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Baker Mayfield No. 1

Kiwibrown

By Kiwibrown
in Cleveland Browns

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Aztec Hammer

Aztec Hammer

Posted
Posted

@LETSGOBROWNIES I don’t know how to split the quotes so I’ll do a tag instead.

On the first point: Agreed. I tried to list he positive comparisons mostly. Because I think they are sort of compliments through the side of the mouth as they sort of imply the negatives in their play at the same time.

On the system point: Definitely we need to follow the Rams, Eagles and Chiefs blueprint. It is essential. It is what it is. Baker is a system QB and it’s obvious. Now we have to make the best out of it and find a way for him to succeed in his system using his skills.

On the pass rush point: That’s true. Pass rush doesn’t help anyone. Except TB12, who it seems in recent years has decided he prefers it so that he can show off his otherworldly pocket awareness and movement. But Baker... hate to say it but almost all of the good I have seen of him comes from when he is standing there with all day and nobody near him. And pretty much all of the bad I have seen of him is when he has faced something resembling an nfl pocket and pass rush. I don’t think he knows how to deal with it. He breaks his own pocket and gets drawn towards the trouble, he gets enveloped and his lack of height really shows up where it gets congested and he cannot get a proper look downfield, he runs quickly when the pressure is real. That second half vs Georgia. Watch every play in that second half when Georgia came out from the half and shut down the ridiculous run game and gadget stuff. He could hardly complete a pass. Some guy sacks in there. An ugly pick. Running immediately at the first sense of pressure. Outside of that TD pass (which did have a touch of Wilson to it, in fairness), it was downright ugly.

When I watch Kansas State games or any big 12 game of his, I just think this is nothing like what the nfl is. It’s a glorified scrimmage.

It’s frustrating that we passed on the bigger dude in Darnold who is more suited to the pro game, at least as functionally athletic, a special anticipatory thrower, and the guy with a ton more experience of how to navigate muddy pockets and make bucket throws with rushers around and bearing down on him. And with leadership and clutchness at the college level just as good as Baker but just not as rah rah.

And Rosen too, who I think is a much better QB but I recognise the worry about the fit.

In pro terms, I feel like we passed on a guy who is bigger and better and can play in any system for an undersized guy that needs a system.

#1 pick overall, it’s frustrating. Feels like something only the Browns would do.

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candyman93

candyman93

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I don’t see why we can’t have similar success to what Buffalo had last year. They made the playoffs and fought hard against Jacksonville despite having a bad defense (statistically) and a bunch of JAGs offensively. Maybe I am just overly optimistic of Tyrod next year.

 

 

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NateDawg

NateDawg

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Yeah, while I get the Russ/Brees comparisons, they’re also slightly ridiculous. Drew Brees is a HOF QB and top 5 statistical QB of all time. Russell Wilson is an annual pro bowl QB. These are exceptions. You dang just pick out two smaller QBs and say that’s Baker Mayfield. All these dudes have different traits, positive and negative. I’m hoping that in terms of production, Baker develops into one of those outliers.

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LETSGOBROWNIES

LETSGOBROWNIES

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2 minutes ago, Aztec Hammer said:

@LETSGOBROWNIES I don’t know how to split the quotes so I’ll do a tag instead.

What a loser ?. Just hit enter twice quickly where you want it to split. ;)

2 minutes ago, Aztec Hammer said:

On the first point: Agreed. I tried to list he positive comparisons mostly. Because I think they are sort of compliments through the side of the mouth as they sort of imply the negatives in their play at the same time.

On the system point: Definitely we need to follow the Rams, Eagles and Chiefs blueprint. It is essential. It is what it is. Baker is a system QB and it’s obvious. Now we have to make the best out of it and find a way for him to succeed in his system using his skills.

Aren’t all QB’s “system QB’s” to a point though?  Cam was. Goff too.  All these rookies have strengths that need accentuated and weaknesses that need hidden.  That’s what coaching is for.  Hopefully Haley > Hue.

2 minutes ago, Aztec Hammer said:

On the pass rush point: That’s true. Pass rush doesn’t help anyone. Except TB12, who it seems in recent years has decided he prefers it so that he can show off his otherworldly pocket awareness and movement. But Baker... hate to say it but almost all of the good I have seen of him comes from when he is standing there with all day and nobody near him. And pretty much all of the bad I have seen of him is when he has faced something resembling an nfl pocket and pass rush. I don’t think he knows how to deal with it. He breaks his own pocket and gets drawn towards the trouble, he gets enveloped and his lack of height really shows up where it gets congested and he cannot get a proper look downfield, he runs quickly when the pressure is real. That second half vs Georgia. Watch every play in that second half when Georgia came out from the half and shut down the ridiculous run game and gadget stuff. He could hardly complete a pass. Some guy sacks in there. An ugly pick. Running immediately at the first sense of pressure. Outside of that TD pass (which did have a touch of Wilson to it, in fairness), it was downright ugly.

