VikeManDan Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 15 minutes ago, wcblack34 said: Let's list the number of teams who have won a Super Bowl while paying their QB 15% of their salary cap. Ready? Here we go: That's the list. None. Zip. Zero. Nada. Guess we better just throw in the towel. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swede700 Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 (edited) 21 minutes ago, wcblack34 said: Let's list the number of teams who have won a Super Bowl while paying their QB 15% of their salary cap. Ready? Here we go: That's the list. None. Zip. Zero. Nada. He's actually only counting about 12.5-13% this year...which is right around Peyton Manning's cap percentage on the Broncos in 2015-16. It will move to 15% next season, but the inflation of QB costs has skyrocketed over the past few years, so really it's only a matter of time where that "list" will grow. What better place to start that then in Minnesota? I'm sorry that it appears you've already given up. I choose not to. Edited December 12, 2018 by swede700 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swede700 Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 It should also be noted that Drew Brees next season will count nearly 18% of the Saints cap...and I think they have a pretty decent shot of making the Super Bowl. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingsrule Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 27 minutes ago, VikeManDan said: Guess we better just throw in the towel. I think this just stresses the urgency to find Cousins replacement and hope you can get comparable or better play on a rookie contract. I think you've got to build up the OL and find spots on defense to start bringing in young talent for the future in the 2019 draft, and go all in for a QB in the 2020 draft. Follow the Chiefs model in how they got Mahomes. Compete as a playoff team with an average QB with a line of sight to building the future which requires a major trade up into the top 10. The rookie would then sit for a year with no pressure while Cousins walks in 2021, netting us a third round comp pick. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VikeManDan Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 (edited) 2 minutes ago, vikingsrule said: I think you've got to build up the OL and find spots on defense to start bringing in young talent for the future in the 2019 draft, and go all in for a QB in the 2020 draft. Follow the Chiefs model in how they got Mahomes. Compete as a playoff team with an average QB with a line of sight to building the future which requires a major trade up into the top 10. The rookie would then sit for a year with no pressure while Cousins walks in 2021, netting us a third round comp pick. I could get behind this plan. *I'm not ready to throw in the towel 13 games into the Cousins experiment but I understand the logic outlined above. Edited December 12, 2018 by VikeManDan * Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swede700 Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 12 minutes ago, vikingsrule said: I think this just stresses the urgency to find Cousins replacement and hope you can get comparable or better play on a rookie contract. I think you've got to build up the OL and find spots on defense to start bringing in young talent for the future in the 2019 draft, and go all in for a QB in the 2020 draft. Follow the Chiefs model in how they got Mahomes. Compete as a playoff team with an average QB with a line of sight to building the future which requires a major trade up into the top 10. The rookie would then sit for a year with no pressure while Cousins walks in 2021, netting us a third round comp pick. That is fair...it would just depend upon whether that guy is available in 2020. Tanner Morgan, anyone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klomp Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 1 hour ago, wcblack34 said: Let's list the number of teams who have won a Super Bowl while paying their QB 15% of their salary cap. Ready? Here we go: That's the list. None. Zip. Zero. Nada. We are in a different place than most teams, because we've filled up most of the rest of the roster before addressing the QB position. If we can find a way to fix the OL and still keep most everyone else, I think this could be the team that could change that stat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wcblack34 Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 8 minutes ago, Klomp said: We are in a different place than most teams, because we've filled up most of the rest of the roster before addressing the QB position. If we can find a way to fix the OL and still keep most everyone else, I think this could be the team that could change that stat. Richardson, Barr, Waynes. Thielen’s impending payday. Weatherly is playing himself into a new contract sooner rather than later. Still need to improve the OL. The cracks are there. I also think we can all agree that Cousins isn’t in the same stratosphere as Manning and Brees. Even in Manning’s final season, he made better decisions and understood the game far better than Cousins. Brees can elevate those around him. Cousins needs people to elevate him. Until the QB payscale gets corrected, the Wilson, Wentz, Mahomes rookie contract model is going to be the way to go. Overpaying for mediocrity is NEVER a good idea. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolmonite26 Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 5 hours ago, wcblack34 said: Until the QB payscale gets corrected, the Wilson, Wentz, Mahomes rookie contract model is going to be the way to go. Overpaying for mediocrity is NEVER a good idea. 1000 times this! The current structure of the cap rules and the contract demands of QBs, where every year they're signing a record breaking deal, serves to really hinder the range of outcomes for how to win. Which is essentially: 1) catch lightning in a bottle with a elite defense ala the 2015(?) Broncos. 