buno67 Posted April 30, 2018 Share Posted April 30, 2018 42 minutes ago, Bonanza23 said: He’s not wrong though. Too a point. It’s not like I’m a Darnold hater. I’ve defended him at times and thought about him being the pick and wanting him to be the pick but my #2 guy was Baker. I thought of it being 60/40 of 60% Darnold and 40% baker for #1 Just saying doesn’t want to give baker credit, where it seems he is blindly giving Darnold credit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aztec Hammer Posted April 30, 2018 Share Posted April 30, 2018 1 minute ago, buno67 said: Too a point. It’s not like I’m a Darnold hater. I’ve defended him at times and thought about him being the pick and wanting him to be the pick but my #2 guy was Baker. I thought of it being 60/40 of 60% Darnold and 40% baker for #1 Just saying doesn’t want to give baker credit, where it seems he is blindly giving Darnold credit No, I’ve given credit to Baker for his ability to run the scheme at a high level for OU many times. But I also can’t help that I don’t think he’s a great pro prospect and I do think Darnold is. As one of the more contrarian and devil’s advocate posters on this board, I would have thought you more than most would appreciate me sticking to my guns and not just jumping on the bandwagon with the Baker pick just because he is now a Brown. I majorly hope he succeeds, of course I do, but now that he’s a Brown, it doesn’t change that I don’t think he will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mind Character Posted April 30, 2018 Share Posted April 30, 2018 3 hours ago, Aztec Hammer said: I tried man... but I don't see it 3 hours ago, candyman93 said: I understand his stats look pretty, but it’s just pitch and catch. This is obviously an extreme example. I know man... I know.. it sucks man... I literally tried as best as possible to see it... it's just not there... His impact has to be the leader of men ... lift the play of others through fiery whatever the hell peoples' pants are tingling about... That's what we have to be banking on.... so in that regard I'll wait and see... maybe that'll be the special sauce.... There's no anticipation in his game.. none... no tight window back shoulder throws.. none... hardly any tight window throws... that's why I've been saying his offense is paint by the numbers... The way some guys speak and outwardly behave just makes some football meatheads pants stand at attention.. it happened to our detriment... We passed on the consensus best players in the draft (Saquon Barkley and Bradley Chubb).... we didn't even come away with one of those guys and our QB when we had 2 PICKS IN THE TOP 4....LOL... Celebrate and be happy about it... Dorsey and McCloughan have saved us... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mind Character Posted April 30, 2018 Share Posted April 30, 2018 1 hour ago, Thomas5737 said: Yeah we have one poster who said Darnold is mediocre (and not many can even see his posts) no one else has thrown shade on Darnold. I'll state facts but I had all three QBs bunched together, I just state facts against all of you guys who had Mayfield way way way below Darnold. Mayfield throws the passes that make up 90% of an NFL QB's passes better than Darnold. Darnold may close that gap eventually and he does have some better traits than Mayfield but to discount the majority of throws that Mayfield makes because of what they are when they are actually the majority of throws made in the NFL just seems like an agenda against him. Meanwhile any facts stated as negatives against Darnold and eye tests or some other excuses override it. Darnold wasn't a perfect prospect, not really close. Mayfield isn't either. We'll see who they become but neither were Luck or Peyton. I had Baker as my number 14th overall rated player in the draft, but Darnold and Rosen as 1 and 2, respectively... So... I liked Baker Mayfield a tremendous amount. Again, we disagree as the Vast majority of NFL throws are based on anticipation throws, throwing a WR open, back shoulder or throws put away from the defender based on anticipation and throwing instincts in a tight window. Darnold is miles ahead in this category compared to Baker... I've watched all the games the last 2 years of Baker.... I can't find more than maybe 12 throws like that.. when with Darnold there's 41.. and those 35 are WOW ... Phillip Rivers... Drew Brees, Aaron Rodgers-esque timing and anticipation throws.. .Darnold just does it naturally... Baker has to have windows generated by the RPO, play action game then he becomes a more see it throw it guy... Darnold scanned and had better vision for anticipatory throws... Where are these games where Baker is making NFL level anticipation throws? He had 2 against Iowa State, 1 against OSU in 2017... those are the obvious one's people point out, but I just don't see it.... If Baker is better than Darnold it will be because of the leader of men... emotional uplift of the organization stuff... and so in that regard I'm willing to wait and see.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonanza23 Posted April 30, 2018 Share Posted April 30, 2018 1 hour ago, buno67 said: Too a point. It’s not like I’m a Darnold hater. I’ve defended him at times and thought about him being the pick and wanting him to be the pick but my #2 guy was Baker. I thought of it being 60/40 of 60% Darnold and 40% baker for #1 Just saying doesn’t want to give baker credit, where it seems he is blindly giving Darnold credit The thing is that the Ohio State game isn’t the best example of great qb throws when we are comparing him to Darnold. Darnold made a ton of brilliant elite throws that I see nfl elite QBs make. Throws that show his natural feel for the game that can’t be taught. You can just see the system for Mayfield being showcased rather than his talent. Don’t get me wrong Mayfield had some nice PLAYS in the game when things broke down. And he DID win and Darnold did not so that