From PFF, for what that’s worth.

https://www.diehards.com/oklahoma/baker-mayfield-pro-football-focus-oklahoma-sooners-2

2 minutes ago, Aztec Hammer said:

When I watch Kansas State games or any big 12 game of his, I just think this is nothing like what the nfl is. It’s a glorified scrimmage.

Who played great opponents every week though?

2 minutes ago, Aztec Hammer said:

It’s frustrating that we passed on the bigger dude in Darnold who is more suited to the pro game, at least as functionally athletic, a special anticipatory thrower, and the guy with a ton more experience of how to navigate muddy pockets and make bucket throws with rushers around and bearing down on him. And with leadership and clutchness at the college level just as good as Baker but just not as rah rah.

Agreed, you know I loved him too.

2 minutes ago, Aztec Hammer said:

And Rosen too, who I think is a much better QB but I recognise the worry about the fit.

I’d still take Baker tbh.  Rosen has more talent, but I’m not sure about him.

2 minutes ago, Aztec Hammer said:

In pro terms, I feel like we passed on a guy who is bigger and better and can play in any system for an undersized guy that needs a system.

#1 pick overall, it’s frustrating. Feels like something only the Browns would do.

I get that.

Playing devils advocate, Sam has played 4 years of football at QB.  Not college, in total.  There were a lot of “reports” he didn’t look too hot on the white board as far as his understanding of concepts, football, etc, which is understandable for a guy so green.  But what if he never grasps those concepts at an elite level?  There’s the assumption he will, but it’s certsinly no guarantee. 

My only point is there is no sure thing, and Baker checks as many boxes as you can expect a QB to check save a once in a decade Luck/Manning/Elway type prospect.

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LETSGOBROWNIES

LETSGOBROWNIES

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16 minutes ago, Aztec Hammer said:

A million times more realistic than the Drew Brees/Russell Wilson hybrid he is touted as.

And I hope I’m wrong about that. Doubt it though.

I think he can absolutely be Russell Wilson the passer. 

He wont have his legs, but I could see him being just as good of a thrower.

And while he’s not a 4.5 runner, he’s mobile enough to use a lot of the same concepts.

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Aztec Hammer

Aztec Hammer

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5 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

I think he can absolutely be Russell Wilson the passer. 

He wont have his legs, but I could see him being just as good of a thrower.

And while he’s not a 4.5 runner, he’s mobile enough to use a lot of the same concepts.

I’d take that for sure. Feel like Wilson the passer really gets to happen in large part because of what his running threat does for him. So athletic that he can afford to take an even bigger drop because he can then move around and find that lane and use the great arm. Going to be hard to replicate that as a smaller qb without the special athleticism that Wilson has.

The “he’s Brees/Wilson hybrid” comps are outrageous. That’s argubly a Top 5 qb all time lol.

I’m guessing the real comp is something a lot more modest. Hopefully Baker can create his own example though.

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LETSGOBROWNIES

LETSGOBROWNIES

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1 minute ago, Aztec Hammer said:

I’d take that for sure. Feel like Wilson the passer really gets to happen in large part because of what his running threat does for him. So athletic that he can afford to take an even bigger drop because he can then move around and find that lane and use the great arm. Going to be hard to replicate that as a smaller qb without the special athleticism that Wilson has.

The “he’s Brees/Wilson hybrid” comps are outrageous. That’s argubly a Top 5 qb all time lol.

I’m guessing the real comp is something a lot more modest. Hopefully Baker can create his own example though.

I like the Brees and Wilson comps as ways of showing that a sub 6’3” QB can actually do everything needed to succeed, but that’s about it.

The odds of Baker being as good as Brees are as good as Rosen being as good as Brady just because they’re the same height.

Like every other player, Baker will have to find his own ways to win and succeed and it’ll be different from other QB’s.

I think if you take aspects from Keenum, Brees and Wilson you can see the template for success though.

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buno67

buno67

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I feel like he could be a Wilson/Carr hybrid. He won’t make the run plays like Wilson but just has the ability to keep passing plays alive with his ability to move in the pocket and to move the pocket in general. I know Carr is big but just the way he plays the QB seems like a way Baker can play

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LETSGOBROWNIES

LETSGOBROWNIES

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1 minute ago, buno67 said:

I feel like he could be a Wilson/Carr hybrid. He won’t make the run plays like Wilson but just has the ability to keep passing plays alive with his ability to move in the pocket and to move the pocket in general. I know Carr is big but just the way he plays the QB seems like a way Baker can play

Yeah Carr is a decent comp.

Carr is a couple inches taller, but the same weight as Mayfield.  Mayfield has a thicker build.

Carr isn’t a huge guy, but he’s big enough.  So is Baker.

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buno67

buno67

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4 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Yeah Carr is a decent comp.

Carr is a couple inches taller, but the same weight as Mayfield.  Mayfield has a thicker build.

Carr isn’t a huge guy, but he’s big enough.  So is Baker.

Dustin Fox said it best. Baker isn’t big but he is thick. A lot thicker than Johnny. Baker actually has an arse too him. He looks like a grown man, where Johnny looked like a high school kid

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