I can see the chips falling either way...getting 2 high rated non-QB prospects to support whoever is playing seems like the surest way to compete immediately.  That can so obviously blow up in our face though.  If we sign no QB before the draft or get a McCown/Bradford it will be obvious we are spending the 1/4 on a QB.  If Nick Foles comes in I think it's even less likely we draft one than if we grabbed McCarron.

Actually come to think of it we might as well deduct Kizer entirely from the conversation.  It really sucks because I am still intrigued by his ability, but we have too much opportunity to upgrade onto a surer thing this off-season to justify him in our plans going forward.  He is neither close to the best QB right now nor has he made a good enough case that he can be the best QB going forward.  I've been slower to come to grips with this than basically everybody else.  He has to forcefully re-insert himself into the conversation this summer.

I really like Ogbah and think that we help keep him fresh and healthy if we have another guy that's rotating in like Chubb.  We have so many holes on our team though.  What Joe Thomas does is kind of the elephant in the room but it seems like that will be a need we will have to address soon no matter what.  It sucks to think about though, nobody really wants to comes to term with the idea one of these high picks will be spent on an offensive lineman.  Also I think a trade down is definitely in the cards, which like picking an offensive lineman, is intuitively detestable.

[carl_sjunior]

 

Do you guys enjoy this god awful photoshop of our next QB?

I was reading today about how people that aren't around Rosen every day would think he was a brash jackass that questions every thing, but Tony Dungy was sourced in the article saying that that is exactly how Peyton Manning was,  that he would question everything, but only because he wanted to know why to do everything. And Matt Ryan is very similar as well. So I'm kind of feeling like Rosen is the safe pick here. I'm giving him a lot more thought. 

[Rod Johnson]

3 hours ago, Mind Character said:

My feelings stem from the thought that I dont view the Kessler, RG3, Wentz, Watson decisions like most on this board to the point where it suggests that those decision were all pure evidence of Hue's incompetence as a evaluator of talent THEREFORE anything he or any of his coaches (Haley, Zampese, etc) have to say in terms of player evals means nothing & shouldnt be listened to that much.

Responding to your entire post but deleted much of it to reduce the scrolling required by our friends.

I completely agree with your sentiments about this.  It greatly confuses me the common assertion that Hue has totally failed as a QB evaluator here, it seems to come from the desire to fire Hue while disregarding what seems more likely.  Every time I see those sentiments I want to demand sources that confirm that Hue definitively made the decision to pass Wentz/Watson/even Goff.  It's unnecessary because there are plenty of other things that emphasized Hue's incompetence outside of the QB room.

How the QB room was formed over the past 2 seasons and Hue's change of attitude in pressers reflects to me that it was not totally of his own making.

1. On 2016 QB decisions: When Hue gave a strong endorsement of Kessler in the post-draft conference it can easily be construed to reflect something outside of his own decision making.  This was a new regime that seemed dead set on not selecting a QB high and trading back.  This is the Sashi draft strategy that many of you here ENDORSE.  It is hypocritical to applaud Sashi for acquiring assets and denigrate Hue for allowing a prospect go by.  That decision was mutually exclusive, and the philosophy seems to have reflected what Sashi wanted.

In that light it seems like the endorsement of Kessler was made by somebody who was hamstrung from the onset to pick from marginal prospects.  The fact Kessler was Hue's guy out of a pile of garbage does not mean that it made any sense for Hue to outright say that to the media.  Hue was being a company man, working with his FO, and giving his confidence to a young player that he had absolutely no reason to marginalize when questioned about.  I think Hue's total disregard for Kessler in 2017 shows that his confidence in him in actuality was OBVIOUSLY not close to what he told us.  He really had no option to act otherwise though.  Imagine how terrible it would have been for Hue to say "he's obviously mediocre" about any player you just selected hours ago.  This is an empty criticism of him.

The Earth moving was also a silly hyperbole about RG3, however the same logic can be applied it as the Kessler case.  He was doing the entire organization a solid by endorsing what occurred over what he may have wanted.  RG3 may have been his 'guy' but it was his guy with the constraints that the FO may have imposed on him.  Ultimately it is Jimmy Haslem who knows and judges how decisions are made within; how they are portrayed in the media can be radically different.

2. On 2017 QB decisions: Wasn't it reported that Hue was very high on Watson and even texted him to 'be ready' before the draft?  Once again who is to say that he graded Watson unfavorably when it is once again plausible we were set on moving back.  As the season wore on and Hue became more and more publicly dissatisfied with the hand he was being dealt I think it became more evident he did not get the QBs he wanted.  The AJ McCarron trade fiasco, a move that seemed totally desperate, short sighted, and fueled by Hue's desire to have literally anybody else behind center is evidence that he was being compliant to this point.  Things heated up to a fever pitch when our offense was an absolute disaster, and Hue likely placed all that blame on Sashi.  It seems implausible to me, like you pointed out, that Jimmy would have chosen to keep the guy who created the mess at QB.  I don't think Hue being a reputable "QB guru" before we hired him provides anywhere close to convincing evidence he pulled the strings on personnel at the position in the face of all the evidence otherwise.

 

[DawgX]

59 minutes ago, carl_sjunior said:

 

Do you guys enjoy this god awful photoshop of our next QB?

I was reading today about how people that aren't around Rosen every day would think he was a brash jackass that questions every thing, but Tony Dungy was sourced in the article saying that that is exactly how Peyton Manning was,  that he would question everything, but only because he wanted to know why to do everything. And Matt Ryan is very similar as well. So I'm kind of feeling like Rosen is the safe pick here. I'm giving him a lot more thought. 

