Kiwibrown Posted May 4, 2018 Author Share Posted May 4, 2018 28 minutes ago, DizzyDean said: Manning? Really? Manning? Now that one is way out there. I never would have thought I would have seen that one. Manning was a cerebral statue. Baker is very mobile. I think he will be great at the mental part of the game, but i am not sure that any QB will ever be able to dissect a defense pre snap as well as Manning did. If anything I am expressing the limitations of comparisons. Manning is considered the greatest qb mind. Baker is meant to be smart, but functionally they are not a like. Due to the reasons we all know. If Baker is as tough,smart, accurate, mobile, creative, leaderish, strong armed and farve like as advertised, then GOAT. But he probably isn’t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DizzyDean Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 1 hour ago, Kiwibrown said: If anything I am expressing the limitations of comparisons. Manning is considered the greatest qb mind. Baker is meant to be smart, but functionally they are not a like. Due to the reasons we all know. If Baker is as tough,smart, accurate, mobile, creative, leaderish, strong armed and farve like as advertised, then GOAT. But he probably isn’t. Gotcha, I believe that he will be great, and one of the all time greats when he calls it a career. He won't be the next Manning, he won't be the next Favre, he won't be the next Brees, he won't be the next anyone. He will be the first Baker Mayfield. There will be a lot of things that other QBs have done better when it comes to individual traits. But as a whole package, he will be amazing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mind Character Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 6 hours ago, MWil23 said: @Mind Character, the Iowa State game was atrocious with inside pressure and that game is when I officially bailed on Baker. Hopefully he figures it out. Inside pressure used to even give Tom Brady problems so I’m willing to be patient but it is a concern. It's the number 1 thing I'm going to look at with him going forward.... leader of men-ism can't fix this... I believe in Baker's work ethic, but can he acquire this skill?? History says it's not impossible but it's very difficult. Maybe.... and as long as Baker is healthy and available I'm willing to bet if it can be achieved through work ethic... he'll get it done.. But..it's just a very instinctual ability and kind of innate aspect of Quarterbacking... you either have it or you don't/ The good news is we can scheme around it to a certain extent. But it's one of the main reasons why I couldn't accept the Drew Brees or Russell Wilson comparisons as they are 2 of the best at subtle movement and the quick reset anticipation throw game in response to inside pressure... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas5737 Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 14 minutes ago, Mind Character said: It's the number 1 thing I'm going to look at with him going forward.... leader of men-ism can't fix this... I believe in Baker's work ethic, but can he acquire this skill?? History says it's not impossible but it's very difficult. Maybe.... and as long as Baker is healthy and available I'm willing to bet if it can be achieved through work ethic... he'll get it done.. But..it's just a very instinctual ability and kind of innate aspect of Quarterbacking... you either have it or you don't/ The good news is we can scheme around it to a certain extent. But it's one of the main reasons why I couldn't accept the Drew Brees or Russell Wilson comparisons as they are 2 of the best at subtle movement and the quick reset anticipation throw game in response to inside pressure... Yeah I didn't see a bad game by Mayfield vs. Iowa state. No QB is expected to do much with inside pressure which is why Aaron Donald and those types are so valuable, it isn't something that is common. Mayfield more times than not made a positive play out of it. It is certainly better than playing hero ball and turning the ball over which is one of the worst traits a QB can have in the NFL. If Mayfield fails it won't be because he can't handle inside pressure or anticipation throws, which every throw is an anticipation throw unless you are throwing to a stopped target which almost never happens. Baker just has to be willing to trust his receivers more, assuming he doesn't find the open receiver like he did in college. I'd rather he quickly make his reads and hit the open guy but if that isn't there don't play hero ball all game and end up a turnover machine. We don't need another Kizer, we need a strong armed Kessler, which I think we have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mind Character Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 14 hours ago, Thomas5737 said: eah I didn't see a bad game by Mayfield vs. Iowa state. Yeah... I never mentioned the Iowa State game in a bad light... and on this forum have posted and cited the Iowa State game as one game I point people to (I don't care about the loss) as an example of Baker at his best with anticipation throwing and pinpoint accuracy. 14 hours ago, Thomas5737 said: No QB is expected to do much with inside pressure which is why Aaron Donald and those types are so valuable, it isn't something that is common. I strongly disagree... the inside berserker immediate in a few seconds pocket collapse of Donald is exceptionally rare, but inside pocket pressure is as common as any type of pressure in the NFL. You have to realize that inside pressure is not the exclusive task of 3-techs, but also that of linebackers and more rarely safeties..... Specifically, the Ravens have what's called a Two gap inside pressure scheme... that means on every down 2 LBs fill the gap on the opposite sides of the center and the inside shade foot of the guards... The Ravens aren't the only team that does this (heard of the Steelers?). The Steelers unlike any other team in the league every year lead the lead in inside blitz sacks from the inside linebacker position. And.. it's not about sacks... especially with a short QB it's about having the pocket pushed back into one''s lap or impeding the QBs vision... This division also generates inside pressure without LB inside blitz scheming (Geno Atkins says hello)... How Baker responds to the inside of the pocket impeding on his vision and collapsing on him (not dropping his eyes, quick reset to another platform) is going to be HUGE .. many scouts have these questions about him... You have to quickly reset and move in a small box in the pocket to get to a safer throwing platform (subtle side-stepping a la Brees, Brady, etc)... Baker doesn't side step.. his eyes drop, he stops scanning downfield, and looks for the escape hatch and scrambles to get to a more comfortable and clean throwing platform outside the pocket... instead of creating a new platform within the pocket... 