Broncos QB Battle - Siemian it is

[Broncofan]

Any GM who would trade a 4th or better for Lynch who isn't tanking ought to have their head examined.   That's also why you have to hang on - there's no value in it.  And if he does put it together we sold at lowest possible point.  

So it's a double whammy - the return isn't justifiable now, and while unlikely any progress and we undersold by a mile - and not getting enough to really consider it a gain.  All of which says you stick it out even before you get to the development cycle argument for a minimum of 2 years.  Sucks but it is what it is.  

[iLikeDefense]

14 minutes ago, champ11 said:

https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2017/8/24/16198586/tyrod-taylor-buffalo-bills-trade-jacksonville-denver-los-angeles-rams

 

I'd trade Lynch and a 3rd to Buffalo for Taylor. 

I probably wouldn't throw in that high of a draft pick but I'd swap Lynch for Taylor. Always been a fan of his game.

[champ11]

5 minutes ago, iLikeDefense said:

I probably wouldn't throw in that high of a draft pick but I'd swap Lynch for Taylor. Always been a fan of his game.

Our third round picks w/ Elway have been: 

Henderson, Langley, Simmons, Heurmann, Schofield, Kayvon, Hillman, Irving.

There's like 1.5 starters outta that group. Gimme the starting quality QB with this team 

[BroncoBruin]

Would have liked a trade for Tyrod last year, but I actually think he'd be a downgrade from Siemian in McCoy's offense.

[champ11]

6 minutes ago, BroncoBruin said:

Would have liked a trade for Tyrod last year, but I actually think he'd be a downgrade from Siemian in McCoy's offense.

Ehhhhhh possible I guess, but he's proved to be a good NFL quarterback and Siemian hasn't done that. If Siemian doesn't take a step forward this year the offense is going to be bad again. I'd definitely feel much more comfortable going into the season with Tyrod. 

[BroncoBruin]

13 minutes ago, champ11 said:

Ehhhhhh possible I guess, but he's proved to be a good NFL quarterback and Siemian hasn't done that. If Siemian doesn't take a step forward this year the offense is going to be bad again. I'd definitely feel much more comfortable going into the season with Tyrod. 

System aside I prefer Tyrod as a player, I just don't like his fit in an offense built around quick, short throws. Prefer Siemian's short-mid accuracy, ball placement, release etc. Obviously when things break down he's a huge upgrade from Siemian, but I don't think you can build around a post-play breakdown skill set.

[champ11]

5 minutes ago, BroncoBruin said:

System aside I prefer Tyrod as a player, I just don't like his fit in an offense built around quick, short throws. Prefer Siemian's short-mid accuracy, ball placement, release etc. Obviously when things break down he's a huge upgrade from Siemian, but I don't think you can build around a post-play breakdown skill set.

IDK, statistically he's accurate. Tyrod's release is fine too. His athleticism would just be a huge added dimension with our offensive line. We'd probably actually convert 3rd and shorts too. 

Elway wouldn't consider it, but he really should. 

[jsthomp2007]

3 hours ago, iLikeDefense said:

You think anyone would be willing to trade for him, say if Siemian balls out this year and we think he's a keeper. Would we even be willing to trade him before year 3? I wonder how the staff views Kelly as a potential starting QB down the line? Next year could be a 2 way QB battle, not sure how that works or if it's even beneficial for everyone competing.

I would say trade his upside to the Jets right now!!

[1234567]

4 hours ago, AnAngryAmerican said:

This is a good point. I hear a lot of people mention Trevor is somewhat limited physically. I beg to differ. He's listed at 6'3" and 220lbs, or about the same size as Matt Ryan, who won the MVP last year. He has more than adequate arm strength, which Vance praised a few days ago, and he moves around well. Also remember that he dealt with a significant shoulder injury last year and played through it. You don't have to be of the physical stature of Cam Newton or Andrew Luck to be an effective NFL QB. Tom Brady isn't a physical marvel, in terms of his size, strength or athleticism and he's put together a pretty nice career. 

Other notable QB's and their measurables during their respective primes:

*John Elway - 6'2" 215 lbs

*Brett Favre - 6'2" 222 lbs

Joe Montana - 6'2" 202 lbs

Drew Brees - 6'0" 209 lbs

* 2 of the strongest arms in NFL history

Obviously these guys are from a different era (minus Brees) and I think that Siemian is going to be an average QB at best. But it's not because of his physical limitations. 

 

[Broncofan]

Re: Taylor easy no for 2017.  Why?  Two reasons - first he would be learning a totally new system.  Not even close to enough time to be ready.   While a guy like Bradford learned on the fly in MIN, he was suited to what they were running - he had to learn the terminology but he fit the system plus he literally learned 4 different systems while with the Rams and is credited in being a quick study.  Taylor doesn't really fit the O being put in place here nearly as well (whereas in Kubiak's play-action & rollout-heavy scheme he was a really good fit).  If we are talking March/April about bringing him in then I see the appeal.   For 2017 Siemian is the better fit given we'd need to get out of the gates quickly with 4 of our first 5 games at home.   While Taylor might be a better athlete Siemian has the advantage of knowing our system in and out now.

So with the above the 2nd issue becomes Taylor's contract - 7.5m salary this year but 16m (10M salary and 6M roster bonus) next year.  That uses up almost all of our cap space.   If BUF is on the hook for that 6M roster bonus then it's better but if not that's a big $ for a guy who may be average overall (that's still better than last year QB performance or 2015 for that matter but it kills our team finances).    If he's a difference maker it's worth considering but that's 23M we'd be throwing for a guy who likely at best upgrades us next year, but not this year given 2017 adjustment at such a late stage.  