counts for something. As I’ve said a dozen times in here he’s going to be good. He’s absolutely the best qb we’ve had since Couch. I’m glad that I like the top three qbs in this draft and am happy that he’s on my team. But I can’t see him being better than Darnold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas5737 Posted April 30, 2018 Share Posted April 30, 2018 1 hour ago, Mind Character said: I had Baker as my number 14th overall rated player in the draft, but Darnold and Rosen as 1 and 2, respectively... So... I liked Baker Mayfield a tremendous amount. Again, we disagree as the Vast majority of NFL throws are based on anticipation throws, throwing a WR open, back shoulder or throws put away from the defender based on anticipation and throwing instincts in a tight window. Darnold is miles ahead in this category compared to Baker... I've watched all the games the last 2 years of Baker.... I can't find more than maybe 12 throws like that.. when with Darnold there's 41.. and those 35 are WOW ... Phillip Rivers... Drew Brees, Aaron Rodgers-esque timing and anticipation throws.. .Darnold just does it naturally... Baker has to have windows generated by the RPO, play action game then he becomes a more see it throw it guy... Darnold scanned and had better vision for anticipatory throws... Where are these games where Baker is making NFL level anticipation throws? He had 2 against Iowa State, 1 against OSU in 2017... those are the obvious one's people point out, but I just don't see it.... If Baker is better than Darnold it will be because of the leader of men... emotional uplift of the organization stuff... and so in that regard I'm willing to wait and see.. I searched Drew Brees every throw and went to the first video that showed up and even though it only showed the completions it turns out he made no NFL throws. No throwing to a tightly covered receiver and letting him beat his man to get open with the ball in the air, no back shoulder throws, just mostly quick passes hitting the guy who had the best advantage in his matchup or the guy who created some separation. There is more than one way to play NFL QB. Brady and Brees don't do it the same way that Roethlisberger does. Sure they all make difficult throws at times but they don't make low percentage throws a high percentage of the time because that is too dangerous. Maybe Darnold is better at the low percentage throws but Mayfield is more of a take what the defense gives you guy whether that is behind the LOS to the back or an open tight ends in the seam. Maybe Darnold prefers to bypass the easy throws a lot, he does, and tries for the bigger play and low percentage passes. His receivers made a lot of great plays on poorly thrown balls for him. Hate on his cast all that you want but how many plays were made because the receiver adjusted his route and made a play or the defender just took himself out of the play? Quite a few. That won't bew as easy at the next level and he is going to have to alter his game to match Baker if he plans to be successful in the NFL and Baker does need to alter his a little more towards Darnold's occasionally. But watch the Brees highlight and tell me if you would call him a poor NFL prospect because of the type of throws he made? http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap3000000705011/Drew-Brees-Highlight-Every-throw-Week-2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonanza23 Posted April 30, 2018 Share Posted April 30, 2018 24 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said: I searched Drew Brees every throw and went to the first video that showed up and even though it only showed the completions it turns out he made no NFL throws. No throwing to a tightly covered receiver and letting him beat his man to get open with the ball in the air, no back shoulder throws, just mostly quick passes hitting the guy who had the best advantage in his matchup or the guy who created some separation. There is more than one way to play NFL QB. Brady and Brees don't do it the same way that Roethlisberger does. Sure they all make difficult throws at times but they don't make low percentage throws a high percentage of the time because that is too dangerous. Maybe Darnold is better at the low percentage throws but Mayfield is more of a take what the defense gives you guy whether that is behind the LOS to the back or an open tight ends in the seam. Maybe Darnold prefers to bypass the easy throws a lot, he does, and tries for the bigger play and low percentage passes. His receivers made a lot of great plays on poorly thrown balls for him. Hate on his cast all that you want but how many plays were made because the receiver adjusted his route and made a play or the defender just took himself out of the play? Quite a few. That won't bew as easy at the next level and he is going to have to alter his game to match Baker if he plans to be successful in the NFL and Baker does need to alter his a little more towards Darnold's occasionally. But watch the Brees highlight and tell me if you would call him a poor NFL prospect because of the type of throws he made?http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap3000000705011/Drew-Brees-Highlight-Every-throw-Week-2 I think I found your problem with Darnold. The one you want to watch is spelled D a r n o l d. You’re watching the one that spells his name D a r n a l d. Most of the stuff from the former isn’t accurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonanza23 Posted April 30, 2018 Share Posted April 30, 2018 36 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said: There is more than one way to play NFL QB. Brady and Brees don't do it the same way that Roethlisberger does. Sure they all make difficult throws at times but they don't make low percentage throws a high percentage of the time because that is too dangerous. Wanted to quote this part because it’s very true. I can’t lie I prefer toothlessberger over Brees. Good part