14 hours ago, Thomas5737 said: which every throw is an anticipation throw unless you are throwing to a stopped target which almost never happens Hilarious... lol... Absolutely not... hmmm? Why don't the scouts just say ..."Gee did you ever think all throws are anticipation throws... why are we even evaluating this"...Why in traditional scouting analysis are there specific indexes for the types of anticipation throws (boundary, back shoulder, under pressure, off script, scramble drill, tight coverage, quick scan, clear scan through heavy traffic, etc) and quality of the anticipation throw (how early before the WR declared their route to the defense was the ball thrown)... Some QBs are pick and stick and throw it when the receiver comes open or when they "clearly see the open guy" (Josh Allen, Christian Hackenberg)... the anticipation game specifically refers to being able to predict the speed and pace of a WR before they get to the terminal part of their route while simultaneously reading how defenders are moving in reacting to deliver the ball at a place where the WR will be as time progresses. Not all Anticipation throws are made the same.. there are what scouts call NFL anticipation throws ... the scale of anticipation throws ranges 1.0 to 10.0... Baker makes the 6s and 7s well... Darnold and Rosen made 8s and above... Darnold even in the 10s... 14 hours ago, Thomas5737 said: Baker just has to be willing to trust his receivers more, IMO it's not about trust it's about vision, sight, feel, and the innate ability to throw the ball in a place away from a defender before the wide receiver declares his route ... I thought Rosen and Darnold had this skill at an elite level. I think Baker is just okay at this... certainly won't count him out, but with all his snaps I'm not sure he'll ever have that high level abiltiy.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aztec Hammer Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 We will need to scheme quick decision passing, run/pass option and whatever else we can to negate pass rush and get the ball out of his hands quickly. He is a completely different Quarterback when he sees legitimate pass rush and pocket collapse. You may counter and say every QB is a different QB when they see this, but Baker really is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buno67 Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 4 hours ago, Aztec Hammer said: We will need to scheme quick decision passing, run/pass option and whatever else we can to negate pass rush and get the ball out of his hands quickly. He is a completely different Quarterback when he sees legitimate pass rush and pocket collapse. You may counter and say every QB is a different QB when they see this, but Baker really is. That should be the scheme for any young QB. Hell that should of been the game plan the entire season for Kizer. Hell I think Hue only did that a few times for him. Hopefully the browns should have one of the best interior OLs in the league this. They should be improved by having the time with one another Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BleedTheClock Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 4 hours ago, Aztec Hammer said: We will need to scheme quick decision passing, run/pass option and whatever else we can to negate pass rush and get the ball out of his hands quickly. He is a completely different Quarterback when he sees legitimate pass rush and pocket collapse. You may counter and say every QB is a different QB when they see this, but Baker really is. I've seen him improvise his way out of a rush keeping his eyes down the field and delivering a big-time throw under duress over and over and over again at Oklahoma. I consider it one of his strengths, not a weakness. Oklahoma's play action passing attack is high-risk, high-reward. The OL blocks things exactly the same as they would on a run play despite it being a pass. This means you're going to get a lot of free rushers if the DL doesn't take the bait. For example, if they play action on a zone read, the backside DE is unblocked. Will he sit like he's supposed to in the run game? Sometimes. But if he thinks it's a pass and books it for the QB, you're going to have a rough time. This happened quite frequently at Oklahoma and Baker had to improvise. I'm not sure why people expect him to be amazing in the face of immediate pressure. Tom Brady sucks when the pocket collapses around him too. Hell, everyone's chosen one (Darnold was my barely #1 QB too) is terrible in the face of pressure too. Plus he can't hold onto the football and is oblivious to the backside rush. His internal clock is broken and let to more problems than any of the QB's when it came to pressure. Baker gets the ball out hot, accurately, and has the evasive skills to buy extra time. And he doesn't stare at the rush. He's always got his eyes down the field working through progressions. Darnold was my #1 QB prospect, but Mayfield was the best in the class at throwing under duress. It's an actual stat you can find. I'm too lazy to google it, but he was far and away the most accurate and successful in the face of pressure. If anyone else wants to bite the bullet and find the article, I'd love you forever. Baker will do just fine under pressure. He needs to become more natural working from under center. That's my only real concern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt27j Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 Yeah some misinformation going on here. From what ive seen times when baker brings his eyes down is b/c guys arent getting open. As Browns fans we've gotten so use to inept interior blocking we think inside pressure is normal. I'll probably always be a little salty about passing on Darnold. He's just chill and doesn't give a crap about anything but football. True definition of a gamer. Just sub out video for football. Baker is more of a football nerd. Darnold takes risks, Baker is very cautious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mind Character Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 Todd Bowles the football robot, who's been seen smiling once in his entire pro football coaching career.... no energy... watched Sam Darnold once and did this: Good times... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
candyman93 Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 If we run the offense Philly ran, we might not need elite pass blocking o-linemen. However, they need to be elite in athleticism and run blocking. Its how most college offensives lines are with power spreads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
candyman93 Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 With questions about the o-line, I’m really glad Baker doesn’t have to start. Add another offseason of improving the offense before tossing Baker in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwibrown Posted May 5, 2018 Author Share Posted May 5, 2018 28 minutes ago, candyman93 said: With questions about the o-line, I’m really glad Baker doesn’t have to start. Add another offseason of improving the offense before tossing Baker in. 3 big contracts and 1 moderate one and 2 drafted players we shouldn’t have questions with our oline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brownie man Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 has anyone else watched Behind Baker? Just watched it pretty good stuff still crazy he didnt know for sure he would be picked number 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aztec Hammer Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 2 hours ago, brownie man said: has anyone else watched Behind Baker? Just watched it pretty good stuff still crazy he didnt know for sure he would be picked number 1 Yeah. Watched it and caught some red flags myself. The guy's a bit of an annoying prick. But also f it, he's our annoying prick now. If he's actually good, it's going to be a lot fun. Because he will wind up the opposition and their fans so much! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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