The Bills can walk away from his contract in 2018 pretty reasonably (8m dead money out of 18m) with a straight release.    You have to think they aren't looking for a Lynch but look to be angling for one of the big 3 QB rookies in the 2018 class (doing their best to put in a bottom 5 season).   I doubt they'd sniff any Lynch offers.  

I'd be interested next year if the Bills release Taylor and we don't have our 2018 starter ID'd from this year, but not in a trade this late in the preseason.    Really it's probably Siemian or bust for 2017.   2018....totally different story if Taylor gets released (or BUF on hook for 6M of the 16M left in a trade), and Siemian has shown he's not our long-term guy & Lynch fails to show real progress. 

[champ11]

37 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

Re: Taylor easy no for 2017.  Why?  Two reasons - first he would be learning a totally new system.  Not even close to enough time to be ready.   While a guy like Bradford learned on the fly in MIN, he was suited to what they were running - he had to learn the terminology but he fit the system.  Taylor doesn't really fit the O being put in place here nearly as well (whereas in Kubiak's play-action & rollout-heavy scheme he was a really good fit).  If we are talking March/April about bringing him in then I see the appeal.   For 2017 Siemian is the better fit given we'd need to get out of the gates quickly with 4 of our first 5 games at home.   While Taylor might be a better athlete Siemian has the advantage of knowing our system in and out now.

So with the above the 2nd issue becomes Taylor's contract - 7.5m salary this year but 16m (10M salary and 6M roster bonus) next year.  That uses up almost all of our cap space.   If BUF is on the hook for that 6M roster bonus then it's better but if not that's a big $ for a guy who may be average overall (that's still better than last year QB performance or 2015 for that matter but it kills our team finances).    If he's a difference maker it's worth considering but that's 23M we'd be throwing for a guy who likely at best upgrades us next year, but not this year given 2017 adjustment at such a late stage.  

The Bills can walk away from his contract in 2018 pretty reasonably (8m dead money out of 18m) with a straight release.    You have to think they aren't looking for a Lynch but look to be angling for one of the big 3 QB rookies in the 2018 class (doing their best to put in a bottom 5 season).   I doubt they'd sniff any Lynch offers.  

I'd be interested next year if the Bills release Taylor and we don't have our 2018 starter ID'd from this year, but not in a trade this late in the preseason.    Really it's probably Siemian or bust for 2017.   2018....totally different story if Taylor gets released (or BUF on hook for 6M of the 16M left in a trade), and Siemian has shown he's not our long-term guy & Lynch fails to show real progress. 

He'd be able to learn the system in a month, imo, so I don't really agree with that point. I think he fits the system totally fine and adds a deep ball/athleticism dimension that we won't have with Siemian regardless of how well he performs this year. I'd roll the dice on having a good QB with our elite defense if Tyrod was on the table for a 2nd or 3rd round pick. 

I think the Bills are essentially tanking and Lynch would essentially be a throw in to a 2nd or 3rd round pick. They'd still take a QB, but Lynch would be worth a flier for them. 

Regardless, I don't think this will happen. And I think Siemian could play really well this year. But I think it's more likely that we miss the playoffs with a great defense because of the offense again and if Tyrod were available it would be something to pursue. 

[Broncofan]

21 minutes ago, champ11 said:

He'd be able to learn the system in a month, imo, so I don't really agree with that point. I think he fits the system totally fine and adds a deep ball/athleticism dimension that we won't have with Siemian regardless of how well he performs this year. I'd roll the dice on having a good QB with our elite defense if Tyrod was on the table for a 2nd or 3rd round pick. 

I think the Bills are essentially tanking and Lynch would essentially be a throw in to a 2nd or 3rd round pick. They'd still take a QB, but Lynch would be worth a flier for them. 

Regardless, I don't think this will happen. And I think Siemian could play really well this year. But I think it's more likely that we miss the playoffs with a great defense because of the offense again and if Tyrod were available it would be something to pursue. 

Let's say it takes a month or so - that's 2-3 games in.  With 4 out of our first 5 games at home and @BUF as the lone road game, we need a 4-1 or better start.   I get that it wouldn't take all season to learn but even 2-3 games with a less-than-familiar QB I just don't see the gain.  Plus realistically these deals don't happen overnight and the $ would make it challenging to figure out.  So not like we'd get him tomorrow.   Which I get you acknowledge but factors into my statement about it being too late in the preseason.   You take another week to get a deal done then you are into Week 4-5 before he's learned the system fully.  And so on.

It's all hypothetical anyways as you said.  But I do think Taylor will be available next year and if we don't have our long term candidate ID'd by then (Lynch failing and Siemian not progressing) Taylor becomes intriguing.  We won't get one of the big 3 draft class QB and we can forget about Stafford (DET can franchise tag him easily or extend him) / Cousins (big budget $ teams will outbid us easily).   Taylor is the type of mid level option if Siemian/Lynch aren't the 2018 answer. 

 

[jsthomp2007]

I'd do a straight trade Paxton for Sheldon Richardson...their problem for our problem.

[BroncoSojia]

What has Lynch shown to be worth anything in a trade? I mean, the UDFA from Northern Colorado we brought in has looked better than him. 

[jsthomp2007]

2 hours ago, 1234567 said:

Other notable QB's and their measurables during their respective primes:

*John Elway - 6'2" 215 lbs

*Brett Favre - 6'2" 222 lbs

Joe Montana - 6'2" 202 lbs

Drew Brees - 6'0" 209 lbs

* 2 of the strongest arms in NFL history

Obviously these guys are from a different era (minus Brees) and I think that Siemian is going to be an average QB at best. But it's not because of his physical limitations. 

 

And, Montana was the best of the bunch managing the WCO.