bruceb Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 12 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said: fify Actually, we would have to pick one of them, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hornbybrown Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 5 hours ago, matt27j said: You turn on the tape and Darnold is non-traditional if not goofy. You wonder why is he moving there, why here why not doing this or that. Then he contorts his body, makes a few guys miss, drops it in over and under a few defenders in the middle and pretty much always keep the sideline throws in-bounds and most of the time very accurate. I mean he does this stuff routinely. One game they were gettin beat down he moved the ball and scored by checking it down and running. That's what you gotta do sometimes. He does what he has to do to win. He's not going be the best numbers guy but he'll win games and the team. He elevates those around him. These other QB's their mastery of a system or godly physical tools are why they are being considered. Darnold has got here on instinct, grit, and just lettin the ball go. Take that, refine it a bit, and you got one of the top QBs in the league. Then he throws a horrible INT straight on the numbers of the defender, then he fumbles the ball Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aztec Hammer Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 10 minutes ago, hornbybrown said: Then he throws a horrible INT straight on the numbers of the defender, then he fumbles the ball Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt27j Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 As long as he puts points on the board and the team wins it doesnt really matter. Despite all those to's still won a ton of games despite not having a great team around him... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruceb Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 3 minutes ago, matt27j said: As long as he puts points on the board and the team wins it doesnt really matter. Despite all those to's still won a ton of games despite not having a great team around him... And it doubly doesn't matter because he will just get better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aztec Hammer Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 Bad decisions, forced balls and not seeing a defender are staples of the college quarterback prospect, no matter the year. We all know the names... Manning x2, Ryan, Watson, Garoppolo, Luck, Stafford, Goff, Winston, Wentz (on a per throw basis) etc. The list goes on. Rosen and Darnold have identical interception numbers. They are still seen as #1 overall quality for a reason. Just as most of the names above also were. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheeRealDeal Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 3 hours ago, Thomas5737 said: Darnold won't be a plus athlete at QB after a few years. Most rookies have a little more juice in their step and he will be the same but he is probably an average athlete at the NFL level for QBs. I think Darnold will be the best stat accumulator, of course you can win with those guys so it isn't a bad thing. Allen seems more like Flacco. Great on a good day but a below average NFL QB. Mayfield probably will be the most accurate but he will need to be more aggressive in the NFL. I think Rosen can be better than Cutler but Cutler had an extremely high ceiling he just never reached it. I think Rosen will be Matt Ryan level, around a top 10 QB depending on his situation. If I could put any of the 4 in the Saints offense in place of Brees, Allen would be last by a good margin. In fact I don't know if there is an NFL offense that I would take Allen ahead of any of the other three, but we'll see what happens I've been wrong before. Cutler had an extremely high ceiling but failed to reach it because of many of the same flaws I see in Rosen and no I'm not talking about him supposedly having an abrasive personality that just happens to line up as well. Rosen is far and away the move gifted QB in the class in terms of mechanics, form and mental understanding of the game. It is his situational failures that will cause him to bust. He is way too aware of the moment and when the situation is more difficult Rosen tends to be at his worst. If I saw it once or twice it wouldn't even be a thought but I repeatedly witnessed it for 3 years and at that point it becomes character. The greatest player in any sport never get sucked into the moment or any given game more than another. They have the ability to perform at a high level more consistently because there really are no big moments to them. No match up or special game is bigger than the next once they start to compete. Josh Rosen lacks that mental ability. He senses pressure and tries to win the moment instead of just playing. I see that as a crippling characteristic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas5737 Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 1 minute ago, TheeRealDeal said: Cutler had an extremely high ceiling but failed to reach it because of many of the same flaws I see in Rosen and no I'm not talking about him supposedly having an abrasive personality that just happens to line up as well. Rosen is far and away the move gifted QB in the class in terms of mechanics, form and mental understanding of the game. It is his situational failures that will cause him to bust. He is way too aware of the moment and when the situation is more difficult Rosen tends to be at his worst. If I saw it once or twice it wouldn't even be a thought but I repeatedly witnessed it for 3 years and at that point it becomes character. The greatest player in any sport never get sucked into the moment or any given game more than another. They have the ability to perform at a high level more consistently because there really are no big moments to them. No match up or special game is bigger than the next once they start to compete. Josh Rosen lacks that mental ability. He senses pressure and tries to win the moment instead of just playing. I see that as a crippling characteristic. Yeah I've often wondered whether it is just handling the pressure of a big game better or just not caring as