Eastern Conference First Round Playoff Thread

[Troy Brown]

Just now, 11sanchez11 said:

So far he has won two playoff series in three playoff trips, so not a lot?

so much more than giannis, thanks

[RandyMossIsBoss]

Can't tout Stevens for making something with nothing while also touting Tatum, Brown, Rozier and going on about the  depth of the roster. Come on gents, play by the rules.

 

 

At the end of the day Stevens is just a coach, in the NBA individual players can impact the game several magnitudes more than a coach. I will take a top 10 player over any coach in the NBA, even Pop, without hesitation. 

 

 

Not sold on Tatum quite yet. Obviously fantastic rookie but I'm not ready to say he is going to be an allstar, which brings me to Jaylen. I am more than sold on him as a future stud, he's already arguably a top 30 player and as far as I'm concerned has been the real unsung hero of the Celtics this season, more so than Al. Just love his game, two way menance.

[1ForTheThumb]

4 hours ago, Pastor Dillon said:

Boston might go to the CF and then add Kyrie Irving and Gordon Hayward in the off season.....

People seem to forget the roster turnover they had this season. Couple that will all the injuries they've dealt with...Stevens is an unbelievable coach. To say they could add Jay Wright and not skip a beat is ignorant. 

[Troy Brown]

10 minutes ago, RandyMossIsBoss said:

Can't tout Stevens for making something with nothing while also touting Tatum, Brown, Rozier and going on about the  depth of the roster. Come on gents, play by the rules.

 

 

At the end of the day Stevens is just a coach, in the NBA individual players can impact the game several magnitudes more than a coach. I will take a top 10 player over any coach in the NBA, even Pop, without hesitation. 

 

 

Not sold on Tatum quite yet. Obviously fantastic rookie but I'm not ready to say he is going to be an allstar, which brings me to Jaylen. I am more than sold on him as a future stud, he's already arguably a top 30 player and as far as I'm concerned has been the real unsung hero of the Celtics this season, more so than Al. Just love his game, two way menance.

...you don't think stevens has anything to do with the development of rozier, brown, or tatum?

[RandyMossIsBoss]

12 minutes ago, Troy Brown said:

...you don't think stevens has anything to do with the development of rozier, brown, or tatum?

Are they products of Stevens system, or great players that Ainge drafted? Let's talk logistically here for a second, what exactly can/does a coach do to develop a player and make them better? I don't mean make them look good and increase their value, I mean actually improve them as a player. Instill confidence via having good pep talks and using them correctly? Tell them what to work on? I can't think of much else. Most of these guys do a majority of their work and improvement in the offseason with their private trainers anyway. Great coaches, like Stevens, maximize their talent, but I don't buy for a second that they actually have a hand in creating that talent.

 

Should Jason Kidd get credit for Giannis? Monty Williams for AD? Doug Collins for MJ? Great players are going to be great.

 

Brad Stevens didn't make Isiah Thomas a better player. What he did do is build an offense that centered on IT and maximized his talent, while masking his defensive ineptitude. That is what great coaches can do. This in turn increased IT's value, but it did not make him a better player.... Hence why his current status as a player and his value is essentially equal to what it was pre-Boston (actually lower, but only due to the age and injuries).

 

 

Now there could be an argument made for the training staff playing a role, I mean they're the ones actually working on the players' body and skills, the things that help them become the players they are. However, I'm still of the belief that for most great talents in basketball, they would reach their end destination as a player regardless of where you put them. Will they have the same success no matter what? Earn the same recognition no matter what? No, that' where having a coach who knows how to maximize your talent comes into play, but whether you're being coached by joe schmo or Phil Jackson, you're still the same player with the same ability as far as I'm concerned. 

[1ForTheThumb]

27 minutes ago, Troy Brown said:

...you don't think stevens has anything to do with the development of rozier, brown, or tatum?

Or what he's done in prior years with marginal talent at best...

[El Ramster]

They’re product or the system. 

[RandyMossIsBoss]

3 minutes ago, 1ForTheThumb said:

Or what he's done in prior years with marginal talent at best...

I think Stevens is one of the best coaches in the NBA, precisely for that reason. Right now, he's not working with marginal talent though, and whereas it seems Troy Brown is crediting Stevens for them no longer being a team of marginal talent, I obviously disagree (not to mention, by that line of thought, shouldn't he then be to blame for there ever being marginal talent a few years into his tenure?)

[11sanchez11]

10 minutes ago, 1ForTheThumb said:

Or what he's done in prior years with marginal talent at best...

this is his 5th season in the NBA. Last year was the only year he won a playoff series. He lost in the 1st round to a team that Jeff Teague led his team in scoring and Kent Bazemore was 3rd in scoring. His playoff record before this year was 11-17. His best series win is against the Wizards, basically the same team that is going to get swept by the Raptors this year.

[1ForTheThumb]

3 minutes ago, 11sanchez11 said:

this is his 5th season in the NBA. Last year was the only year he won a playoff series. He lost in the 1st round to a team that Jeff Teague led his team in scoring and Kent Bazemore was 3rd in scoring. His playoff record before this year was 11-17. His best series win is against the Wizards, basically the same team that is going to get swept by the Raptors this year.

Lol. Look at the talent on those 2014 and 2015 Celtics team and get back to me.

[IrishGreen]

I like Tatum and brown, but I do think they’ve also benefitted from Stevens a ton. He’s that good of a coach. 

[11sanchez11]

1 minute ago, 1ForTheThumb said:

Lol. Look at the talent on those 2014 and 2015 Celtics team and get back to me.

they didn't do anything, which was my point.

"What he's done..."

I was just pointing out that he really hasn't done much of anything. Especially when he had mediocre talent.

 

[resilient part 2]

OK looks like my hypothetical, semi joke has taken off. But in all seriousness, I'll take Duncan over Pop and Giannis over Stevens. 

[resilient part 2]

2 hours ago, IrishGreen said:

I like Tatum and brown, but I do think they’ve also benefitted from Stevens a ton. He’s that good of a coach. 

Hard to argue this. But both Brown and Tatum would stand out anywhere IMO, but perhaps not as fast

[RavensTillIDie]

I was actually thinking, Brown and Tatum are only playing so well right now because they're being forced into higher usage roles with all the injuries to the team. Not to say they're bad players, but they're definitely not better than either Kyrie or Hayward at this stage of their careers. So when those two return next season, you're obviously going to see a reduction in overall production from Brown and Tatum. Therefore, could we see Boston try to offer up a package to San Antonio built around Brown, Tatum and the Lakers draft pick for Kawhi?

Kyrie/Rozier
Hayward/Smart
Kawhi/Nader
Horford/Morris
Baynes/Theis