If Rosen is fine with playing for us, then I'd be more than happy to have him on the Browns. Darnold might have more upside, but I think Rosen is probably the safest of all of the QBs and still has the potential to be one of the best in the league.

[Aztec Hammer]

1 hour ago, carl_sjunior said:

 

Do you guys enjoy this god awful photoshop of our next QB?

I was reading today about how people that aren't around Rosen every day would think he was a brash jackass that questions every thing, but Tony Dungy was sourced in the article saying that that is exactly how Peyton Manning was,  that he would question everything, but only because he wanted to know why to do everything. And Matt Ryan is very similar as well. So I'm kind of feeling like Rosen is the safe pick here. I'm giving him a lot more thought. 

I had the brightness turned down on my phone. I thought it was Brandon Weeden.

Nightmare.

[bruceb]

2 hours ago, DawgX said:

If Rosen is fine with playing for us, then I'd be more than happy to have him on the Browns. Darnold might have more upside, but I think Rosen is probably the safest of all of the QBs and still has the potential to be one of the best in the league.

You are in the bargaining stage of dealing with grief already for crying out loud.

I am not settling for any pick other than Darnold and will consider this organization hopeless if they pick anyone else.

I do want want the safest pick; I want the best pick.

 

[bruceb]

21 hours ago, Fatgerman said:

Funny thing is: if you get into the history of it, public executions was, like, the best show in town...until folks got soft about 100 years back. Ask @bruceb about it. He was there.

Public executions were the best.

We still alive always were the winners!

[bruceb]

21 hours ago, Fatgerman said:

I like internet bullying. Makes me feel tough, like a big man. 

Besides, Bruce loves me. Im like the fat-slob he never wanted, but got stuck with in a bad custody agreement.

Nope, that is my wife.

[Kiwibrown]

58 minutes ago, bruceb said:

Nope, that is my wife.

Dang.

[DawgX]

10 hours ago, bruceb said:

You are in the bargaining stage of dealing with grief already for crying out loud.

I am not settling for any pick other than Darnold and will consider this organization hopeless if they pick anyone else.

I do want want the safest pick; I want the best pick.

 

Na. There was actually a point in time where I preferred Rosen to Darnold, and then I eventually hopped on the Darnold bandwagon. No doubt I'd prefer Darnold, but I won't be mad if it's Rosen who ends up being the pick. And it's not like Rosen has some super low ceiling; he still has the potential to be a top 5-10 QB in the league, IMO.

[dawgdish]

15 hours ago, carl_sjunior said:

I was reading today about how people that aren't around Rosen every day would think he was a brash jackass that questions every thing, but Tony Dungy was sourced in the article saying that that is exactly how Peyton Manning was,  that he would question everything, but only because he wanted to know why to do everything. And Matt Ryan is very similar as well. So I'm kind of feeling like Rosen is the safe pick here. I'm giving him a lot more thought. 

I think Rosen will be able to dispel the attitude questions in interviews, and is certainly in the top QB conversation. His injuries are the one thing that worry me. I'm not on the "he's rich so doesn't care about football" wagon at all, but the fact is he's by all accounts very smart, and another concussion or two may get him seriously considering his future, which is secure with or without football. More and more young players are walking away from the game for health reasons, I don't know if I roll the dice on this possibility for our (hopefully) QBOTF

[CBrownsman]

27 minutes ago, dawgdish said:

I think Rosen will be able to dispel the attitude questions in interviews, and is certainly in the top QB conversation. His injuries are the one thing that worry me. I'm not on the "he's rich so doesn't care about football" wagon at all, but the fact is he's by all accounts very smart, and another concussion or two may get him seriously considering his future, which is secure with or without football. More and more young players are walking away from the game for health reasons, I don't know if I roll the dice on this possibility for our (hopefully) QBOTF

I agree that his injuries are a concern, but I still think he is a pretty safe pick as a starting QB in the NFL.

The only reason I don't like him #1 to us is because Sam Darnold is available.

Where Josh Rosen has been playing the position since he was a kid, and "The Rosen One" since middle school, his Mechanics are GREAT.  That being said what he would have to improve is decision making which is MUCH harder to improve than a simple mechanical fix.  Darnold was really only a QB his Sr year of HS, and for 2 years in College.  He has a lot to learn about footwork and mechanics.  I feel like the more comfortable he gets in the QB position, the better he is going to be, where Rosen has already peaked with comfort at the position.

So I worry about how high a ceiling Rosen has but his floor is VERY high.

But like I said, I wouldn't take him, because Darnold is there...

 

[REBEL65]

On ‎3‎/‎9‎/‎2018 at 10:20 AM, CBrownsman said:

I agree that his injuries are a concern, but I still think he is a pretty safe pick as a starting QB in the NFL.

The only reason I don't like him #1 to us is because Sam Darnold is available.

Where Josh Rosen has been playing the position since he was a kid, and "The Rosen One" since middle school, his Mechanics are GREAT.  That being said what he would have to improve is decision making which is MUCH harder to improve than a simple mechanical fix.  Darnold was really only a QB his Sr year of HS, and for 2 years in College.  He has a lot to learn about footwork and mechanics.  I feel like the more comfortable he gets in the QB position, the better he is going to be, where Rosen has already peaked with comfort at the position.

So I worry about how high a ceiling Rosen has but his floor is VERY high.

But like I said, I wouldn't take him, because Darnold is there...

 

Sam Darnold is the next coming of Ryan Leaf

[bruceb]

12 minutes ago, REBEL65 said:

Sam Darnold is the next coming of Ryan Leaf

Okay.

You have facts or even opinions to support this, yes?