2) have an elite QB on an outdated contract I.e. Rivers, Brady, Ryan, Luck. 3) or win the lottery with a rookie contact QB ala the Eagles and potentially the Chiefs. Thus why I said the current system is broken and the league needs to find a better where to properly value and compensate QBs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cearbhall Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 (edited) 5 hours ago, Dolmonite26 said: Thus why I said the current system is broken and the league needs to find a better where to properly value and compensate QBs. I don't think it is the salary cap system that is broken. Each team is free to value QB or any other positions however they see fit. Perhaps how certain teams value certain positions is wrong. I kind of like the NFL's salary cap system and revenue sharing. It does a better job of giving all teams as close to an equal shot of winning than the other major sports. IMO, some of them have broken systems. Outside the salary cap system I am one of the "ancients" that liked football the way football was back when it was actually football. The league certainly has tilted the rules to favor offense and the passing game. Maybe the system is broken there but it is hard to argue with the results. The younger generations like the wild pinball action of nonstop scoring. I try to adjust. I would prefer a set of rules (system) that makes winning not so QB dependent. In the current NFL it is hard to win without going pass crazy compared to the days when the football that was played was still actually football. I try not to get too possessive with what I personally think about this. Football was never something that I owned. It is a different game now. Sometimes that feels sad but it is what it is. Us ancients need to learn to adjust with the times. I just wish they made TVs with knobs on them still so I could control the thing when the remote gets lost and channel changes were as fast as I could twist my wrist. All the newfangled gadgets offer some convenience but not always worth all the hassle. I started carrying a phone in my pocket four or five years ago. It does some nice things but it sure is annoying too. Modern football is kind of like that too. Edited December 13, 2018 by Cearbhall 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vikes_Bolts1228 Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 (edited) 9 hours ago, wcblack34 said: The Wilson, Wentz, Mahomes rookie contract model is going to be the way to go. QBs with a rookie contract that can legit help a team over-come the hump to the Super Bowl are far and few between. It's not a "way to go" it's more of a thing you back/luck into. Usually after years of sucking enough to get a top pick to select one of those QBs (Goff-1st, Wentz-2nd, Mahomes-10th) It's easy to look at Wentz/Wilson/Mahomes/Goff and say "Yep, that's how you do it" but we all know the history of drafting QBs in the NFL. Edited December 13, 2018 by Vikes_Bolts1228 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cearbhall Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 31 minutes ago, Vikes_Bolts1228 said: QBs with a rookie contract that can legit help a team over-come the hump to the Super Bowl are far and few between. It's not a "way to go" it's more of a thing you back/luck into. Usually after years of sucking enough to get a top pick to select one of those QBs (Goff-1st, Wentz-2nd, Mahomes-10th) It's easy to look at Wentz/Wilson/Mahomes/Goff and say "Yep, that's how you do it" but we all know the history of drafting QBs in the NFL. I agree that a team cannot rely on getting a QB in the draft that would make them playoff competitive. I do, however, favor bringing in a rookie QB every year. You can't be lucky if you never put yourself in position to be lucky. But yeah, until fortune favors you there has to be a viable starter on the team. Assuming that is a reasonable option it is going to cost around $20M per year nowadays. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vikes_Bolts1228 Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 9 minutes ago, Cearbhall said: I agree that a team cannot rely on getting a QB in the draft that would make them playoff competitive. I do, however, favor bringing in a rookie QB every year. You can't be lucky if you never put yourself in position to be lucky. But yeah, until fortune favors you there has to be a viable starter on the team. Assuming that is a reasonable option it is going to cost around $20M per year nowadays. Oh I agree. I wouldn't say "every year" but every 2-3 years seems a bit more realistic. Vikes are about due. I'm not saying use a 1st or 2nd but try and strike gold in the 3rd or 4th and, at minimum maybe you get a back-up QB. EVERY team in the NFL wishes they could pay a 24 year old QB $4.5 million/year and he performs like an MVP like a Wentz or Mahomes or even a guy like Goff who might be just outside the top-10. It's not necessarily a ground breaking strategy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heimdallr Posted December 13, 2018 Author Share Posted December 13, 2018 Am I the only one who has not forgotten how futile it is to play without an above average QB? you either pay your QB or hope you win the lottery and find a rookie that is elite within their first few years while also having the rest of your roster ready at the same time. Cousins isn’t Brady, but he gives you a shot, which is better than most of the league, and better than we have had in 40+ years (outside of Favre’s one good year) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolmonite26 Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 5 minutes ago, Heimdallr said: Cousins isn’t Brady, but he gives you a shot, Cept not really Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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