much and just going out there and doing your job. It seems like you'd want to have a QB who lives and breathes for his team but that would put a lot of pressure on him in those big games. If he looked at it as a job and prepared like a professional even though he didn't care nearly as much about the team results at the end of the day it may be better for the team because it would be easier to keep an even keel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dawgattack Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 8 minutes ago, Aztec Hammer said: Bad decisions, forced balls and not seeing a defender are staples of the college quarterback prospect, no matter the year. We all know the names... Manning x2, Ryan, Watson, Garoppolo, Luck, Stafford, Goff, Winston, Wentz (on a per throw basis) etc. The list goes on. Kizer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruceb Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 5 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said: Yeah I've often wondered whether it is just handling the pressure of a big game better or just not caring as much and just going out there and doing your job. It seems like you'd want to have a QB who lives and breathes for his team but that would put a lot of pressure on him in those big games. If he looked at it as a job and prepared like a professional even though he didn't care nearly as much about the team results at the end of the day it may be better for the team because it would be easier to keep an even keel. A guy named Jim Collins wrote some top notch books about what separates winning companies from losing companies. One of his key tenets is: The Genius of the "AND" It is quite possible that there is a QB in this draft that "lives and breathes" for his team AND sublimates that to his understanding of his job to drive his performance. His name is Sam Darnold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtmmike Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 Best prospect at qb sense luck shows his stuff can you sat hello 30,000,000 dollars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonanza23 Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 Most would just statistically pass this off as an incompletion (which it is but there’s so much more to the realities): Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruceb Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 The way he drops (vs. forces) throws into what otherwise looks like pretty good coverage...his touch and placement sometimes are amazing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonanza23 Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 9 hours ago, TheeRealDeal said: Before I even say what I am going to say I want to make it very clear Josh Allen is my 3rd ranked QB BEHIND Sam Darnold while Baker Mayfield is my #1 and has been for over a month now. With that said I believe this board and fans in general have got to the point where Sam Darnold is incredibly overrated and Josh Allen is incredibly underrated. I have studied Josh Allen more than any QB in this class because the guy is an unreal physical specimen and when he is on there is no QB prospect past or present that even remotely compared to him(At least in my day. I am not old enough to remember John Elway the prospect). Anyway in all the hours of watch Josh Allen I have come to the conclusion that he is in fact 100% correctable through coaching. His inaccuracies are completely and totally on mechanics. It is not even just that he had bad mechanics it is that he is highly inconsistent in those mechanics as well which leads me to believe he has never had very good coaching in those areas. One play he will have too wide of a throwing base and loses power bc of it. The next play he overstrides and locks the knee causing an over thrown pass. The inconsistencies in why his misses are very encouraging from a coaching stand point because it means he has not immersed himself in a bad habit that will be nearly impossible to break. What is going to help Josh Allen the absolute most is good coaching and tens of thousands of reps which means he should never see the field as a rookie. You cannot learn good mechanics and it fully sink in to you subconscious if you are also forced to go out and play. When you are out there playing especially at a new level your brain just does what it knows and you do what you have always done. When you are in a learning environment with no outside pressures the reps and corrections start to sink in a little at a time until they become second nature. Whoever drafts Josh Allen needs to sit him for an entire year and they could be getting the next great QB. Sam Darnold is wild and erratic. He makes things happen but he looks sloppy when he is doing it. He looks like someone who is constantly swimming against the current. That is not to say Darnold will not turn out to be a good QB it is just very concerning that most all the other top QBs make the same things look second nature while Darnold looks like he is working twice as hard to get the same results. Even if he becomes a successful QB I believe he will always be one that every game or so will give you those WTF moments which is another reason why the Tony Romo comparisons are so dead accurate. All that said just to let you guys know that if we do draft Josh Allen #1 I for one will not be ready to burn the city. I would actually be pretty happy and excited to see him play in 2019. Wait what? You’re just playing bad cop. Right? Please tell me I’m right. Otherwise... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtmmike Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 9 minutes ago, bruceb said: The way he drops (vs. forces) throws into what otherwise looks like pretty good coverage...his touch and placement sometimes are amazing. EXCELLENT THOUGHT can i be head of your fan club I think ofsome Darnolds problem comes from the he was almost constantly having to avoid a end then throw it over a tall dt,or linebacker this can destroy everything you worked on. Darnold will thrive with a te like njoku seems to have excellent touch down the middle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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