of the reason why I prefer Darnold over Mayfield. I really hope we go to a west coast offense, I think Baker could thrive in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonanza23 Posted April 30, 2018 Share Posted April 30, 2018 Thought this was a pretty good video on his accuracy. One thing I noticed is you can literally hear the spin he puts on the ball when he hits the target. Also rips the paper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buno67 Posted April 30, 2018 Share Posted April 30, 2018 7 minutes ago, Bonanza23 said: Wanted to quote this part because it’s very true. I can’t lie I prefer toothlessberger over Brees. Good part of the reason why I prefer Darnold over Mayfield. I really hope we go to a west coast offense, I think Baker could thrive in it. I would take Brees over BigBen. If you swapped their defenses they had the chance to play with, Brees would have more than one Super Bowl under his belt. Brees has been let down by his defenses way too much in his career. Just look at this past playoffs. He has had more or at least the same amount of defenses finish in the bottom three then top 10. Also Brees has done all that playing with little to no running game and lacking top tier WRs outside of Thomas and Graham. Big Ben had had a top flight WR and running attack almost his entire career Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonanza23 Posted April 30, 2018 Share Posted April 30, 2018 Nice article on why Highsmith flipped from Darnold to Mayfield. Meeting these guys and interviewing them is actually a big part of the process that we unfortunately don’t get to be a part of. http://www.cantonrep.com/sports/20180430/browns-draft-one-of-dorseys-right-hand-men-explains-flip-from-darnold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mind Character Posted April 30, 2018 Share Posted April 30, 2018 19 minutes ago, Bonanza23 said: Nice article on why Highsmith flipped from Darnold to Mayfield. Meeting these guys and interviewing them is actually a big part of the process that we unfortunately don’t get to be a part of. http://www.cantonrep.com/sports/20180430/browns-draft-one-of-dorseys-right-hand-men-explains-flip-from-darnold It's what my brother in law calls the "Con-process".... some scouts think you go off of the tape exclusively as long as a prospect has no red flags, leadership, and youth... that's Darnold... Baker can light up a room... Aaron Rodgers can't to save his life... Baker's the raging fire that you can see.... Darnold's the violently boiling teapot you can't tell has fire and energy inside until it steams... if the film tells you one thing and that players the best on film, is the youngest by a mile... has quiet leadership and will develop that skill along with knowledge of the game over time ... you go with that guy... These meatheads got blinded by the feel goodness of alpha-outward leaders... it's ridiculous.. I knew HighSmith was all Baker after the combine per my b.i.l., but I had no idea he preferred Darnold based on the film. This type of stuff is even more disgusting, maddening, and ridiculous... I don't think I can read another thing... lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MistaBohmbastic Posted April 30, 2018 Share Posted April 30, 2018 @Mind Character Your ruthless certainty on this debate is bringing me down, man. You have to admit that Mayfield being better than Darnold is in the realm of possibility, and quit speaking in absolutes. You've admitted that your scouting is not always right, and yet your conviction indicates to me that you think there's zero chance you're wrong. You know I'm a Darnold guy, but I think you're underrating what Mayfield did for that offense, and how it will translate. His intelligence and coach-esque leadership is off the charts. That alone can elevate his teammates. Ability-wise, he can make all the throws. I would have liked to see him attempt those NFL throws more consistently, but we know he has the work ethic and the capability to do it. He hasn't peaked yet, his career is just getting started, and he's only going to improve with this organization. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonanza23 Posted April 30, 2018 Share Posted April 30, 2018 These guys make great points. A lot in here is why I have said I wouldn’t bet against Baker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mind Character Posted April 30, 2018 Share Posted April 30, 2018 @MistaBohmbastic I told you man... just ignore my posts b/c I''m not changing my mind. I had Baker as my 14th best player in all the draft. He's very good... but that changes nothing in my mind.. of course I and the vast majority of the scouting community could be wrong... that's why I'm still following the team. Believe what you need to and want to... I thoroughly watched the film, have been around the game all my life, and have found out what the consensus of expert scouts was based on the film alone; that is, excluding the off the field intangibles. Based on the film alone in terms of assessment of Quarterbacking traits necessary to succeed in the NFL and potentially wear a gold jacket one day (I won't go into all of them here as I've done it enough *cough cough* anticipation, field vision... *cough* etc...) Darnold was the guy BY A MILE not just for me but for approximately 85% of the scouting community.... that's a direct number approximated based on convos my b.i.l had with people all around the league. For former GMs around the league like Charlie Casserly and his polling of personnel members, that number was closer to 94% teams had Darnold by a mile. When such talent is a young phenom, 20 years old, with zero red flags, IT MAKES NO SENSE to pass on that player for preference of personality outward behavior or emotion... and is a mistake of evaluation and judgement/decision making to pass on that player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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